https://sh.itjust.works/post/4274675
To this I say, no. As a community, we do not deny proven genocides, like the holocaust, or the genocide against indigenous Americans by various European colonizers, or the genocide against the Congolese by Belgium, or the Bengal famine that was carried out by the British empire. In fact, denying those genocides will get you banned, here. However: we are also aware of a tendency of nations to project their crimes onto others, and to manufacture atrocity propaganda to justify overthrowing or destroying rival governments… like Libya in 2011:
From Washington Bullets by Vijay Prashad (a great book I highly recommend)
A post from Michael Parenti regarding the destruction of Libya by NATO-backed reactionaries
A headline shortly after Libya’s destruction by NATO-backed reactionaries
The US government has been reenacting the fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf, and has been cynically leveraging the very serious accusation of genocide against its geopolitical enemies. This is the source of skepticism on Xinjiang. And this is not a new strategy, yes, the Holodomor, which everyone in the US has been taught to take seriously lately, is a nazi fabrication first spread to the United States in the works of Robert Conquest. Why would the USSR deliberately starve a fellow socialist Republic? Why would Stalin, a Georgian, have some kind of Russian chauvinist grudge against Ukrainians? Why would Lenin (Donbass), Stalin (Lviv), and Khruschev (Crimea) all expand the territory of the Ukrainian SSR while also trying to kill off the people inside of it? Why would the USSR ethnically cleanse Ukrainains while simultaneously sending food aid to the starving British colony in Bengal? Natural famines and crop failures were spun by the nazis into atrocity propaganda. Also, a state does not have to be perfect to be defended against false accuations. I think China is far from perfect, but the burden of proof is on the United States to prove its accusations (which have changed in scope several times) regarding Xinjiang. Delegations from Muslim majority nations visiting Xinjiang do not agree with the United States that there is a genocide of the Uyghur people. There is however an attempt to reeducate extremist groups like ETIM. Reeducating extremists might seem a harsh government policy, but I assure you it is a better way of dealing with religious fundamentalism than drone striking weddings or air striking hospitals like the USA did in Afghanistan.
Even Stephen Kotkin (the lib), who is a highly esteemed academic historian (professor at Princeton), said what happened in Ukraine in the 30s wasn’t genocide in his Stalin biography. The only revisionism that’s happening here is libs pretending that there is a consensus about calling it a genocide among academic historians.
All of these actions were woefully insufficient for avoiding the mass starvation in the countryside caused by his policies, in the face of challenging natural conditions. Still, these actions do not indicate that he was trying to exterminate peasants or ethnic Ukrainians.
Stalin: Waiting for Hitler, 1929-1941 by Stephen Kotkin published in October 2017 by Penguin Random House
Here’s Mark Tauger’s takedown of Applebaum’s Holodomor book:
Some might ask whether Applebaum’s writing is more accessible to “non-specialist” readers. There are many excellent writers among Slavic specialists, and a more accurate account could easily have been presented in clear and simple language. Applebaum’s writing does not “simplify” the truth, it obscures it, as discussed in this review. Red Famine thus does not fit well in the existing scholarly literature, even as “popular history.” Its interpretation resembles that of Conquest’s Harvest of Sorrow, and it does use recent published sources that provide vivid descriptions of many people’s experiences in the famine. But it leaves out too much important information, has false claims on key points, and draws unjustified conclusions on important issues based on incomplete use of sources, making it not even close to the level of genuine scholarship, like Davies and Wheatcroft’s Years of Hunger. Red Famine is better characterized by a passage from Peter Kenez’s book on The Birth of the Propaganda State: “propaganda often means telling less than the truth, misleading people … manipulating and distorting information, lying” and addresses “audiences in simple language…”
Who cares about academic historians? A bunch of woke nerds if you ask me. The EU parliament voted that the Holodomor was real and a genocide so anyone who says otherwise is denying genocide and spreading misinformation.
Even Robert Conquest amended his position after the release of the Soviet archives that the Soviet famine of the 1930s wasn’t genocide.
The chud bible:
- Horseshoe theory
- Double genocide theory
- The black book of communism
- Whataboutism
What about ism?
