I’m a conservative. I don’t mind the liberal stuff here. It’s good to learn the other side, but I don’t want a liberal echo chamber. I’d like to be more politically balanced in the fediverse. Is there any way I can do that?
Unfortunately most of the more “conservative” instances became highly toxic and so most other instances have defederated with them.
funny how every time conservatives group up, their communities become so toxic, full of hate and conspiracies, that people have no choice but to cut ties lol
Woah, woah, there… Telling all the trannies and colored folks to die is their protected free speech rights. How dare you cancel them.
they’d thrive on 4chan. i recommend OP go there. that’s a breeding ground for this ideology. they can enjoy all the loli, nazi, and “n***er” rekt gore threads they desire
I have to ask, what do lolis have to do with the rest? I can’t say I’m a fan but I feel like I’ve missed a memo.
4chan has a shiiiit ton of loli threads, sometimes containing real cp unfortunately, and some ai generated realistic cp. and, 4chan is a cesspool of alt right cunts. they are the ones proudly producing the threads
Just on /b/ for that.
/pol/ is the serious fascist breeding ground. I step in occasionally just to see what talking point these guys are going to be drumming in the mainstream in 3 to 6 months. It bleeds over everywhere else on 4chan so there’s a high overlap, but people on /b/ are surprisingly varied (if universally idiots, but I guess that’s kind of the point).
both are disgusting cesspits. i see no variation on /b/. its all loli, rekt, nazi threads, andy biersack, and porn
It’s because their political leader at the moment is a populist. They can’t help but be a bunch of cunts. Monkey see money do kind of thing.
Here’s an unpopular opinion. I saw a lot of the same elements in the Bernie crowd. Not for taking peoples rights or anything illegal like that mind you, but they were very quick to want to ignore the rules during the primary to throw out the choice of the Democratic majority in order to have Bernie win over Hillary. To this day I still hear conspiracy theory talking points about how Bernie really won, or how he was winning the real polls, etc. it’s the same populist rhetoric and it’s dangerous.
Yeah, but how often did Bernie himself repeat those conspiracy theories? Did he ever try to violently overturn the Democratic primary results? Every popular person has some shitty supporters, so you can’t just judge people based on their supporters.
Bernie never said anything to my knowledge, which is why I said the Bernie Crowd. It was limited to a chunk of his fan base that discussed ignoring primary results and awarding delegates to Bernie. Violent or Non-Violent wasn’t the point. The rules were set before the primary, and Bernie lost. Any attempt at discussion of anything regarding overturning that result is overturning democracy. That was scary to read. You don’t think that would ever turn into a coup attempt, but It’s enough to have made me uncomfortable.
I only blame Bernie as much as his populist rhetoric misleads people. Nothing actually happened, and I don’t believe he would have stood for it if it did.
Yeah, but how often did Bernie himself repeat those conspiracy theories? Did he ever try to violently overturn the Democratic primary results? Every popular person has some shitty supporters, so you can’t just judge people based on their supporters.
You want to see a toxic community? Check out politics on this very instance. It’s one gigantic toxic far left “progressive” circle jerk echo chamber. Anyone that says anything not straight out of the official democrat approved talking points playbook is brigaded and called a nazi/fascist/bigot.
Both far sides are as toxic as each other. What OP wants, and what I think many would like, is a community that wasn’t hostile to either side, and that’s up to the mods and the users. Unfortunately the installed mods don’t want any part in nuanced conversation, they want a circle jerk for their ideologies.
Have you seen all the comments on this thread?
Instead of answering the OPs question, 100+ people are just bashing him for thinking differently, saying stuff like “Well, why are you conservative in the first place? Conservatism is so stupid! People on the right are evil, monsters, etc.”
This left wing echo chamber is already very hateful and against any differing opinions.
It’s not “thinking differently” it’s “the beliefs necessary to maintain that political stance are stupid and cruel”.
So thinking that biological males shouldn’t compete against biological females means your beliefs are stupid and cruel? Believing that all people should have the right to voice their opinions without being censored is “stupid and cruel”?
Which one is the party banning books right now? You’re a lying disingenuous shitbag and this is why your conservatism isn’t respected.
No one is banning books. What is happening is people are calling for books to be restricted to people of the appropriate age. No 10 year old should be reading a book telling them how to have anal and oral sex. Why on earth would you think that is ok? Why do you think they should be given access to and in some cases forced to read that?
Thanks for the insults though, very mature and intelligent of you.
Name the book. What is it called and where was it. I want a concrete example.
Not every conservative is a racist nazi. Some of us just want the government to stick to doing what’s in the constitution.
So then how can you possibly agree with the right? Is banning books in the Constitution?
Westerners, especially Americans, have a really really hard time believing that you can be socially one thing and governmentally/economically another. For instance Im radically socially leftist but economically libertarian.
Because Americans have been force fed the lie that you have to pick one size fits all, they assume that every conservative is also socially conservative. Which, in the case of America, means you support the wild anti lgbt/anti abortion legislation.
