Yesterday’s car expedition and dilemma took a huge chunk out of me. Not so much the travel, but I think feeling like I was internally pitting my friends/family against each other in terms of their values.
rambling
On the one hand there’s a sort of “you middle class wimps are suckers worrying about the wrong thing” vibe from working class folks who have a long history of driving shitboxes that they kept running with mates or family doing the servicing. Higher risk tolerance to save on money upfront. More likely to buy from an auction and make it work. DIY everything as much as possible. If not then flog it off.
On the other there’s people who call that a “poverty mindset” and point out that thinking that way traps people in the same financial situation because of the false economy from cutting corners, relying on a cycle of people undervaluing their time and effort on these things (rather than on building their capacity to earn a higher income and not need to worry so much about these things). Almost as if to say “don’t end up like those suckers thinking they’re being smart - look at where they’re still at after all these years, they don’t see the bigger game”.
That’s not taking into account personality differences and everything. These are all other people that have nothing to do with each other but I find it hard to come to my own conclusion and not feel like I’m taking sides for some reason.
Anyway, the person I trust most was once in the first category but worked his way up into the second and gave me some very sound advice based not just off personal anecdotes but opportunity cost etc etc.
And the people I know in category one, I do love them to bits, but I’ve come to realise, I actually really, really don’t aspire to be them… and it feels bad to admit that even to myself.
As someone who was in category one but is now in two, here’s my take on it. Category 1 is great only if you are either mechanically handy yourself, or you know people that are. Category one people are not really taking a risk, they have a cousin/freind/inlaw who can help them do work at low or no cost if needed, only parts. So if you are not in that social situation category one is more risky, because you may have to fork out $$$ if something major breaks down.
Nothing wrong with having reliability and low running costs on your list of priorities for car selection.
Thanks, yeah I think their appetite and experience with risk is very different from mine. It’s very much like the culture I’m from and many of my extended family are like that. Nothing’s ever officially done, everyone knows a guy who knows a guy.
But tbh for an asset that has huge safety implications, I think it has a huge impact on resale value to not document regular servicing. I might trust my cousins, but how could I expect a total stranger to if my cousins can’t put their name on it? Especially as you can’t make up for missed services later…
Anyway, I definitely feel more at ease with my decision. I do want to live frugally but I’d like to be smart and realistic about where to save the money.
Well, there’s a lot of factors to consider so it’d take forever to write, but the gist of what was at stake with the conflicting advice was:
Would you rather take a chance on:
a car with full service logs but higher kms (200) and cosmetic panel damage (rear passenger door likely hit a wall corner, some scratches near wheel starting to rust, small dents, plastic flashing damaged. Doesn’t look horrendous but is noticeable).
Or a car that has lower kms (168) and no panel damage but has been listed for months with 5 price drops from 13k down to 10.5, “partial logs”, and upon inquiry seller has left country and car is being sold by family? (Family seems legit)
Both roadworthy Japanese hatches, similar age, size, features. Just need something for commuting 2x week and getting around town, occasional country drive. Likely to get more scratches and dents if my niece learns to drive in it.
what I didn't get
My working class friends thought car 1’s panel damage was a big no no and were rattling off how expensive it is to fix, insurers wouldn’t touch you (I would only ever want 3rd party anyway), resale value is trashed, you could only get scrap value, it’s so obvious the seller is trying to hide and is dreaming with the price they’ve listed it for (8700) - bearing in mind everyone expects you to negotiate down.
That’s all well and good but when it came to the second car it’s like there were zero red flags - almost like they were quick to come up with excuses as to why I’m overthinking and it’s no big deal. Especially the statement “I don’t look at logbooks” like I’m some spoiled city idiot for caring about that. I hoofed it all the way out to Gippsland assuming their vibe check could be relied on.
Well guess what, car 2’s “partial logs” had a gap from 30k to 150k… and was bought ex-auction in 2016. Who knows how many owners since, plus it wasn’t doing country miles, it had been in Bellfield before the owner left, and been parked outside under for the last 4 months. Has a new head unit but it didn’t even connect to my phone. And if we’re going on external condition it looks worse than the photos (clear coat peeling on handles, window trim paint flaking, keys look like they’ve been driven over, one is partly unusable).
