Three climate activists have been fined for attempting to spray political messages on Woodside boss Meg O'Neill's home, after a Perth magistrate told the trio they had crossed a line by targeting her personally.
“Are you saying if you’re unhappy with the policies of the government it is legitimate to protest at the residence of the premier?” Magistrate Heath asked Mr Davey’s lawyer Anthony Elliott.
Small problem, would you be ok with people counter protesting at the houses of these protesters?
“Protesters are going ignored and simply we’re running out of time to act,” she said.
It’s fascinating to see how high the concern is but this is like the house being on fire and you’re running around freaking out trying to throw water on a piece of paper that happens to be nearby.
Even if all of Australia went net zero tomorrow, we’re just not that big an impact, India will add an Australia’s worth of co2 on top of its current output this year just as they have for the last 15:
imo the best course of action is to continue to reduce our own reliance on fossil fuels, far more subsidises for heat pumps/solar batteries (especially heat pumps in Victoria to get rid of gas reliance) and far more investment in renewables, we’re not the heroes of the world and we shouldn’t try to be, leave that for the big boys EU/USA/China/India
would you be ok with people counter protesting at the houses of these protesters?
No? That’s an insane false equivalency. They are not public figures by virtue of being the CEO of multibillion dollar public companies.
It’s fascinating to see how high the concern is but this is like the house being on fire and you’re running around freaking out trying to throw water on a piece of paper that happens to be nearby.
What’s your proposed solution then? We just…don’t do anything? We don’t worry about it? Not our problem?
Other countries use the lack of action by rich western nations as an excuse to not act themselves. Not to mention the amount of emissions that result from all the fossil fuels that we export to them. That’s all reflected on other countries on that graph, not against us. But it’s something we could do something about. And before you excuse it by saying “they’d buy it somewhere else”, maybe. But basic supply and demand dictates that the price would go way up if one of the two largest exporters of coal were to cease those exports, providing more incentive for other countries to switch to cleaner methods.
But anyway, that graph is highly misleading. We’re a country of 26 million people. But those 26 million use way more than their fair share of carbon dioxide. Here’s a better graph, using the same basic data source and showing the same countries.
imo the best course of action is to continue to reduce our own reliance on fossil fuels, far more subsidises for heat pumps/solar batteries (especially heat pumps in Victoria to get rid of gas reliance) and far more investment in renewables
All great ideas. Not sure what it is that you’re actually opposed to, in that case.
There has been no suggestion that these protestors were practicing, or threatening anything near vigilantism or lynching. Ot was a protest, that inder the law, crossed into intent to do criminal damage. Its probably an exorbitant description to align with the protestors.
There has been no suggestion that these protestors were practicing, or threatening anything near vigilantism or lynching
with these protesters yeah
The Disrupt Burrup Hub group members had planned to splash paint on the garage of her home, while Lane-Rose was to use a bike lock to secure herself to a gate.
They’re probably vegan and about as aggressive as a dimmer switch but not everyone will be, think about if Nazi’s decide it’s now cool to start targeting left wing business owners at their own personal homes, will they stop at just paint or take it further?
Imagine these lovely fellas show up to your house:
I’s never arguing the legality of the paint, handcuffs or the protestors. I think the Judges decision was quite fair.
I’s arguing the lack of accountability that we have when we don our ‘employee’ hats and whether thats more damaging to the public good than we have considered to date.
The language adopted around Meg O’Niel as a meer CEO, an employee of the company, therefore direct your anger at the company your perceive to be doing wrong.
But this accepted and legal separation removes so many of us from the full responsibilities of our actions. And in this case the decisions Meg O’Neil makes are an exemplary example of this. Where her actions can have huge negative consequences, but the convention is to blame the company not the person. My problem is the company is made up of people, and in that heirarchy the CEO is functionally top.
By targetting her in her personal life, the protestors have implicitly rejected the hard separation between personal and professional lives. They probably haven’t realised this themselves.
We’ve had decades of inaction on the back of nice friendly sign-holding. Our politicians and the uber-wealthy like O’Neill have kept destroying the planet regardless.
If they have their property damaged or their access inconvenienced, too fucking bad. That’s about the least they deserve. You won’t find any pity from me.
My only question, does this level of violence extend towards regular people as well?
Eg. people who go out and buy the heaviest co2 emitting yank tank they can? what about people who are using the gas the company produces to heat their hot water and can go electric but choose not to?
Is there a version of this that covers emissions per capita? Because while I agree that Australia is negligible in this picture, you need to balance it against our small population. I dislike this picture, because it breeds futility. Why should we even try to reduce our carbon footprint? We are a fart in the gale of climate change. But Australia is in the company of France and the UK here, both nations with 2-3 times our population. Yes, the vast size of our nation is a factor here, but we aren’t even trying.