I agree. The way I worded my comment was very intentional to not bash conservatism. I don’t consider myself one but I thought OP’s question was pretty respectful and I do find it unfortunate that he doesn’t have a community on here that isn’t extremely radicalized.
Yeah, it’s a shame that people can’t be more civil and respectful to each other.
Instantly became toxic? I’m shocked, shocked I say!
Unsurprisingly
I think they would be more moderate if more moderate people would have opportunity to participate. Right now all of the non left instances or communities get too quickly defederated and deleted, so moderate people who would normally participate dont want to create na account on a completely defederated instance. The only thing you are left of there are some crazies.
The only way I heard of conservative communities here is from a post that is asking for defederation or deletion
Well, the conservatives in those communities could try being less horrible pieces of shit and not bring hate to minority spaces, but that’s probably too much to ask
Remember when being conservative meant you wanted lower tax?
Now it’s a competition to see who’s going to say the most toxic stuff and who can become the biggest piece of trash a human being can be
“I LOVE RUSSIA TRUMP IS MY GOD FUCK LGBTS ALL TRANS ARE PEDOPHILE SOROS BILL GATES WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE WOKE FAUCI OBAMA BUT HER EMAILS BUT HIS LAPTOPS BUD LITE WOKE WOKE”
like holy shit, calm down a bit…
Conservatism has always been that
In America maybe, although I doubt that.
That was like 15 years ago as I remember it. Being a conservative was about being a fiscal responsibility, and there was an expectation that we were all moving in the same direction socially. Now it’s all messed up.
It’s been the same since the Nixon era, they’re just more mask off about it now.
Give hate a chance!
conservative spaces shouldn’t need moderates to balance out their toxicity and crazy when left on their own, they simply shouldn’t be toxic and crazy. why do they need their hand held? it gets defederated quickly because THEY always quickly turn their spaces into pure hate, and they choose to spread that. that’s on them, not us.
The ideology is built in hate so it’s no surprise this happens to them
It’s funny. What is happening here is “hate” towards conservatives!
And no, conservatism is not built upon hate. There has to be a left, there has to be a right. And the absence of either would drive us to dictatorship (lack of left wing) or anarchy (lack of right wing)
Oh no, anarchy
… Uh so no dominance hierarchies, where no one rules over another? Yeah, don’t threaten me with a good time
I’m socially pretty left but a voluntarist and it feels pretty hostile. Even socially moderate or liberal cons will feel pretty bad. I’m just used to chillin’ in left spaces so it’s whatever.
I get what you’re saying. There’s a mindset in the fediverse that everyone on an instance is responsible for it. Even if the bad actors join later. The instance gets defederated but as a user it can be really hard to know if your instance is defederated.
It’s a deeply unpopular opinion and anyone who suggests that federation is simultaneously a huge advance and a big problem seems to get downvoted.
You’re right, ultimately instead of being exposed to a range of views some of which are challenging we’ll end up in little echo chambers.
We need more moderation and less defederation.
There’s a difference between being exposed to a range of views and being exposed to hatred.
And that’s were moderation (the act of moderation) comes in as a first step rather than instant defederation.
r/conservative mods handed out bans for anyone even asking a legit question. Conservative arguments aren’t fact based, so any good faith argument is seen as an attack and the only defense is to reject it outright. I don’t know how good moderation can be applied to that.
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I’m fine being in an echo chamber that Trans people deserve human rights. That’s a hill I’m willing to die on. If you disagree, you can stay out of my bubble, I’m not negotiating this point.
This. If they identify as humans, they deserve human rights
I haven’t mentioned anything about Trans people at all ? There’s nothing to negotiate and I don’t disagree that trans people have a right to be treated with respect and have their rights respected.
It’s the hot topic of the moment for conservatives, particularly the ones that are getting banned from public sites. Other than that, it’s all culture war shit like abortion, immigration, border walls, etc that all go into xenophobia, misogamy, racism, antisemitism etc. I haven’t seen any real conservative ideas in a decade. Now it’s all a grift. You either have a old idea of what conservative is or just aren’t saying it out loud. Even when Republicans cut taxes, they cut them massively for the rich and give the middle class and poor pennies. Any time someone wants to put more money in lower classes pockets they fabricate some bullshit to block it (Student Loan Forgiveness, Stimulus Checks) all a while giving Businesses Billions and removing oversight (PPP Loans).
The problem with the issue you’re talking about - “trans rights are human rights” - is that when even moderately left people ask “what rights don’t trans people have?” they’re labelled transphobic bigoted Nazis and are censored or banned……and still don’t get an actual answer.
That’s because 99 times out of 100 it’s a right wing troll saying it. If you really don’t know, read the fucking news. It’s not hard to find. Google LGBT rights, there are more than enough sites that have it all documented. Coming into a conversation and making someone spend the time to prove something obvious is a tactic they use online.
The challenge will be finding an actual traditional conservative instance that isn’t also a pro-Nazi fascist shithole.
