With Reddit’s changes (albeit I think more people thought it things would be more dramatic than they have been), and Twitter’s continuing shit show, alongside Facebook’s shadow of it’s shadow of its former self… do we think we’re seeing or are in the middle of the end of social media in a large sense?
Should clarify: by less savvy I mean “People who do not actively seek out social interactions online unless it is via a platform thrust under their nose as a massive zeitgeist”
I’ve been farting around on the internet since fredmail, I shall continue farting long after the corporate monoliths have died
I’ve often said that one of the worst inventions was the smart phone, but I think social media has a lot to explain for itself as well. I was discussing this with the wifey the other day, saying how Instagram seems to be one of the few that people are still actively turning to (and I guess TikTok?). Both of those platforms really blur the definition of “social” media. It doesn’t seem like they’re widely used to communicate with people they know (vaguely or otherwise), but rather give this faux connection with celebrities, causes or anything else that some people seem to deem as “important.”
I think social media is something that will inevitably have a cycle of growth and collapse. Small groups tend to attract a more creative people that want to make something new. When they are successful that attracts lots of other users and the groups grow. Once they reach a certain size the nature of the group inevitably changes. Maintenance starts to overtake creating, and as it gets bigger the content becomes primarily quick & easy content and things created by those with vested interests (advertisers etc). At that point the type of person who created the initial small site tend to be looking for somewhere else where they have room to create, and the content on the large site becomes more and more recycled content and advertising. Which means the users start to look around for something different - and find some of the things the people who have left earlier have started to create. At which point the cycle starts again.
Personally I think we’re just reaching a critical mass with the traditional way social media platforms and advertisements work. The status quo is that all these platforms spring up, get millions of potentially billions in capital from a bunch of rich people who want to be rich, the initial mandate is just “grow grow grow”, making a return isn’t relevant, as long as you can grow fast enough you keep getting more money
Then eventually you can’t do that anymore, you can’t get more funding faster than you use it. And now the rich people who gave you money initially are starting to demand it back. All your conventual lons are due back as well. So now you need to monetize. If you make your platform a paid platform, you’ll lose a lot, potentially even most, of your user base. And that would make the rich people sad. If you stay free, you need to make your money back from ads.
The issue is, no amount of money is ever enough. The rich people all want to get richer. So even once you’ve paid back your debts, you still want to make your own money too
Another key part of it is that if it’s structured like that, you will always inherently have problems keeping someone happy. Because your users are not your customer, they’re you’re product. But unlike a conventional product, your users need to be kept happy as well. It’s not like a normal product where you just chuck 'em on the shelf and you’re off to the races. If you don’t keep your products happy, they walk off the shelf and now you have nothing to sell to your customers
I’m hoping this Federation stuff will help with all that, but I do have some worries about how these servers plan on making enough money to not need to shutdown. Donations are good, but can you rely on just donations and nothing else to keep you running? I mean, look at Wikipedia. They get some funding from various organisations and have decently large cash reserves, and we’ve all seen how aggressively they beg for money
(Edit: I didn’t post this multiple times, did I? Jerboa threw a tantrum when I tried to post it)
Funding is definitely a big issue - and one reason that a small server like this one that is not focussed on growth is important. The costs of aussie zone are pretty sustainable (check in the Meta community if you want to know what it is costing), and the growth is limited by having restricted communities and being focussed on a limited population. The other server I have an account on is a lot more chaotic, had unconstrained growth and I would consider much less likely to survive long term. But it is also interesting because the person who started it is trying a participatory democracy style of running the site, which could either end up in disaster or working really well with a group of people who take ownership of what they are creating together. I predict the former but hope for the latter!
Edit: I think you only posted once, but the same thing happened to me - I thought I typed out a long post and that it had disapeared.
Raven pretty much summed it up I reckon but to add a note for a possible future here: as the fediverse grows with more trolls, bots and capitalist interests it will turn into feuds and flame wars and brigading between instances and the admins will be pulling hair trying to figure out who to stay federated with. ??
It will definitely be interesting to see what happens. I think it will be an evolutionary process - lots of different things will be tried, and only some will be successful enough to last. Aussie.zone has an advantage because not having open ability to create communities stops it growing too quickly, and the focus on Australia also makes it easier to continue as a separate group if federation turns out to be a problem.
