I went to the Carlton Gardens yesterday evening to see if I could see the comet. There was a homeless person sleeping on a stone bench, they had a pillow and blankets, their belongings in a supermarket trolley. I wondered if I would be able to do anything if I were a member of local government.
This morning I give money to a crying beggar on Bourke st mall, He seemed ashamed and kept on apologising.
Walking through the gardens again on my way home from the cbd I see more homeless, this time sleeping under trees.
What could I do? As much as I would wish it if i had the power I wouldn’t be able to help instantaneously.
I reckon so many people in gov really do want to help, they have ideas but those ideas would get shot down.
My idea. As a temp stop gap until systems are in place use old warehouses as dorms , have them fitted out as well as possible, have many social services available.
But I can hear it now. There would be people who would object. They let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
This is why I think covid was a wasted opportunity. Building / converting quarantine quarters near support services and re-purpose them for homeless and disaster (flood / fire) victims. Wouldn’t win too many votes though.
All it takes is one nutter going on a rampage, and the other inhabitants of a dorm would be adversely impacted. Also, keeping people in dorm conditions encourages theft and abuse - source : boarding school with upper middle/upper class kids (guess who the worst thieves were).
Given the instability of a lot of the homeless community - through mental health issues, substance issues, interpersonal stuff which gets so much worse when you have nothing except what you can keep safely with you - having a shared dorm setting has the potential to get really sketch really fast.
I live pretty much next door to a homeless hub in the CBD. The community garden which we so carefully planted and cared for turned into a homeless encampment because of overflow from the outreach centre…and while some of the regulars were okay if you were courteous with them, some were really, REALLY not. They trashed the place. Needles, broken glass, human waste, the lot. We had a couple of deaths in our garden, and more close calls on top of that.
None of us who had built the garden felt safe using it, and it’s only recently - having had the area cleared, fenced off so we could fix it without more rough sleepers immediately moving in, and a regular rotation of working bees now that the fence has come down - that we do.
I’ve been homeless too, and drug addicted at the time. And at the time, I would have run a mile from anything even resembling an emergency dorm. You say homelessness causes mental illness? I’d put it the other way around for 90% of people.
Sorry if I seem a bit adversarial about this, but the topic is one that I care deeply about, and I also refuse to tell myself comforting lies and indulge in nice fantasies about the actual effects in the real world. Cos I’ve seen the real thing. It ain’t pretty. And no-one’s grateful until they’re already half way back into ‘normal’ life.
Using old warehouses as dorms - you’ve just re-invented the flop-house of Victorian times! Or possibly the penny hangs. There’s damn good reason why this solution is just plain not good enough.
Fully agree with the Scandinavia solution. However, stop gaps have a horrible tendency to become permanent and this is one that I find truly horrifying.
“Some people have challenges in keeping accommodation or aggressive behaviours and sadly just having services available isn’t enough.” - from Melba’s comment.
There isn’t any good solution though - come to think of it, this fair land we live in was colonised as a way to get rid of a crazy bad urban poor situation. So let’s send them to the other side of the world so they’re NOT on our doorstep and too bad for the indigenous population.
I think there’s a huge difference between people who are homeless due to things like bad luck, domestic violence and economic circumstances; and people who have severe mental health issues, violent antisocial behaviours, debilitating drug dependence. If there was a way of separating them, then temporary basic accomodation might work for the nonviolent group? With fast track supports to get them back into housing and independence. And the remainder need to go to more specialised facilities for long term care, because it might be that they will never be well enough to live independently. But I’m sure that would be very controversial. I wish we could actually try solutions based on objective outcomes rather than political vote getter policies.
This is a great idea however I would be too scared to stay there for all the reasons outlined.
I believe in the housing first model however at the same time there has to be really robust supports and plans in place around mental health and antisocial behaviour. And probably supervision.
Some people have challenges in keeping accommodation or aggressive behaviours and sadly just having services available isn’t enough.
A lot of the time what happens is either the aggressive people get kicked out (sometimes continuing to hang around and cause further problems) or more vulnerable people sleep rough to avoid the abusive ones. Or both. Which equals a high rate of returning to rough sleeping.
Australia seriously needs to fix the mental health system and housing
Melbourne thoughts.
I went to the Carlton Gardens yesterday evening to see if I could see the comet. There was a homeless person sleeping on a stone bench, they had a pillow and blankets, their belongings in a supermarket trolley. I wondered if I would be able to do anything if I were a member of local government.
This morning I give money to a crying beggar on Bourke st mall, He seemed ashamed and kept on apologising.