The second problem with this graph is that unless we are taking carbon emissions seriously ourselves, we can’t exactly stand up on the world stage and point at China/USA/India for their actions. This issue needs to be driven by all of us. It needs to be the hot ticket issue that buys our votes. We need to be willing to elect people who will address this matter and enable us all to reduce our carbon emissions.
It’s fascinating to see how high the concern is but this is like the house being on fire and you’re running around freaking out trying to throw water on a piece of paper that happens to be nearby.
It’s worse than that. One of the biggest things the electorate wants is an increase in housing supply. Not just any housing though, we all want our 4x2’s in the suburbs. We want to produce carbon building houses in the suburbs so that we can produce carbon every day driving to and from those suburbs.
So it’s like throwing water on a paper while intentionally setting fire to another piece of paper each.
Is there a version of this that covers emissions per capita?
Here:
Not just any housing though, we all want our 4x2’s in the suburbs
Fuck that. I can’t think of anything worse. I wish we were building medium density 2–3 storey row houses and 3–4 storey apartment buildings (nice roomy apartments with 2–3 bedrooms and good amounts of spare space) as the default form of housing. Low density is so incredibly wasteful.
Thank you for providing this. It’s a depressing and not-at-all surprising picture.
I like to hope that my family is well below this figure - more like what France/UK is at. But, this website combined with some finger-in-the-air ballpark guesses said we used 17.9 tonnes last year, and that an average household used 15-20 (per this chart). Even accounting for a 2,000km road trip holiday in the past twelve months (half a tonne by itself), I can’t reconcile that we might be an above average household. 9.5 tonnes of it came from spending about $250/week on groceries - that’s not excessive for a family of four, is it? Half of our footprint is in groceries.
and that an average household used 15-20 (per this chart)
Uhh, careful now. That’s the average person. A household of 4 would multiply that number by 4!
Only, not really. It’s difficult to try to make a comparison between the per capita emissions of a country and the direct emissions by an individual. Many of the biggest emissions will not be captured by an individual’s footprint, even in a calculator attempting to capture as much as possible. It’s why the entire notion of individuals’ “carbon footprint” (a concept created specifically by BP as a way to shift blame onto individuals and stall real action on climate change) is mostly bs.
Also worth noting that this chart specifically says that land-use change is not considered. That’s a big problem with agriculture, especially beef and dairy production. Aside from the ecological and other environmental issues it creates, it also releases a lot of carbon.
Yep less of the burbs. I’ve been really captured by human scale streets and centres surrounded by houses lately.
Decentralising the car from our lives could save so much wasted energy, and therefore CO2 equivalent emissions.
I always like the idea of the Barcelona style blocks, but their cars are still more central than i think would make a more desirable neigjbourhood, for all kinds of reasons but first among them is emissions.
Used to? If you found some of the more recent ones a little too “inside baseball”, I’d recommend the latest one, about road bricks. It feels a lot more classic NJB.
Sorry, personal decision. Nothing wrong with NJB. I stopped watching youtube a couple years ago. Couldn’t deal with the algorithm always pushing me onto new creators all the time, and the constant conspiracy/rightward shift in programming the algorithm spewed up.
I think one day i might do Nebula, but i actually like watching less in general now. My jobs such that i have very high podcast listening hours, so i stay well plugged in without the videos. But also lifes busy with family, so the few hours i get per day for myself i’d rather spend more productively. Like reading and posting articles on Lemmy :p
tbh I’ve never taken that seriously, it implies that like tiny islands are contributing far more than they do, I’ve always argued that if you have a billion people your share and responsibility is a billion times higher than everyone else’s
Also because
we can’t exactly stand up on the world stage and point at China/USA/India for their actions
I don’t really think they care at all what we say tbh, COVID was proof, when push comes to shove they won’t admit to anything even if the whole world is looking at them…
Inline with:
I dislike this picture, because it breeds futility
In a lot of ways it is futile, we are a tiny island nation with 25,000,000 people vs 3,000,000,000 Chinese and Indians
and on top of that… most people don’t give a shit about the climate which you noticed:
One of the biggest things the electorate wants is an increase in housing supply. Not just any housing though, we all want our 4x2’s in the suburbs.
and even better! there are loads of people who fill out forms saying climate change is a top priority! but then the moment there’s any sort of inconvenience at all, they turn around and suddenly detest climate action, look at the amount of hate paper straws get and they don’t even have anything to do with climate change :))
And now in Queensland I have to put up with the liberal party taking us back 10 years with renewables :|
To me I’d far prefer it if those 4 people had good jobs making good money and spent it on solar installs, battery installs, EV’s, heat pumps, even donating to https://corenafund.org.au/ because the money goes directly to climate action
CORENA offers zero interest loans and technical assistance to eligible non profits for climate projects which are repaid using their energy cost savings.