I think social media has been on a gradual decline for a while tbh. Various platforms have done some awful things like algorithms, advertising bombardment, inciting hatred and violence, political interference, security concerns, child safety, stupid decisions from the powers that be, etc, and have ruined the experiences for users. People are right to question “the system” as it stands.
Without a serious rethink of what social media needs to be and how it can best integrate into people’s lives (unlike the constant brain-fart ideas that have morphed it into what we see today), the decline into irrelevance will only accelerate.
Exactly! There’s so many platforms (for streaming and for social media) now, that I hardly bother with any of them…I’ve simply stopped giving a damn, and prefer to put my head into the real world, haha!
The number of times my partner will say to me, “did you see what I sent you on Instagram” or some other app, and I’m like nope! Haha!
I work a lot in and on social media (unfortunately lol) so I’ve been watching the trajectory with interest. One thing I have absolutely noticed is more niche, focused spaces growing for creators. Substack for writers, for example.
I do think fb, Instagram, Twitter etc will always hang around. Like roaches in an apocalypse. They are designed to be intentionally addictive after all. But they will lose a lot of power and won’t be what they once were.
I use social media for my (unpaid) work (it’s all volunteer stuff!) So I post our articles to Twitter. But it’s been interesting. I wonder if we’ll ever move to Mastodon. Might have to ask.
It’s been interesting seeing the recent stuff that’s happened. Like there’s Mastodon as a Twitter replicate, Lemmy for Reddit, Tumblr is still Tumblr (a lot of Twitter and Reddit users migrated to Tumblr recently, it’s a lot of fun over there. We still don’t allow porn, but if it’s artistic like a photograph or in a movie it’s allowed but there are mature filters for like nusity, gore, etc).
There’s a MySpace replicate called HeySpace. It’s actually pretty cool, as someone who was on MySpace as a scene/emo kid.
But yeah it seems social media is imploding. I’m curious what the future of the Internet will be.
With Reddit’s changes (albeit I think more people thought it things would be more dramatic than they have been), and Twitter’s continuing shit show, alongside Facebook’s shadow of it’s shadow of its former self… do we think we’re seeing or are in the middle of the end of social media in a large sense?
We may be seeing the end of less savvy user, which tbh is a good thing.
Should clarify: by less savvy I mean “People who do not actively seek out social interactions online unless it is via a platform thrust under their nose as a massive zeitgeist”
I’ve been farting around on the internet since fredmail, I shall continue farting long after the corporate monoliths have died
I’ve often said that one of the worst inventions was the smart phone, but I think social media has a lot to explain for itself as well. I was discussing this with the wifey the other day, saying how Instagram seems to be one of the few that people are still actively turning to (and I guess TikTok?). Both of those platforms really blur the definition of “social” media. It doesn’t seem like they’re widely used to communicate with people they know (vaguely or otherwise), but rather give this faux connection with celebrities, causes or anything else that some people seem to deem as “important.”
seems like vaguely interactive television
I think social media is something that will inevitably have a cycle of growth and collapse. Small groups tend to attract a more creative people that want to make something new. When they are successful that attracts lots of other users and the groups grow. Once they reach a certain size the nature of the group inevitably changes. Maintenance starts to overtake creating, and as it gets bigger the content becomes primarily quick & easy content and things created by those with vested interests (advertisers etc). At that point the type of person who created the initial small site tend to be looking for somewhere else where they have room to create, and the content on the large site becomes more and more recycled content and advertising. Which means the users start to look around for something different - and find some of the things the people who have left earlier have started to create. At which point the cycle starts again.
Seeing how younger people use social media is actually quite interesting.
My kids use it to share funny crap with their friends. Pretty much what email was back in the late 90’s early 00’s.
They don’t really use for posting or communicating. Just sharing.
Their interactions with friends are video calls and meetups.
Personally I think we’re just reaching a critical mass with the traditional way social media platforms and advertisements work. The status quo is that all these platforms spring up, get millions of potentially billions in capital from a bunch of rich people who want to be rich, the initial mandate is just “grow grow grow”, making a return isn’t relevant, as long as you can grow fast enough you keep getting more money
Then eventually you can’t do that anymore, you can’t get more funding faster than you use it. And now the rich people who gave you money initially are starting to demand it back. All your conventual lons are due back as well. So now you need to monetize. If you make your platform a paid platform, you’ll lose a lot, potentially even most, of your user base. And that would make the rich people sad. If you stay free, you need to make your money back from ads.