I’m seriously second guessing my friends’ gut feelings now, like how could they not have seen that coming? Why were they so quick to assume #2 wouldn’t be dodgy? Wouldn’t a lack of service history be an issue with resale value too?? Apparently not…
So after having written off car 1 I’m now back to thinking maybe it isn’t so bad in the scheme of overall expenses/value. I’d rather save money by having cosmetic issues, than on a dodgy service history. I don’t care so much about scratches anyway as my niece will probably learn some driving in this. Just need it to be reliable for the next 2-3 years.
Anyway, that’s what I’ve been stewing on.
In terms of actually picking a car, there are other factors at play for me anyway (I preferred how the first car handled, it has more storage, met the owners and liked them, though it’s an unusual Honda model so parts will be more expensive). And I’d get a pre purchase inspection with any car regardless.
And I know there’s other cars out there of course. But I do want to decide soon. I’m tired of car sharing…
on paper, option 2 is the better option, right? 200k is a lot of km on anything other than a Toyota. But yeah, the “trust but verify” statement couldn’t be more applicable to buying a used car.
We brought a second hand lancer recently and honestly couldnt be happier. The guy was nice, it was a good vibe but we still had a mechanic verify his claims which all checked out.
Whatever you do, dont buy a Mazda 6 Diesel 🙃
On paper, until the lack of logs and history came up. I’m starting to be of the view that it’s not just a matter of kms but how those kms were driven. For what it’s worth, car 1 was a Honda and car 2 a Hyundai. I’m sure Hondas can go on for quite a while…
Noted re Mazda 6, I’ve seen a fair few pop up on my search. Am also avoiding anything diesel tbh
Yesterday’s car expedition and dilemma took a huge chunk out of me. Not so much the travel, but I think feeling like I was internally pitting my friends/family against each other in terms of their values.
rambling
On the one hand there’s a sort of “you middle class wimps are suckers worrying about the wrong thing” vibe from working class folks who have a long history of driving shitboxes that they kept running with mates or family doing the servicing. Higher risk tolerance to save on money upfront. More likely to buy from an auction and make it work. DIY everything as much as possible. If not then flog it off.
On the other there’s people who call that a “poverty mindset” and point out that thinking that way traps people in the same financial situation because of the false economy from cutting corners, relying on a cycle of people undervaluing their time and effort on these things (rather than on building their capacity to earn a higher income and not need to worry so much about these things). Almost as if to say “don’t end up like those suckers thinking they’re being smart - look at where they’re still at after all these years, they don’t see the bigger game”.
That’s not taking into account personality differences and everything. These are all other people that have nothing to do with each other but I find it hard to come to my own conclusion and not feel like I’m taking sides for some reason.
Anyway, the person I trust most was once in the first category but worked his way up into the second and gave me some very sound advice based not just off personal anecdotes but opportunity cost etc etc.
And the people I know in category one, I do love them to bits, but I’ve come to realise, I actually really, really don’t aspire to be them… and it feels bad to admit that even to myself.
As someone who was in category one but is now in two, here’s my take on it. Category 1 is great only if you are either mechanically handy yourself, or you know people that are. Category one people are not really taking a risk, they have a cousin/freind/inlaw who can help them do work at low or no cost if needed, only parts. So if you are not in that social situation category one is more risky, because you may have to fork out $$$ if something major breaks down. Nothing wrong with having reliability and low running costs on your list of priorities for car selection.
Thanks, yeah I think their appetite and experience with risk is very different from mine. It’s very much like the culture I’m from and many of my extended family are like that. Nothing’s ever officially done, everyone knows a guy who knows a guy.