I imagine traditional conservatives often get gate checked as leftist.
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Not to get too sidetracked but part of what isn’t working about capitalism is what is coming down the pipe with climate change. Capitalism does work, but market socialism looks like an upgrade to me. People over profits.
DOUBT
You’ve said other things to get people to call you that.
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Well if any left winger were to argue that merely believing capitalism with a touch of regulation works is all that makes you a Nazi, I’d be inclined to disagree with them even as a liberal progressive.
For me it’s believing that what you read, what you are taught, who you love/marry, how you practice art, what happens between you and a doctor, and where you were born that needs to be policed, controlled, and punished is what makes a Nazi. I honestly don’t think a genuine American conservative would care about any of that.
I think you are referring to democratic socialism.
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Nope, it started much earlier. When they linked up with evangelical Christians.
Yeah there’s only as much sane conservative content as there are sane conservatives.
/r/conservative used to be moderately sane back before 2015. It’s almost like the entire Republican lost their minds the year after that. I wonder why…
Would it be too late for them to rein it back now?
Seems like anyone trying would be immediately be booted for being a “liberal”, and the only way is down.
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holy shit, the jokes write themselves. it really is like 3 losers posting weird ass shit
“If A Leftist Guy Was With His Girlfriend And Called You A Toxic Male, What Would You Do?”
“I downvote every post that says 'climate change”here is a nice post on !fatehate to emphasize their wonderful community of rational conservatives
“jabba the black”
The f***? What the hell is that racist garbage?
Also a bunch of transphobic shit, because of course.
aaaand another, i could go on
and another
Reality has a well known liberal bias. Stop trying to hide from reality.
No, the Internet as a whole has more liberals than conservatives, due to a variety of reason. In real life you are much more likely to met someone that is neutral or only slightly to either side. What exists here is literal echo chambers of liberal policy to the point the policy becomes unpalatable for most, that doesn’t exist outside the internet.
that doesn’t exist outside the internet.
Never been to any type to city, I see.
As a rural person, I’ve come to realize that we usually have no real concept of just how overwhelmingly large the population is that lives in huge cities.
It’s easy to perceive New York as just “a lot bigger than any town I’ve lived in” rather than “large enough that my entire town could visit on the same day and literally no one would notice”.
Another one that helps me put it in perspective - “If every resident of New York took a day trip to casually slap one member of my town one time, everyone in my town would probably die of our injuries.” It helps me when meditating on “Why should they wield so much political power?” They already do. This shared voting system just let’s us argue in a much chiller way.
A lot of history makes more sense through the context of realizing both how different city and town life is, while also accepting that an almost inconceivable number of people live in cities.
the Internet as a whole has more liberals than conservatives
Because Conservatives don’t know how to use the internet or change the channel away from fox
I don’t like fox or cnn. They’re both corrupt. I prefer to get my news through youtube. I search for experts on a certain topic explaining the issue. During covid I watched a lot of doctors explaining covid on YouTube.
YouTube is not a news source my friend. A lot of the “experts” you’ll find on there have zero credibility.
Saying “I get news from YouTube” is like saying “I get news from the television”. It matters what channel you’re on.
What direction do you think fox is biased towards? What direction do you think cnn is biased towards?
It’s worse than getting news from TV. TV doesn’t have an algorithm feeding you Right wing propaganda like YouTube pushes.
No. The Internet just seems more liberally slanted because people are more liberally slanted overall. Conservatives rely on outdated voting principles to make it seem like they are more widely supported than they actually are. Things like first past the post, electoral college and gerrymandering. This is why you see republicans fighting to either keep the voting process the way it is, or to restrict voting in various ways.
Also, conservatives feel like the Internet is more slanted to the left because they are usually stuck in their little rural community echo chamber. Then come to the internet where they actually have to interact with people outside their local area, like cities and other countries.
They also rely on the low voter turnout. If more people under 40 voted, it would likely be consistent liberal governance for the foreseeable future.
Didn’t nearly 200 million people vote in your last election? The entire population is 335 million, and you can’t vote til you’re 21. Only about 260mil people are over 18, so a maximum of 260 million people can vote if there were literally no 18-20 year olds, which we obviously know isn’t true. That’s not “low voter turnout” at all.
It’s not even the internet. Conservatives are more likely to stick to existing stuff and not experiment much. Liberals do that.
This is why places like YouTube have a big conservative audience. Places like Lemmy will have a huge liberal audience
that doesn’t exist outside the internet.
It sure exists in the podcasts I listen to (real people talking, even if it gets delivered via internet) and books that I read. It exists in the conversations that I have with my social group irl. It existed like crazy at the Bernie campaign speech that I attended in Feb 2020. If you think Leftist / Social Democrats don’t have real numbers, it’s because you don’t look for those groups to surround you.
I know it’s scary to be in the real world outside of your conservative silo, but as you’re seeing the lies your News agencies have been feeding you simply aren’t true.