Why would the USSR deliberately starve a fellow socialist Republic? Why would Stalin, a Georgian, have some kind of Russian chauvinist grudge against Ukrainians? Why would Lenin (Donbass), Stalin (Lviv), and Khruschev (Crimea) all expand the territory of the Ukrainian SSR while also trying to kill off the people inside of it?
My key question: Why would Stalin stop? If the Holodomor was a deliberate attempt to genocide the Ukrainian people, it would be to my knowledge the only genocide in the history of the world where the perpetrator just randomly decided to stop the genocidal actions and never again make any attempt to restart it for the next 30 years of his life.
There are opportunistic genocides around famines (not in this case, of course) where the attempt is taken because it is easy and not pursued further when it is difficult. Britain did this multiple times around the world.
It’s funny seeing Hexbears not understand how lemmy works. It’s hilarious seeing them angry over dissent.
I wonder if they even know that the developer of lemmy, dessalines, is a communist who releases communist audiobooks on their youtube channel and did an AMA on here
If libs paid attention to where their treats were coming from they wouldn’t be libs anymore
Yes, we are well aware.
omg its you! aint you tired. thing of all the productive things you could have done with your free time.
it’s Sunday.
you have a whole catalog of of post from us. also and i dont mean this as an insult as a fellow autistic person. almost all of your screenshot post are jokes. like your missing the jokes bud, your not gonna understand them from an outside perspective. also this is literally the nicest kindest least racist place place on the internet. it would be great if you could leave us alone. maybe get into a irl hobby. I like to write.
It’s funny
It’s hilarious
I like it that
It’s ironic that
It’s weird that
so many fucking sentences start like that when smug liberals want to hide their rage behind more smugness.
It’s wrong to deny wild accusations from untrustworthy actors that have insubstantial evidence to support them, tankies. Yes I believe there’s a genocide against white people in North America, do you disagree?
I too deny the white genocide.
i dont, i celebrate it (im white)
Just going to throw out that the tankies at the… uhhh… US STATE DEPARTMENT have also said officially that there isn’t evidence for genocide in Xinjiang: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
If anyone calls you a genocide denier, throw out this one and see out they respond.
Legit had a liberal, when presented with the fact that the RAND corporation (the organisation that blurs the line between a US government agency and a private organisation which essentially set war policy in the Vietnam war for having kill counts as a metric for determining “success” in Vietnam, amongst other things) had released a paper that basically said that if the US wants to cripple the Chinese economy then what they’d need to do is to initiate a limited military conflict in the South China Sea within the next few years to disrupt the shipping lanes which China is largely dependent upon for foreign trade (before the Belt & Road Initiative gets away from the US and closes this window.)
The outcome, they determined, would be significantly more damaging to the Chinese economy than it would be to the US economy.
I stated that this has been around for some time now and it’s not a coincidence that the US is clamouring for war in the SCS and escalating in that region as much as possible without actually firing shots (yet).
What did the lib do?
You guessed it! It was obviously Sissypee tankie propaganda. From the RAND corporation.
I wish I had a fraction of the confidence of these shit-tier libs on the internet have because goddamn, the absolute balls to make the bald-faced claim that a corporation which would have extremely high US security clearance requirements and which has been directly influential over US policy for three quarters of a century is somehow now churning out pro-Chinese propaganda without anyone noticing or making a fuss over it.
It’s absolutely ridiculous the degree of information and knowledge that we are expected to bring to bear in a discussion and, upon presenting this info, the libs can summarily dismiss it for going against their narrative as Chinese propaganda (or tankie propaganda etc.) and they do it with zero evidence and zero familiarity with something like the RAND corporation’s history and function.
You’d legit get a military officer to burst out in laughter if you claimed that the RAND corporation was an arm of the CPC in front of them. And that’s a bad thing because I wish all US military a very unpleasant experience.
I like RAND corp documents, they are openly arguing for and against things which some people think are “unthinkable”. Then they print those up and distribute them in the typical US think tanks and places of governing power as well as archives (which is were I get them from mostly).
Which genocide do they say we deny?
Xinjiang and Ukraine (both past and present) mainly
Because as we all know, Genocide is when other countries do things that the West doesn’t like
Whereas if Ukrainians are systemically oppressing and killing the Russian-speaking minority in the East, that’s just protecting themselves and their national identity, which is good