I still use ecosia.org every day etc, I just think that protesting like this and blocking roads is silly when you can actually implement change yourself so effectively, just do the best that you can do, vote for climate friendly political parties and your job is 99% done
Yes.
Next question?
Small problem, would you be ok with people counter protesting at the houses of these protesters?
It’s fascinating to see how high the concern is but this is like the house being on fire and you’re running around freaking out trying to throw water on a piece of paper that happens to be nearby.
Even if all of Australia went net zero tomorrow, we’re just not that big an impact, India will add an Australia’s worth of co2 on top of its current output this year just as they have for the last 15:
imo the best course of action is to continue to reduce our own reliance on fossil fuels, far more subsidises for heat pumps/solar batteries (especially heat pumps in Victoria to get rid of gas reliance) and far more investment in renewables, we’re not the heroes of the world and we shouldn’t try to be, leave that for the big boys EU/USA/China/India
No? That’s an insane false equivalency. They are not public figures by virtue of being the CEO of multibillion dollar public companies.
What’s your proposed solution then? We just…don’t do anything? We don’t worry about it? Not our problem?
Other countries use the lack of action by rich western nations as an excuse to not act themselves. Not to mention the amount of emissions that result from all the fossil fuels that we export to them. That’s all reflected on other countries on that graph, not against us. But it’s something we could do something about. And before you excuse it by saying “they’d buy it somewhere else”, maybe. But basic supply and demand dictates that the price would go way up if one of the two largest exporters of coal were to cease those exports, providing more incentive for other countries to switch to cleaner methods.
But anyway, that graph is highly misleading. We’re a country of 26 million people. But those 26 million use way more than their fair share of carbon dioxide. Here’s a better graph, using the same basic data source and showing the same countries.
All great ideas. Not sure what it is that you’re actually opposed to, in that case.
Well now they are public figures by virtue of being prats
There’s a reason we don’t do vigilantism and lynching anymore
There has been no suggestion that these protestors were practicing, or threatening anything near vigilantism or lynching. Ot was a protest, that inder the law, crossed into intent to do criminal damage. Its probably an exorbitant description to align with the protestors.
with these protesters yeah
They’re probably vegan and about as aggressive as a dimmer switch but not everyone will be, think about if Nazi’s decide it’s now cool to start targeting left wing business owners at their own personal homes, will they stop at just paint or take it further?
Imagine these lovely fellas show up to your house:
Hundreds swarm LGBTQI protesters at MP Mark Latham’s event in Sydney https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTj5YhJC5s
No ty
I’s never arguing the legality of the paint, handcuffs or the protestors. I think the Judges decision was quite fair.
I’s arguing the lack of accountability that we have when we don our ‘employee’ hats and whether thats more damaging to the public good than we have considered to date.
The language adopted around Meg O’Niel as a meer CEO, an employee of the company, therefore direct your anger at the company your perceive to be doing wrong.
But this accepted and legal separation removes so many of us from the full responsibilities of our actions. And in this case the decisions Meg O’Neil makes are an exemplary example of this. Where her actions can have huge negative consequences, but the convention is to blame the company not the person. My problem is the company is made up of people, and in that heirarchy the CEO is functionally top.
By targetting her in her personal life, the protestors have implicitly rejected the hard separation between personal and professional lives. They probably haven’t realised this themselves.
I don’t know, i hope i’ve made myself clearer.
Ah yeah I get ya, I can see a bit of a link between what you’re saying and the old excuse “I was only following orders”
Yep, thats it. Thats where i’m at with it.
We’ve had decades of inaction on the back of nice friendly sign-holding. Our politicians and the uber-wealthy like O’Neill have kept destroying the planet regardless.
If they have their property damaged or their access inconvenienced, too fucking bad. That’s about the least they deserve. You won’t find any pity from me.
My only question, does this level of violence extend towards regular people as well?
Eg. people who go out and buy the heaviest co2 emitting yank tank they can? what about people who are using the gas the company produces to heat their hot water and can go electric but choose not to?
Where is your line drawn?
Is there a version of this that covers emissions per capita? Because while I agree that Australia is negligible in this picture, you need to balance it against our small population. I dislike this picture, because it breeds futility. Why should we even try to reduce our carbon footprint? We are a fart in the gale of climate change. But Australia is in the company of France and the UK here, both nations with 2-3 times our population. Yes, the vast size of our nation is a factor here, but we aren’t even trying.
