I don’t hate the Europeans for having fair working conditions. I hate the rich assholes that make my home country such a shitty place to live and work in.
It’s time to emulate the french and set the place on fire if they don’t start treating us fair.
Or you can start with unions…
And how do you think unions come about? Historically it’s by setting things on fire.
By actually talking to your coworkers about unionization, which is scarier for many of us than fantasies of an anonymous crowd.
It mostly depends whether unions are successful or not under the current administration. Unionizing has gone bad before. You can’t always blame the workers for not believing it would help, theres a lot of pressure from the other side.
We need Syndicates and Worker/Consumer cooperatives as an end goal. Unions aren’t the finish line and are only a bandaid over capital ownership.
Markets aren’t the finish line either, to be fair. Those retain the mechanisms that bring about inequality.
why not both?
Or fires…
The protests and strikes they keep quashing are the alternative to fires, destruction, and violence. It’s a social agreement the factory and warehouse owners want us to have forgotten.
That means not enough fires
Ding.
Only for them to be destroyed in another 20 years by the rich
Nah. Break out the guillotines, it worked well for the French.
30 days paid vacation + bank holidays + regional holidays + 0.5 days of vacation each on Christmas and new years eve + generally not having to work on weekends + generally not having to work longer than 8 hours a day + public transport ticket paid by the company.
Cannot complain.
Cannot complain.
Spotted the German.
I’m going for UK, specifically Scotland.
I have:
14 fixed holidays.
31 vacation days.
35 hours workweek.
Summertime hours reduction (from 35 to 32 hours).
Fight for it, and force your countries and employers to apply those conditions, because I assure you, they are good.
Summertime hours reduction (from 35 to 32 hours).
lol these are my regular hours (webdev in Germany with a 4-day work week)
What’s the name of your employer again?
Seriously, those are really good conditions, I’m glad you are aware of that.
I cheated a little. As I’m employed by a public organization of the Spanish government. But it’s true that we achieved these conditions because we have massive Unions here in the public sector. We are currently threatening with a strike if the remove remote work (as they are threatening to remove it).
Nice, good luck with your fight, remote work is the future
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I’m in the USA and I get 3 weeks paid vacation, 10 paid holidays, and 2 “personal days” which are also PTO, and more sick time than I am ever able to use up. I think I have over 200 hours of sick leave PTO accrued.
This is not a basic entry-level job though, it’s after climbing the career ladder for years. It would be much nicer for our country’s folks if everyone was allowed as much PTO by all jobs.
I only just this month “unlocked” my final week PTO after 7 years… 15 days PTO is the limit at my job :/
I’m an American working in the u.s. for a company based in Germany. They have soooo many more days off than us. They’re out at least 3 months of the year before taking additional PTO. They like to bring their European values of work to the u s. But unfortunately that doesn’t mean that I get any more off time. I save all year from January to December and if I never took any of it my PTO amounts to 3 weeks. If you’re an American they have different standards for you lol
The magic word is: Unions. Without them, we would absolutely not have a minimum of 24 days per year by law. Get out there and unionize.
Unfortunately Unions get corrupted easy.
Why is that?
I might be based coming from Norway where we have a very well regulated system with unions on both sides of the table. But I don’t see our unions as something easily corruptable at all.
Because there arent proper checks and balances.
So just like the corporate world and the us government the shitbags get in power and do whatever the hell they want with little to no repercussions.
The teamsters just went through that for years with that shitbag Hoffa jr. He just let the companies do pratically whatever they wanted.
Then you got stewards and shit who dont wanna do anything.
I didnt know any union reps/stewards until I went to managment.
Basically they only care about collecting dues and increasing their numbers.
They union doesn’t ‘demand’ anything beyond paying dues from its members so you’ve got tons of people who really think they can act however they want.
Complete lack of any sort of rules of conduct and no work ethic.
That doesn’t sound like a union at all to me.
I work for a company based in the uk, and I get off around thanksgiving until the start of the year. I horde my pto though.