But tbh for an asset that has huge safety implications, I think it has a huge impact on resale value to not document regular servicing. I might trust my cousins, but how could I expect a total stranger to if my cousins can’t put their name on it? Especially as you can’t make up for missed services later…
Anyway, I definitely feel more at ease with my decision. I do want to live frugally but I’d like to be smart and realistic about where to save the money.
this working class tendency of some people to keep people down has always puzzled me.
i think it’s an attitude and behaviour borne of fear, resentment and jealousy,
i just don’t get it, surely financial stability is worth so much in quality of life, being stressed about bills is a little hell
and so many people hate work, really hate any kind of effort that isn’t simple immediate gratification, it’s like work is an evil thing
another thing, sometimes people just aren’t that smart, there is no higher capacity to do anything more that what they are doing
I LOVE a good car dilemma! Feel like sharing again?
Well, there’s a lot of factors to consider so it’d take forever to write, but the gist of what was at stake with the conflicting advice was:
Would you rather take a chance on:
a car with full service logs but higher kms (200) and cosmetic panel damage (rear passenger door likely hit a wall corner, some scratches near wheel starting to rust, small dents, plastic flashing damaged. Doesn’t look horrendous but is noticeable).
Or a car that has lower kms (168) and no panel damage but has been listed for months with 5 price drops from 13k down to 10.5, “partial logs”, and upon inquiry seller has left country and car is being sold by family? (Family seems legit)
Both roadworthy Japanese hatches, similar age, size, features. Just need something for commuting 2x week and getting around town, occasional country drive. Likely to get more scratches and dents if my niece learns to drive in it.
what I didn't get
My working class friends thought car 1’s panel damage was a big no no and were rattling off how expensive it is to fix, insurers wouldn’t touch you (I would only ever want 3rd party anyway), resale value is trashed, you could only get scrap value, it’s so obvious the seller is trying to hide and is dreaming with the price they’ve listed it for (8700) - bearing in mind everyone expects you to negotiate down.
That’s all well and good but when it came to the second car it’s like there were zero red flags - almost like they were quick to come up with excuses as to why I’m overthinking and it’s no big deal. Especially the statement “I don’t look at logbooks” like I’m some spoiled city idiot for caring about that. I hoofed it all the way out to Gippsland assuming their vibe check could be relied on.
Well guess what, car 2’s “partial logs” had a gap from 30k to 150k… and was bought ex-auction in 2016. Who knows how many owners since, plus it wasn’t doing country miles, it had been in Bellfield before the owner left, and been parked outside under for the last 4 months. Has a new head unit but it didn’t even connect to my phone. And if we’re going on external condition it looks worse than the photos (clear coat peeling on handles, window trim paint flaking, keys look like they’ve been driven over, one is partly unusable).
I’m seriously second guessing my friends’ gut feelings now, like how could they not have seen that coming? Why were they so quick to assume #2 wouldn’t be dodgy? Wouldn’t a lack of service history be an issue with resale value too?? Apparently not…
So after having written off car 1 I’m now back to thinking maybe it isn’t so bad in the scheme of overall expenses/value. I’d rather save money by having cosmetic issues, than on a dodgy service history. I don’t care so much about scratches anyway as my niece will probably learn some driving in this. Just need it to be reliable for the next 2-3 years.
Anyway, that’s what I’ve been stewing on.
In terms of actually picking a car, there are other factors at play for me anyway (I preferred how the first car handled, it has more storage, met the owners and liked them, though it’s an unusual Honda model so parts will be more expensive). And I’d get a pre purchase inspection with any car regardless.
And I know there’s other cars out there of course. But I do want to decide soon. I’m tired of car sharing…
on paper, option 2 is the better option, right? 200k is a lot of km on anything other than a Toyota. But yeah, the “trust but verify” statement couldn’t be more applicable to buying a used car. We brought a second hand lancer recently and honestly couldnt be happier. The guy was nice, it was a good vibe but we still had a mechanic verify his claims which all checked out. Whatever you do, dont buy a Mazda 6 Diesel 🙃
On paper, until the lack of logs and history came up. I’m starting to be of the view that it’s not just a matter of kms but how those kms were driven. For what it’s worth, car 1 was a Honda and car 2 a Hyundai. I’m sure Hondas can go on for quite a while…
Noted re Mazda 6, I’ve seen a fair few pop up on my search. Am also avoiding anything diesel tbh