The Red states flipping blue, Texas going purple and the vast majority of Americans being in favor of roe v wade show that your world view of conservatism is not the majority belief in America.
You’re already contributing to a balanced discussion. keep at it and be the change you want to see. I feel the whole “belonging to a camp” thing in terms of opinions and politics is too simplistic thinking. Some people like myself happen to have opinions that will range across the political spectrum. Let’s say a very political person starts a conversation, but is swapped out for someone else from their “camp”; Isn’t it boring to know all of their talking points and opinions before they even start talking? Imo that’s detrimental to free thinking and learning to accept other viewpoints. The thought in politics is that we must all agree on all of our camps points or be chastised for not complying, also we must make the other side see that our side was correct all along otherwise our side will loose. Nah fuck that, let’s just learn to have conversations with a variety of opinions first.
I find it very weird how certain specific issues are assigned to a certain political leaning or more correct correct, how you are expected to believe a certain way in all topics depending on your voting history.
A couple examples are religion and abortion. What do these have to do with any political leaning in the US or any country for that matter? Our maybe the better question to ask is why do people think there is some universal law that dictates what side of the political spectrum you lie on based on certain beliefs that have nothing to do with politics?
That’s the point. This liberal vs conservative isn’t even working for the US. In an international community like Lemmy it’s even worse, as what people from the US define as left and right does not work for western Europe for example. In Germany liberal in a modern sense is seen equal to neoliberal, what is democrats for US is right conservative for us, what is left in Europe is communism for the US and so on, you get it.
It may work for parties on a regional level, but for individuals, forget it.
The connection between conservatism and religion/abortion exists because of a well documented effort by Reagan era republicans to culturally connect them. Imo there is no underlying rationale besides “we will create and maintain moral wedge issues to keep religious voters on the hook”, while they work on their true goals- the consolidation of wealth and power further into the oligarchy.
Exactly what I am saying. Religion was never a left or right thing. That is not even the definition of left or right politics. For some reason it for attached to one but that is a human construct and a US construct. Most other countries don’t portray religion to a certain political leaning.
How can you be so obtuse?
The Republican Party is forcing their religious beliefs on everyone (abortion, gay rights, etc) on everyone, claiming the US is a Christian nation.
Don’t be an ass. Not that it bugs me when you get personal but Lemmy is more caustic than Reddit if you want people to think a bit.
This is so important. In essence, politics should be about our view, and critically searching for those who best represent it (or the most important part of it at the current moment), not about a ‘team we root for’ and get our views from. I think too many people forget that.
As a non American looking in, politics is basically treated like a sports team in America. People pick a side and then that’s it - unquestioned support, forever, while attacking supporters of the other “team”. All they care about is “winning”. They don’t care if their own “team” is making their life worse, as long as they “win”.
Just a reminder that it isn’t a left vs right conversation. It’s working class vs ruling class.
You aren’t bitter at leftists, you’re bitter at the ideas that media companies use to keep you angry at leftists instead of oligarchs.
If you have to work, you’re working class.
If you actually do hate certain types of people, then you need to work on yourself.
If you don’t believe certain people need health care, then you need to work on yourself.
If you believe ultra wealthy (people making over $10mil in income annually) deserve more tax cuts, then you need to work on yourself.
If you don’t believe that minimum wage should have parity with inflation, then you need to work on yourself.
Have some class solidarity.
EDIT: To all those downvotes… Ask yourself why you are downvoting me. (Now with 100% more sources)
Do you actually hate certain people? Really? But you’re downvoting me? Work on yourself.
Do you actually believe you don’t deserve health care? That others don’t deserve health care? Seriously? Work on yourself.
Are you super wealthy (low percentage chance)? I’m saying uncomfortable things to you. But you can easily afford those taxes so maybe work on yourself.
Do you believe people working for minimum wage shouldn’t be able to afford an apartment by themselves anywhere in the USA? Work on yourself.
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You’re incorrectly saying that conservative ideologies = genocide, fascism, authoritarian. That’s complete and utter bullshit.
At the moment in America there are more democrats calling for “white genocide” than there are republicans calling for any type of genocide. There are more democrats calling for violence and persecution of people with differing opinions and ideologies than there are republicans. Only 1 side is calling for censorship of opposing opinions, and it isn’t the ones that is being accused of being fascists.
Who is calling for white genocide?
I see people claim this all of the time and they never have any actual evidence of this claim. Whereas the right in the US literally advocated banking people for their religious beliefs, and the KKK is still a politically active group.
Which group chants “lock xxx up”
Which group is banning books across the nation?
Which group is literally boring their rights away (see recent vote in Ohio where 1.3 million people voted to reduce their own voting rights)
What opinions are being called for censorship on a governmental level? The left used to some effect social pressure, but only one group is trying to ban books, block education, deny the existence of groups of people, and trying to jail doctors for providing medical care. (See Florida, Texas and Tennessee)
Who is calling for any genocide? We’re constantly being told there’s a trans genocide going on, but curiously no trans people are being rounded up and killed.