Walking through the gardens again on my way home from the cbd I see more homeless, this time sleeping under trees.
What could I do? As much as I would wish it if i had the power I wouldn’t be able to help instantaneously.
I reckon so many people in gov really do want to help, they have ideas but those ideas would get shot down.
My idea. As a temp stop gap until systems are in place use old warehouses as dorms , have them fitted out as well as possible, have many social services available.
But I can hear it now. There would be people who would object. They let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
This is why I think covid was a wasted opportunity. Building / converting quarantine quarters near support services and re-purpose them for homeless and disaster (flood / fire) victims. Wouldn’t win too many votes though.
That is a good idea.
but can you imagine the outrage at dorm quarantine conditions?
All it takes is one nutter going on a rampage, and the other inhabitants of a dorm would be adversely impacted. Also, keeping people in dorm conditions encourages theft and abuse - source : boarding school with upper middle/upper class kids (guess who the worst thieves were).
Yeah.
Given the instability of a lot of the homeless community - through mental health issues, substance issues, interpersonal stuff which gets so much worse when you have nothing except what you can keep safely with you - having a shared dorm setting has the potential to get really sketch really fast.
I live pretty much next door to a homeless hub in the CBD. The community garden which we so carefully planted and cared for turned into a homeless encampment because of overflow from the outreach centre…and while some of the regulars were okay if you were courteous with them, some were really, REALLY not. They trashed the place. Needles, broken glass, human waste, the lot. We had a couple of deaths in our garden, and more close calls on top of that.
None of us who had built the garden felt safe using it, and it’s only recently - having had the area cleared, fenced off so we could fix it without more rough sleepers immediately moving in, and a regular rotation of working bees now that the fence has come down - that we do.
I don’t know what the answer is, sadly.
Homelessness causes mental illness too. So having emergency dorms would save many people from that
Please, add in the Tragedy of the Commons. It’s relevant.
I’ve been homeless too, and drug addicted at the time. And at the time, I would have run a mile from anything even resembling an emergency dorm. You say homelessness causes mental illness? I’d put it the other way around for 90% of people.
Sorry if I seem a bit adversarial about this, but the topic is one that I care deeply about, and I also refuse to tell myself comforting lies and indulge in nice fantasies about the actual effects in the real world. Cos I’ve seen the real thing. It ain’t pretty. And no-one’s grateful until they’re already half way back into ‘normal’ life.
I’ve been homeless, in large part because of the fact that I was severely mentally ill. I was homeless for a full year.
The solution you’re proposing would get wildly scary within about three weeks
Using old warehouses as dorms - you’ve just re-invented the flop-house of Victorian times! Or possibly the penny hangs. There’s damn good reason why this solution is just plain not good enough.
With services. More like military barracks than a flop house.
and AS A STOP GAP until we have something better in place.
because a dorm is better than stone bench or under a tree
ffs, how does Scandinavia do it? Let’s do that.
Fully agree with the Scandinavia solution. However, stop gaps have a horrible tendency to become permanent and this is one that I find truly horrifying.
“Some people have challenges in keeping accommodation or aggressive behaviours and sadly just having services available isn’t enough.” - from Melba’s comment.
There isn’t any good solution though - come to think of it, this fair land we live in was colonised as a way to get rid of a crazy bad urban poor situation. So let’s send them to the other side of the world so they’re NOT on our doorstep and too bad for the indigenous population.
I think there’s a huge difference between people who are homeless due to things like bad luck, domestic violence and economic circumstances; and people who have severe mental health issues, violent antisocial behaviours, debilitating drug dependence. If there was a way of separating them, then temporary basic accomodation might work for the nonviolent group? With fast track supports to get them back into housing and independence. And the remainder need to go to more specialised facilities for long term care, because it might be that they will never be well enough to live independently. But I’m sure that would be very controversial. I wish we could actually try solutions based on objective outcomes rather than political vote getter policies.
Good point.
There should be medical care for the mentally ill.
This is a great idea however I would be too scared to stay there for all the reasons outlined.
I believe in the housing first model however at the same time there has to be really robust supports and plans in place around mental health and antisocial behaviour. And probably supervision.
Some people have challenges in keeping accommodation or aggressive behaviours and sadly just having services available isn’t enough.
A lot of the time what happens is either the aggressive people get kicked out (sometimes continuing to hang around and cause further problems) or more vulnerable people sleep rough to avoid the abusive ones. Or both. Which equals a high rate of returning to rough sleeping.
Australia seriously needs to fix the mental health system and housing