3 months… Are you including weekends?
Your first sentence sounds like the Zeiss add on youtube that has been after me several times a day for months now
Lol, I have seen that too.
My wife got her first pay check last week at her new job in a US school district. I was certain something was wrong when it came in, but the pay stub did nothing to show the breakdown of hours, rate, etc. She finally got a response today - and I’ve learned that school breaks are NOT PTO. She gets zero PTO she can take during the school year, and while frustrating not to be able to choose when you take your time off, I assumed that was just because she gets the summer off. But apparently she gets no PTO AND takes 71 days out of the year off without pay, effectively. So they do you the favor of paying you over 12 months, but you still only get paid for hours worked. The rate of pay seemed like it would be a pay raise on the surface, but I never anticipated needing to dock it by 20%.
Zero PTO. Just the perks of American life.
Hourly wages for school teachers? I’m worried I might know the response, but does prep work outside school hours, in breaks etc. count as hours worked?
She’s not a teacher, shes in the library. But - she is allowed absolutely zero ot. She’s already had her time card adjusted on days that she worked early or late to match her scheduled hours. And they only pay her for 7 hours a day, but it’s an 8 hour work day and she hasn’t once had the time to take a hour for lunch.
What even IS the recourse when it’s not a comproration, but the government that is stealing your wages? 🤷 I think I’m more upset about it all than she is, because the quality of life is way higher than her last job. And so I’ll just keep it all to myself.
my wife is an educator, and she teaches summer classes to cover the gap.
The most heinous thing is lack of required sick time. And who is it that’s least likely to get paid sick time? Customer service, of course, the ones coughing and sneezing all over your clothes and food.
I only got 7 a year and I live in Europe…
That’s 7 more than most Americans get
No but jokes aside where are you from so I don’t move there
It looks like the average is 11 PTO days a year according to Forbes, with nearly a third of employees getting zero. I myself get 24 days a year with it going up to 29 in about a year. That said I’m terrified of being effed over by layoffs so I’ve been hoarding them like a dragon for the payout, which is arguably way way worse than having a nice federal minimum of PTO days.
Just make sure you actually do get a payout, had a friend screwed over by that recently.
Probably Turkey. Euro wannabes 😂
Netherlands. Fuck turkey lmao. The only thing turkeys are good for is being eaten during Thanksgiving.
Well either your employer was acting illegally or you were only working a few hours per week, which is it?
Minimum is 20 days in the Netherlands
I think or rather hope he confused vacation days with bank holidays.
I got 7 weeks per year atm
I think a lot of people thought you meant days.
Yea
I wouldn’t want to live in Turkey, but they do have good food.
The average American has 11 vacation days a year.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/pto-statistics/
I have unlimited plus my birthday off, once a quarter we all take off, a week for 4th of July, two weeks for Christmas and new years plus twenty holidays.
This is pretty standard for any job I’ve had.
I’m an electrician. How am I supposed to do this?
Unlimited ?
Pretty standard now days. The only limit is I have to get my work done and it can’t be more than 4 weeks at a time. Oddly it can’t be used if you’re sick. You have to use sick time for being sick. That’s only 12 weeks but that’s when disability would kick in.
Wait, so you get “unlimited” paid vacation days? That sounds like complete corporate bullshit to me… Who decideds when/if “work is done” or not? Even if your work isn’t done (there is always more to do), you still deserve vacation/days off.
How many paid vacation days do people take on average a year? How many did you take this year/last year? What happens if your company decides that you have taken too many vacation days this year, will they mention it you want to discuss wages? What happens if someone doesn’t take a minimum number of vacation days a year, will they be forced to take them or will they get praise for being a “hard worker”?
You’re right to be wary of unlimited. It’s primarily a way for employers to avoid having to pay out accrued vacation time when staff leave. And create the competitive environment you mentioned over taking few days vs a lot. It seems great at first glance but I’d prefer a set number of days, no ambiguity that way.
I decide.
On average? 4-8 weeks.