As for white genocide, well there are calls for it in South Africa at the moment. Google “kill the boer”. There are plenty of black people on Twitter in the USA saying similar things.
Which groups are advocating for “banking” people? (Also what does that even mean?)
Cool, the KKK exists - so do anti-white groups. BLM exists.
Which group chants “lock xxx up”?
I have no idea, what are you referring to?
Your comment on book banning is typical propaganda. No one is asking for books to be banned, just for inappropriate books to not be accessible to kids. That’s not banning.
What voting rights did those in Ohio vote away?
No one is trying to “deny the existence of a group of people”, that’s yet again just more far left “progressive” propaganda like the “trans genocide” thing.
As for the jailing doctors for providing medical care, we’ll the issue at hand is what is and isn’t medical care, and when it’s appropriate. Cut any perfectly functional sexual organs off a child? Yep, straight to jail you should go. Prescribe puberty blockers to a child? Yep, straight to jail you should go.
“There are plenty of black people on Twitter in the USA saying similar things.” You can find extremists on Twitter for anything. There’s no organizer group. And if you’re going to argue that blm takes this position, a citation is needed. Not just some whack-a-doodle who supports blm but actually blm.
Ah yes, that you don’t have the reading comprehension necessary to put together context clues that banking was a typo for banning. That actually explains literally everything.
Knowing that I can just dismiss everything else because you’re either maliciously using a simple typo, in which case this isn’t a conversation that is happening in good faith, or you’re too stupid to debate with.
Eta: it’s absolutely adorable you think you won. I did address exactly one point you made. Specifically because you were exactly predictable enough to know, beyond a doubt, that you would gloss over it. Bless your heart
I note that you didn’t answer a single question but instead opted to make a pathetic excuse to dismiss it all 😂 . If me asking what you meant when you literally made a mistake is all it takes for you try run away crying and then it shows you can’t defend your position. Absolute weak sauce.
Well said. I’m saving this.
People disagree because your entire argument is “unless you’re stupid and voting against your best interests or are a rich person who hates everyone else, you should vote democrat”.
It’s not “working class vs ruling class” at all. Democrat politicians are just as pro “ruling class” as republican ones.
I think it’ll be tough to find that corner of it… I think I saw a conservative community on lemmy.world but the platforms original purpose was to get away from the big, controlling, capitalist social media platforms the likes of Twitter, Instagram, reddit, etc. Like mastodon, the largest part of the fediverse (I’m pretty sure), grew alot when twitter was brought by Elon, and more moved after he messed up the platform enough, saying they’ll create their own platform where hate won’t be allowed. It’s kinda against it’s nature to have much conservative-ness.
Not trying to be rude as based on how this sounds, you seem nice enough and not crazy, but places like mastodon are basically the left’s version of “Truth social” where people are pretty ok with saying “I don’t want those thoughts spread here” those thoughts they don’t want are usually things like homophobia or transphobia, but those are fairly common on the right even if you don’t share them.
It’s an interesting thought and would probably be alittle healthier, but hey you’re still here being able to provide that counter point of view
Anyone who votes for a party that supports racism, banning books, and trying to make it harder for people to vote is not “nice enough”.
They are an evil piece of shit who is making the country a miserable place to live.
I agree with this but we aren’t talking about castings votes here and I’m assuming OP is voting as if he is a sane person, but what are they supposed to do with the values they hold that don’t align with liberalism?
I would decide which is worse: the things I listed, or the things the voter may dislike about liberal policies like free healthcare for all.
but what are they supposed to do with the values they hold that don’t align with liberalism?
Grow as a person. Something we should all strive to do. There are plenty of places I diverged from all the hard right liberals. Mostly around the capitalism fetish. But I can support them at least because of their more pro social democracy stance. But I can articulate and explain the logic why when asked. As a socialist I also diverge heavily from anti social democracy socialists. And again, can general explain and point out the reasons why. Things most of my fellow Americans have little understanding of or desire too. But none of us are perfect, nor will we ever be. But that isn’t a reason to stop growing.
I only vote republican when they have good views. I’d rather get rid of political parties and make people run on merit alone.
What was the last decade where that happened?
Affirmative action is textbook racism btw. Which party is pushing that?
No one is asking for books to be banned, just for them to be age restricted due to inappropriate content for children. I don’t care which way you lean - an 8 year old shouldn’t be given books describing and encouraging sexual experimentation with things like anal and oral sex in school. That’s not right.
Affirmative action would be biased if everyone started with the same opportunities. Surprise, they don’t!
It’s literally racism to give an advantage based on race. There is no debate about this. Racism is racism, you just think this specific racism is good.
If you have only two choices and both are bad, you have to choose the lesser evil. The OP probably doesn’t like the racism and stuff, but they dislike certain policies of the other party even more.
Also, “trying to make it harder for people to vote” is an interesting way to say “requiring people to bring their citizen ID when voting, like in any civilized country”.
I would say that the dismantling of human rights would be a greater evil than the things the democrats could cook up, but if you are not affected and have no empathy for others it could be better to vote for the republicans.