The second problem with this graph is that unless we are taking carbon emissions seriously ourselves, we can’t exactly stand up on the world stage and point at China/USA/India for their actions. This issue needs to be driven by all of us. It needs to be the hot ticket issue that buys our votes. We need to be willing to elect people who will address this matter and enable us all to reduce our carbon emissions.
It’s worse than that. One of the biggest things the electorate wants is an increase in housing supply. Not just any housing though, we all want our 4x2’s in the suburbs. We want to produce carbon building houses in the suburbs so that we can produce carbon every day driving to and from those suburbs.
So it’s like throwing water on a paper while intentionally setting fire to another piece of paper each.
Here:
Fuck that. I can’t think of anything worse. I wish we were building medium density 2–3 storey row houses and 3–4 storey apartment buildings (nice roomy apartments with 2–3 bedrooms and good amounts of spare space) as the default form of housing. Low density is so incredibly wasteful.
Thank you for providing this. It’s a depressing and not-at-all surprising picture.
I like to hope that my family is well below this figure - more like what France/UK is at. But, this website combined with some finger-in-the-air ballpark guesses said we used 17.9 tonnes last year, and that an average household used 15-20 (per this chart). Even accounting for a 2,000km road trip holiday in the past twelve months (half a tonne by itself), I can’t reconcile that we might be an above average household. 9.5 tonnes of it came from spending about $250/week on groceries - that’s not excessive for a family of four, is it? Half of our footprint is in groceries.
Uhh, careful now. That’s the average person. A household of 4 would multiply that number by 4!
Only, not really. It’s difficult to try to make a comparison between the per capita emissions of a country and the direct emissions by an individual. Many of the biggest emissions will not be captured by an individual’s footprint, even in a calculator attempting to capture as much as possible. It’s why the entire notion of individuals’ “carbon footprint” (a concept created specifically by BP as a way to shift blame onto individuals and stall real action on climate change) is mostly bs.
Also worth noting that this chart specifically says that land-use change is not considered. That’s a big problem with agriculture, especially beef and dairy production. Aside from the ecological and other environmental issues it creates, it also releases a lot of carbon.
Yep less of the burbs. I’ve been really captured by human scale streets and centres surrounded by houses lately.
Decentralising the car from our lives could save so much wasted energy, and therefore CO2 equivalent emissions.
I always like the idea of the Barcelona style blocks, but their cars are still more central than i think would make a more desirable neigjbourhood, for all kinds of reasons but first among them is emissions.
[email protected] [email protected]
I used to like Not Just Bikes videos they were always very informative.
Used to? If you found some of the more recent ones a little too “inside baseball”, I’d recommend the latest one, about road bricks. It feels a lot more classic NJB.
Sorry, personal decision. Nothing wrong with NJB. I stopped watching youtube a couple years ago. Couldn’t deal with the algorithm always pushing me onto new creators all the time, and the constant conspiracy/rightward shift in programming the algorithm spewed up.
I think one day i might do Nebula, but i actually like watching less in general now. My jobs such that i have very high podcast listening hours, so i stay well plugged in without the videos. But also lifes busy with family, so the few hours i get per day for myself i’d rather spend more productively. Like reading and posting articles on Lemmy :p
tbh I’ve never taken that seriously, it implies that like tiny islands are contributing far more than they do, I’ve always argued that if you have a billion people your share and responsibility is a billion times higher than everyone else’s
Also because
I don’t really think they care at all what we say tbh, COVID was proof, when push comes to shove they won’t admit to anything even if the whole world is looking at them…
Inline with:
In a lot of ways it is futile, we are a tiny island nation with 25,000,000 people vs 3,000,000,000 Chinese and Indians
and on top of that… most people don’t give a shit about the climate which you noticed:
and even better! there are loads of people who fill out forms saying climate change is a top priority! but then the moment there’s any sort of inconvenience at all, they turn around and suddenly detest climate action, look at the amount of hate paper straws get and they don’t even have anything to do with climate change :))
And now in Queensland I have to put up with the liberal party taking us back 10 years with renewables :|
But… there’s still plenty of good things happening, I still thank MastoFeed.org for making running this account a pinch: https://mastodon.au/@RenewEconomyRSSFeed
Just today:
Brown coal hits new low in Victoria as wind and battery records tumble and renewables peak at 95.2 pct
https://reneweconomy.com.au/brown-coal-hits-new-low-in-victoria-as-wind-and-battery-records-tumble-and-renewables-peak-at-95-2-pct/
To me I’d far prefer it if those 4 people had good jobs making good money and spent it on solar installs, battery installs, EV’s, heat pumps, even donating to https://corenafund.org.au/ because the money goes directly to climate action
I still use ecosia.org every day etc, I just think that protesting like this and blocking roads is silly when you can actually implement change yourself so effectively, just do the best that you can do, vote for climate friendly political parties and your job is 99% done