If you had read my comment, you’d see we are forced to take a eeek in July, two weeks for the end of the year and 20 holidays.
I take very little time off. I feel like I’m already off most the time.
I decide.
Oh please, then you could just “decide” to take every other month off and nobody would care, you would get paid the same,etc , you can’t tell me that’s the case…
If you had read my comment, you’d see we are forced to take a eeek in July, two weeks for the end of the year
Right, so 3 weeks vacation and you can’t even decide when to take them. Sounds like a pretty shitty deal to me…
I take very little time off.
It seems that way, yes, so what good does “unlimited vacation” do?
I feel like I’m already off most the time.
Are you a hiring agent or something? What’s next, are you going to tell me that your company is like “a family”?
I work for a well known (international) business in the USA that used to be known for it’s good benefits. Man are they ass now. 14 days a yr, 21 after 5 years, and could work your way up to 6 weeks at 30yrs. no lunch break, no pension, and some expensive health insurance that covers nothing. Now it used to be 21 starting 28 after 5 yrs, a pension and a lunch break, with some impressive healthcare. And they took away the upper limit of vacation you could get to be 4? IIRC After 30 years. (So 1 extra week after 5 years, then one more after another 25).
The pay is fine but no nearly what it used to be. It used to be $10+ over the competition, now it’s barely $1. They are hurting to hire because of it too
Which country has such a low minimum? Or was that not a full time job?
He means weeks, not days
The European minimum is 10 I think
4-6 weeks?!
We Indians have 12 paid leaves per year.
Yes. In Germany 30 are quite common. A fried of mine additionally changed some bonus for 5 extra days this isn’t the normal case but she has 35 days off
HR had some bug in their system and I got about two extra weeks (7 total) for a few years, but I didn’t complain about the bug.
Govt jobs in India have 30-40 days, which is 6-8 weeks. But the private sector will riot if you try mandating anything close to that.
I get 4 weeks, plus sick days, plus parental leave, various types of training days and charitable days, plus a 2 week carry-over and I’m neither American nor European.
I realized how I am biased when i thought “how can he be neither American nor European?”
I was married to someone from a “third world” country and boy americans have so much worst than them. If I were american I would reather live there than in the US just to get all the benefits
That’s almost exactly why our
brainwashingelementary schooling is spentindoctrinatingteaching us about how we’re The Best, Most Free, Country In The World™©® and that all “3rd world” countries are war torn shitholes with nothing but cartels and warlords.Can’t let the peons learn it’s actually much better elsewhere…
Parental leave, sick days (unlimited), 10 national holidays, and 52 vacation days for me. And I am European. Edit. And two days telework a week.
I get 5 weeks.
In the US.
Thanks to a union.
And I get paid the hours on top of regular pay at the end of the year if I don’t use the vacation. Nobody gives you a second thought if you use your vacation. Zero pressure not to fuck off for a week or more.
Go Union.
American. I’m one of the lucky few who have unlimited PTO. I’m seriously underpaid though.
So how many days do you take a year? As the other comments also touch upon, it becomes an outperform thing with co- workers, to take the least amount to “perform better”. Also how easy and often do managers then deny requests?
With a fixed set it has an actual value, at the company they can’t deny PTO’s as they are yours. Of course planning comes into play a little bit, but if you let the company know that 2 months from now you take 4 weeks off for a good long summer holiday, that is what you will be doing then in those 2 months.
ps. I have 25 personal paid days, a bunch of public holidays. Doctor’s appointments are on the ‘please try to schedule them outside working hours if possible, otherwise, well, that’s life, you need to visit that doctor’. Full travel reimbursement (fixed amount per month, can spend however i want), A lot of secondary items in my contract as well dealing with having to take care of partner / children if they become sick (is paid time off), etc etc.