And werent the conditions to be able to vote pretty restrictive to a lot of people?
Which human rights are being dismantled?
I live in a country where identification is required for voting and it doesn’t feel restrictive. On the contrary, I’m glad someone can’t just vote in my name.
In the US the largest group of people without id’s are Democrats and black.
It’s literally making the system more racist.
There’s nothing that makes it harder for them to get IDs though.
No one should be allowed to vote without an ID, anywhere, ever. If you can’t prove who you are and where you live why should you be able to vote? This is how you get voter fraud.
Here in Australia you’ve always required a government ID to be able to vote, and you need to provide it when you vote. It’s a great system. Anyone arguing against it needs to be asked why.
Every black person has an ID, you have to otherwise you can’t do anything anyways. I have never met anyone in my community who doesn’t have some form of ID that’s valid in elections.
So the question is, why doesn’t everyone have IDs? How does the country identify its citizens?
IDs cost money, require visits to DMVs (which conservatives work hard to shut down in poor areas, or other fuckery with their hours or such), and if you want the federal level one cost more and require more paperwork
We use the garbage and not-designed-for-this social security number for major IDing
Because the republicans work very hard to make it difficult for people who would likely vote democrat.
If you got an ID sent to you when you turned $AGE I’d support requiring it to vote. But any proposal of free/automatic IDs gets shouted down by fanatics who think it’s the mark of the beast from Revelations. It’s a non-starter.
In my country:
- We have a mandatory national ID
- Having it automatically registers you as a voter after 16 y.o.
- Voting is mandatory between 18 and 70.
- We vote on Sundays to ensure everyone can go.
- Voting in always in person. We usually use schools to that end, windows are obscured to ensure secrecy.
- We record who voted following the electoral registry. Only the last issued national ID is valid to vote.
Where is this Shangri-la?
Not such: we’re in Latin America and we have a multitude of other problems.
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I’m thinking specifically of gerrymandering but this article covers the many voter disenfranchisement methods used by Republicans in the US in the past decades:
In Florida, courts have backed Republican efforts to withhold voting rights from hundreds of thousands of felons, many of them people of color.
Maybe it’s just me but I’m ok with convicted felons not being able to vote.
Registering to vote using and then presenting a federally issued government ID is a good thing. It stops voter fraud dead in its tracks. Why are people against this? Because it supposedly disadvantages minorities? It doesn’t. They can get a federally issued ID just as easily as anyone else.
Felony disenfranchisement is a relic of the Jim Crow era. It’s an incentive to arrest and convict POC on false charges of a felony so that their rights are permanently stripped away. Restoring the right to vote lessens this incentive.
https://www.vox.com/voting-rights/21440014/prisoner-felon-voting-rights-2020-election
If you’re interested in learning more, please check out this book:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow
Re voter ID laws, this is from the ACLU’s fact sheet on voter IDs:
-Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.
-States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.
-Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.
-Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap
There’s far more to making voting more difficult than just requiring an ID. For example, I believe it was Texas that relatively recently lowered its number of voting stations in left-leaning areas and made it illegal to give people water that were waiting in line to vote.
You can be someone that’s not inherently against capitalism and for free communications platforms. I think stuff like this is a good start for polycentric regulation, which I see as important for any type of a voluntary or anarchist future.
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I’m sure prager would fund it if someone explained it to him
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I don’t think it’s controversial to say that “conservative” in the context of US politics has been bifurcated. On the one hand, there are definitely traditional conservatives out there. On the other hand, the really loud ones tend to be far right edge lords who purposefully speak loudly about topics that are socially unacceptable. It’s always based on a misunderstanding of free speech, too: people are generally free to say what they want, but they are not free from the consequences imposed by society based on what they say, especially when supporting harmful activities or straight violence. This is something Elon Musk really should learn about.
I’m all for open discourse with traditional conservatives, but I’m not about to sit idly by while Nazis return to the stage. There was a war and the outcome was pretty darned clear. So, I’d say it’s a good example of bad apples ruining the bunch (though from what I have seen, the
numberratio of Nazis vs traditional conservatives is sadly pretty high). I think it is an issue that will need to be fixed between conservatives, ultimately. Shutting down Nazis (again) seems quite acceptable to me, however.I understand how you feel, let me know if you find anything. I’m more left leaning myself, but I’m also not a fan of echo chambers and it gets pretty tiring and annoying seeing the same stuff over and over again. At the end of the day, I just wanna see an open, fair, and balanced discussion. The Fediverse is undeniably very left leaning currently, which is surprising to me since you’d think the anti-censorship design on paper would appeal more to people on the right who are against big tech and censorship, but I guess not? It’s interesting.
The Fediverse is undeniably very left leaning currently, which is surprising to me since you’d think the anti-censorship design on paper would appeal more to people on the right who are against big tech and censorship, but I guess not? It’s interesting.
american conservatives care more about denying rights and liberties than anything else as evidenced by their leaders and publicly shared platforms; so if you believe that censorship has anything to do w it, you’re not a conservative.