The issue is, no amount of money is ever enough. The rich people all want to get richer. So even once you’ve paid back your debts, you still want to make your own money too
Another key part of it is that if it’s structured like that, you will always inherently have problems keeping someone happy. Because your users are not your customer, they’re you’re product. But unlike a conventional product, your users need to be kept happy as well. It’s not like a normal product where you just chuck 'em on the shelf and you’re off to the races. If you don’t keep your products happy, they walk off the shelf and now you have nothing to sell to your customers
I’m hoping this Federation stuff will help with all that, but I do have some worries about how these servers plan on making enough money to not need to shutdown. Donations are good, but can you rely on just donations and nothing else to keep you running? I mean, look at Wikipedia. They get some funding from various organisations and have decently large cash reserves, and we’ve all seen how aggressively they beg for money
(Edit: I didn’t post this multiple times, did I? Jerboa threw a tantrum when I tried to post it)
Funding is definitely a big issue - and one reason that a small server like this one that is not focussed on growth is important. The costs of aussie zone are pretty sustainable (check in the Meta community if you want to know what it is costing), and the growth is limited by having restricted communities and being focussed on a limited population. The other server I have an account on is a lot more chaotic, had unconstrained growth and I would consider much less likely to survive long term. But it is also interesting because the person who started it is trying a participatory democracy style of running the site, which could either end up in disaster or working really well with a group of people who take ownership of what they are creating together. I predict the former but hope for the latter!
Edit: I think you only posted once, but the same thing happened to me - I thought I typed out a long post and that it had disapeared.
Raven pretty much summed it up I reckon but to add a note for a possible future here: as the fediverse grows with more trolls, bots and capitalist interests it will turn into feuds and flame wars and brigading between instances and the admins will be pulling hair trying to figure out who to stay federated with. ??
It will definitely be interesting to see what happens. I think it will be an evolutionary process - lots of different things will be tried, and only some will be successful enough to last. Aussie.zone has an advantage because not having open ability to create communities stops it growing too quickly, and the focus on Australia also makes it easier to continue as a separate group if federation turns out to be a problem.
I think social media has been on a gradual decline for a while tbh. Various platforms have done some awful things like algorithms, advertising bombardment, inciting hatred and violence, political interference, security concerns, child safety, stupid decisions from the powers that be, etc, and have ruined the experiences for users. People are right to question “the system” as it stands.
Without a serious rethink of what social media needs to be and how it can best integrate into people’s lives (unlike the constant brain-fart ideas that have morphed it into what we see today), the decline into irrelevance will only accelerate.
It’s like streaming. When it was just Netfilx it was okay, now there’s too much competition for people to keep up.
Exactly! There’s so many platforms (for streaming and for social media) now, that I hardly bother with any of them…I’ve simply stopped giving a damn, and prefer to put my head into the real world, haha!
The number of times my partner will say to me, “did you see what I sent you on Instagram” or some other app, and I’m like nope! Haha!
I work a lot in and on social media (unfortunately lol) so I’ve been watching the trajectory with interest. One thing I have absolutely noticed is more niche, focused spaces growing for creators. Substack for writers, for example.
I do think fb, Instagram, Twitter etc will always hang around. Like roaches in an apocalypse. They are designed to be intentionally addictive after all. But they will lose a lot of power and won’t be what they once were.
I use social media for my (unpaid) work (it’s all volunteer stuff!) So I post our articles to Twitter. But it’s been interesting. I wonder if we’ll ever move to Mastodon. Might have to ask.
Do you think ‘like dead malls’ is a more appropriate metaphor?
It’s been interesting seeing the recent stuff that’s happened. Like there’s Mastodon as a Twitter replicate, Lemmy for Reddit, Tumblr is still Tumblr (a lot of Twitter and Reddit users migrated to Tumblr recently, it’s a lot of fun over there. We still don’t allow porn, but if it’s artistic like a photograph or in a movie it’s allowed but there are mature filters for like nusity, gore, etc).
There’s a MySpace replicate called HeySpace. It’s actually pretty cool, as someone who was on MySpace as a scene/emo kid.
But yeah it seems social media is imploding. I’m curious what the future of the Internet will be.