I do not take as much as I should. 5 weeks last year? For doctor’s appointments and stuff like that though, no one cares. You just let your boss and your team know. I am on salary, not contract.
i think that’s really the point - unlimited isn’t actually unlimited. unlimited means unspoken, and often variable limits based on the mood of managers
5 weeks is… pretty minimal
5 weeks is… pretty minimal
15 days is the limit at my job that you only get after 7 years working here. Seeing comments like this make me sad… Happy for you for sure, but sad for me cuz Murica’…
i guess the point is not to brag - it’s to rattle the cage and yell “THIS IS NOT NORMAL” and “IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS”
… there are lots of americans that just consider what they experience as normal, and that’s absolutely not normal for similarly privileged countries
… then you unionise and this forms part of your demands ;)
I have never been turned down for PTO in 7 years at this company, for what it’s worth. I just don’t take enough vacation. It’s my own fault.
okay but that’s kinda the point… unlimited leave isn’t really that because nobody ever takes that leave… it’s not your fault: it’s literally designed to make you think it’s your fault… if you decided to take 2mo PTO i guarantee your “unlimited” PTO would suddenly not be unlimited
Is that really a thing? I’ve seen it in a few job offers but I have trouble understanding how it works…
As I understand it you can take as many days as you want and it works on the company’s trust, but that system sounds really toxic to me, isn’t it?
Edit: I’m European with almost 7 weeks off a year for context
I’ve never experienced it but the somewhat obvious trick is that it turns into a race to the bottom, where if you want to outperform your peers (or even meet the expectations of the company), the number of days off you freely decided to take turns into a KPI.
So, people take even less days off when they are made free to take any amount.
It’s why in Italy, for example, you can not refuse to go to holiday.
I have unlimited and I’ve seen a few people take 2 weeks off consecutively. So it seems like the company is pretty flexible and doesn’t put artificial limitations on it. That said, I’m pretty sure even a month off wouldn’t fix the damage that’s been done to my brain from years stacked upon years of redlining it to write code and solve problems. I find as I get older I need more time off to truly disconnect.
It’s a lie.
By making it “unlimited” they don’t need to pay you out of you don’t use all of PTO days.
If you use it more than they think you’ve earned you get terminated.
Employees end up afraid of taking their PTO days and typically end up taking even less time off than if they knew there was a expectation of 3 weeks or whatever.
I don’t think payout is a factor for salaried positions
It depends on the jurisdiction, but in most cases if you have a salaried position with say 3 weeks of PTO but you only take 2 weeks of it. The employer is usually required to pay you over and above your salary for working during your “vacation time”.
If there’s an unlimited PTO policy, they don’t have an obligation to pay you extra for working during vacation time.
Self-employed, and not very well. I don’t get any paid days off, unfortunately.
Well, that should be part of your hourly rate. I’m also self-employed and sick and personal days-off are factored in (with a large margin too, just in case!).
Yeah, I have no idea what I’m doing.
Well, you kind of implied that saying you don’t have days off… if you factor it in you certainly have, you just choose to not spend them.
I wasn’t being sarcastic, I literally have no idea what I’m doing.
Australia is weirdly crap for this too. Only twenty days annual leave, though in theory you can bank it forever until you die at your desk.
20 workdays is 4 weeks non?
I had 26 before :( At least there are endless AFL themed public holidays.
Not only european Brazil have paid leave too, and others more democratic countries
Oh god, you don’t want to hear what the average American has to say about Brazil. Or really, any other country than America. Americans will do anything and everything to justify the totalitarianism they live under.
True, I mean the totalitarianism they live on is the first in the history where companies own the country, that’s why they got so mad when Brasil banned twitter, they can’t fathom a company getting punished for breaking the law
is the first in the history where companies own the country
Hum… You need to learn some history.
True, when I wrote I thought about that, but was too lazy to fix
The most prominent example that comes to my mind is Chiquita. Their history is as cruel as it is interesting and it always leaves a bad taste seeing their bananas in my supermarket. Easily one of the most evil companies ever.
I’m an American that had that, then we got bought by a German company that took it away. Shit’s fucked.
Wtf that goes against reason
No, why? That’s capitalism for you. It’s still a US company/subsidiary, just with a German owner.