I think both the left and the right are concerned with restricting rights, they just have different views of which rights it’s okay to obstruct.
Which rights to leftists want to “obstruct”?
They never come back to answer that question do they?
I personally would like to further obstruct the freedom to murder children at school.
I second that
Personally I want to obstruct the right to murder schoolchildren that seems to have become prevalent but the rightwingers seem to think that’s an infringement.
Free speech is the biggest one.
Women’s rights is another.
Go on and explain those, please.
Free speech? The left want any speech they deem “hateful” to be censored, banned, and made illegal. They encourage and campaign for people to be deplatformed and banned from social media.
Women’s rights? They want biological men to have access to everything that biological women do.
Free speech? The left want any speech they deem “hateful” to be censored, banned, and made illegal.
Explain. What speech do they deem hateful? Why is it not actuwlly hateful? And what are they doing to ban it or make it illegal? Also, where are these leftists? They’re certainly not in government.
Women’s rights? They want biological men to have access to everything that biological women do.
Such as? Also, what is a “biological man”? As far as I’m aware, biology has nothing to do with gender. It relates to sex, though. There are biological males, that’s for sure. So, it seems to me you’re just doing mental gymnastics to say trans women aren’t valid and are just. To sum up, you’re just reaching to be anti trans, and pretending this is an anti leftist argument.
Also, i thought we were talking about the left? The left are more likely to ve on boars with trans people, true, and to be against hate speech. But the left are generally more about worker solidarity, unions, busting hierarchy and removing the state. Seems you have leftism confused for general progressivism.
The “rights” to deny bodily autonomy and to enact ethnical cleansing are not worth defending.
Ah yes, the classic conservative “both sides” argument.
Which side are literally calling for more censorship? Democrats or republicans?
Great question. Republicans.
Ooh so close. Try again.
I mean honestly it’s probably near impossible to discuss conservative politics online these days without the far right loonies invading, taking over and getting the place banned lol.
Also I wonder if conservatives would be put off lemmy given the political stance of its creators - even though that shouldn’t matter being free and open and not controlled by any one person, you know how people are.
Why do you thknk it is, that those “far right loonies” feel welcome and comfortable in those “conservative” spaces?
I mean, while that could be correct I also consider that if far right spaces get banned regularly then those people are refugees that will invade the next closest thing?
Obviously the next closest thing to far right, is center right. Does that make the center right inherently bad? I don’t think so necessarily on principle.
I disagree with conservative views almost entirely but its not something that I believe shouldn’t have discussion spaces, unlike far right politics which can just get fucked with their disdain for basic human rights, they don’t deserve a seat at the table at all.
I suppose ultimately it’s down to moderation isn’t it. If conservatives want a seat at the table they have to keep their lunatics in check and if they don’t then yeah don’t see why I should cry over it really, and thats true of all online communities.
Center-right just fits in with everyone else. Either all those people have shut up and just blend in with liberals or they don’t really exist.
I know, so weird right
If someone is “conservative” but not a Trump loving Q nut job, I’d argue that they have about the same in common with the Biden administration than many progressives online do. There is no overlap with the majority republicans party today. The concept of discussion is not compatible.
I mean there are also other countries in the world with various varieties of conservatives but I see your point
The conservatives in many other first world nation would fit better with the democrats in the US at the center. The US Republican party is lost. These people do pop up in other countries though, Canada especially.
Also I wonder if conservatives would be put off lemmy given the political stance of its creators - even though that shouldn’t matter being free and open and not controlled by any one person, you know how people are.
I’ve already seen it happening with people on Reddit (they don’t seem particularly conservative either) claiming that lemmy is “built and run by Tankies”. Many of these people though are/were also scabs so take that as you will.
This is my issue as well. There is nothing inherently wrong with conservative politics, but most arguments I see about politics online are about highly charged topics instead of actual policy discussion. Lots of heated emotions from people whose easiest outlet is anger doesn’t make for good conversations.
It often feels like we represent media interests and are arguing on behalf of whatever source we spend the most time immersed in.
What US conservative platform bullet isn’t a grift? Is there any? It’s been nearly a decade since I came across a conservative arguing anything in good faith.
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Meanwhile, libertarians are staring at both the extreme left and extreme right and wondering what the fundamental difference is…
Indeed, libertarians are known to be stupid.
The Fediverse is undeniably very left leaning currently, which is surprising to me since you’d think the anti-censorship design on paper would appeal more to people on the right who are against big tech and censorship, but I guess not? It’s interesting.
What a baffling take. I’m stunned that you managed to describe the exact opposite of reality. The left are against centralisation of power, especially in corporations… It’s so absurd to suggest the left are fans of big tech. It’s even more absurd to suggest the right are not. The right wing supports capitalism, and corporate monopoly is pretty much the goal of any capitalist business.
Also, censorship is utterly irrelevant to this discussion… apart from, i guess, social media execs having the power to silence people who hate them. Which are… most likely to be leftists…
Such a weird comment. I’m shook.
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Yes, claim
I’m what would be called “very left leaning” in Australia. On Reddit and Lemmy’s politics communities I’m called a trumper, nazi, bigot, republican, and a fascist 😂. I voted yes to gay marriage in our referendum. I have literally never voted for our Conservative Party. I’ve voted for the greens (our “far left”) more than I’ve voted for our “left”. I’m a big believer in taking action on climate change. I’m a trans rights supporter, identify as whatever you want, I don’t care.
What I’m not for however, is censorship and things like pretending biology doesn’t exist. I’m for fairness across the board, so my views that biological males only compete with biological males makes me a “transphobe” apparently 😂
I don’t want an echo chamber. I want everyone of all political opinions from far left to far right to be able to discuss their opinions and views without fear of censorship, brigading, and banning. Apparently that’s too much to ask of the far lefts that make up most of Lemmy.
Being a conservative must be a discombobulating experience in the technological age. The conservative is attempting to prevent the progression of society and conserve what we currently have or even revert to a bygone era.
OP arrives at a brand new platform, a piece of technology that didn’t exist a short while ago and requests a space to assemble people who don’t like change.
Honestly? And I promise I’m not being sarcastic: Reddit and Twitter are still your home. But the same goes for centre-left liberals. It’s not that you’re conservative, it’s that you’re moderate.
Many of the recent arrivals to the fediverse (myself included) are here because we’re fleeing the corporate internet. We feel strongly enough about it that we’ve thrown all our toys out of the pram, abandoning huge platforms to try build this new space. This kind of behaviour isn’t exactly “centrist”.
So this nascent lemmyverse has a wiiiiide breadth of political views but not as much in the middle because those folks are all still on the old platforms. Over here we have Nazis, hexbear and shitposts. And porn. It’s still early days.
Reddit is as far left as it gets in terms of politics and ideologies.
Hooo buddy have I got news for you.
Why make it a right vs left thing at all. Can’t we just discuss things going on as they are without pigeonholing certain opinions as “right” and “left?”
I don’t think x y z thing is true because I’m “on the left.” I think it’s true because it’s my best understanding of reality, and that understanding of reality is generally described as “left.” If you falsify my arguments, point flaws in my understanding, or present me with a set of premises that corroborates reality better, I’ll align myself with that in a heartbeat. When you see something you disagree with, don’t just think “oh that’s leftism I don’t agree with that,” instead, try to figure out what you think the flaw is with it, and then offer that up in good faith. Worst case scenario, someone learns something.
Define “conservative”
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Oh, and don’t forget about social safety nets that are part of the status quo but which they also don’t care about.
And social freedoms. Because fuck other’s freedoms.
Also no human or personal rights. Everyone should be a slave except for the rich. And fuck your vacations.
And not really conserving status quo either but actively trying to make it shittier.
What I’d like it to mean - the belief that government intervention often hurts the people that it’s meant to help, so should only be used in limited circumstances and be carefully designed.
It seems to mean white supremacy, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia instead.
The idea that government intervention is bad puzzles me every time I encounter it. Government in a democracy should be “the people” and intervention could protect you in so many cases. Assuming you’re from the US, from an outside perspective your job ‘market’ is utterly fucked. Because of cuts to the welfare system (which have been marketed with somewhat racist propaganda, see welfare queens), most people are forced to take highly unregulated, low-paying jobs (yes, plural) while rich people and big companies earn more and more. The government could intervene and make it harder for companies to exploit workers the way they’re doing it right now.
Look at how it was 60 years ago. Single income, blue collar households could afford houses. Now double income academic households can’t. And all that despite the huge technological progress we made. We need so much less manual labor than in the 1960s. Everything should be easier. For everyone.
That is because denying welfare to people who need it happens to line up perfectly with the beliefs of those groups you named. Neoliberalism didn’t work out for the people, only people still voting for this shit are bigots and gullible morons.
That definition doesn’t seem to fit the verb conserve or adjective conserving. If it’s specifically about government, wouldn’t it be better to use a term for that instead of the broad conservative? Slim Government?
In terms of economics, liberal and conservative used to mean regarding the role of government. They’ve taken the opposite meanings in American political discourse.
Even the first part of your comment is some fairy tale rich people tell you so they can make more profit.
I think they’re often wrong, but I’ve known a lot of people who aren’t rich and believe it in good faith.
Of course they believe it. Rich people get idolized like crazy and rich people are constantly saying that programs that benefit the average citizen are bad and are too expensive for the tax payers.
Conservatives spent two generations actively trying to make the government worse and less effective just so they can turn around and say “look how shitty this is!”
It only means the latter if you listen to the far left.
It’s the latter because that’s the contingent running the republican party
It’s not though. Like I said it’s only that if you listen to the far left.
It is. Trump is the leader of the party and he pretty much defines all those attributes. I don’t need to listen to the far left to see that.
