Source.

On Nathan J. Robinson. I learnt yesterday that he didn’t do any union-busting, and the departing writers/editors who stirred up so much drama on left-Twitter were lying all along. This article by Yasmin Nair gives the full breakdown with a lot of receipts.

I was linked this article by @[email protected] in his post yesterday, where NJR was vindicated on calling out Fetterman being terrible back in 2022. The replies to that tweet are filled with people dunking on Nathan, while the quote tweets, almost all from the past couple days, are filled with everyone apologizing.

It’s pretty interesting to see.

I’m currently going through his other tweets. So far, NJR seems like a pretty decent guy with a lot of good analysis’, completely different from the caricature I made up in my mind from memes and tweets.

It’s quite strange. I used to read Current Affairs before the “incident” and even listened to the podcast. I liked everyone there, including Nathan. I guess that’s why when I heard what happened, and saw in real time all the people I liked fighting with each other (well, all the people I recognised from the articles and the podcast dunking Nathan), I felt betrayed in a sense. I remember writing an email or filling out a form or something similar that the writers who’d been “fired” had set up. Maybe I donated money too, but I don’t remember that. If I did, it would be a small amount.

And I stopped my subscription to Current Affairs, changing it to Jacobin instead.

There was a lot of trolling that went on. I don’t think I ever tweeted at him personally, but that doesn’t matter. I know I consumed the tweets and posts (even here and on the subreddit back when it existed!)

Why? For me, I guess, it was a sense of justice mixed with betrayal: here was a man who headed an org I respected who had betrayed these principals we all hold dear, and in doing so hurt these other people who I also like. And the only power I have in enacting “justice” is in ridiculing him a little bit.

But even then, that never achieved anything. I won’t say “dunking” as a whole is useless. It can be useful in bringing people together and giving us a sense of camaraderie, but only when it’s against deserving subjects - billionaires and the like. It’s like part of forming an identity around common things we hate.

But… completely divorced from any other forms of unification, any other ways to group and coalesce, all that left is a weak identity that does nothing but dunk for no other purpose. Thats, I guess, what happened to me.

None of us here became leftists for the purpose of trolling others. Using it to hurt and bully others is what people on the right do, even if they consider themselves apolitical sometimes.

But dunking on Nathan…became that. Didn’t it? In the article, Yasmin Nair points to real world examples of people bullying him. I imagine they did so out of a similar feeling of “betrayal”, and sought “justice” too. But how would that achieve it? It wouldn’t. It can’t.

This happened because we separated our actual politics - leftism - from our online activities. Maybe not all of us, but I’d wage at least quite a few. If Current Affairs had failed in the years between the Incident and the start of Jan, 2024, I would’ve thought “sad this happened, but serves him right” with no thought to the actual damage that would’ve done to the real world impacts of losing a magazine like that to left politics.

That’s a failing on my part. It’s a failing that I let my personal grievances with Nathan (Ill-informed as I now know) shut me off completely from Current Affairs as a whole, with all the great writers who work and publish there, then and now.

I remember there was an effort, early on in this site’s history, of making this place more than just a place to shitpost online - to actually be used to organise. It failed, partly because we were small and partly because we were too resistant. There were also onboarding efforts to allow us to grow to mitigate that first problem, but it ran into the second one, our resistance to change, and, well, here we are today. Is there anyone here who remembers those days? What a mess. Since then, a lot of original people who created and did the heavy lifting of maintaining this site, including creatively, left.

I remember enquiring sometime ago, maybe 2022, maybe 2023, about what happened to the writers who left Current Affairs. Have they found other jobs? Where are they working, publishing, podcasting? I wanted to support them. I didn’t figure it out. Some have now deleted their Twitter, others have privated their accounts. Maybe it’s for the best.

Maybe things could’ve been different if we could’ve grown and changed and been the place for atleast left-adjacent people to come by the time Reddit exploded and people started to migrate to Lemmy. Who knows? That’s a different world, and probably also a different post. But at least we could learn something from our mistakes. I am trying to from mine. —

This went in directions I wasn’t expecting. I just typed out my thoughts as they came to me. You don’t really have to read it.

TLDR: “I’m sorry, Nathan” and maybe dunking, without any thing else, is not good.

  • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    46·
    9 months ago

    NJR is a anti-Marxist demsoc who dresses like he’s about to give a lecture on phrenology. If he’s been vindicated, then fine, good for him. But I don’t think it demands a lot of of soul searching from anyone who dunked on him. And personally I was around for the old days too. It was pretty much like it is now and the obstacles to organizing here were the same then as they are now, which is why it didn’t happen.

    • RonPaulyShore [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      38·
      9 months ago

      people shouldn’t feel bad for self-cannablizing and libeling a good leftist voice, and he dresses dumb

      no investigation no right to speak, no posting of your own drip no right to speak

    • LibsEatPoop [any]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      27·
      9 months ago

      From the post I linked in the text:

      I say in Why You Should Be A Socialist that [Marx] had “a better understanding than almost anyone else of the way that economics determines the fabric of the social world,” and praise texts of his as “brilliant” and “profound,” full of “great insight.” I am not sure how that can be squared with thinking I have scant regard for him.

      I’m not saying he’s Vijay Prasad. There’s only so much I can expect from any western leftist, Hexbear included. But he’s created a successful leftist magazine that some people tried to tear down and were thankfully unsuccessful. Learning about what went on has made me do some soul-searching and conclude a world with Current Affairs, and NJR writing what he writes, is better than one without, no matter our disagreements.

      Also, we’re using DemSoc as a pejorative now too, huh? I remember when we used to split hairs, saying SucDem were acceptable to dunk on because they actually just wanted Nordic-style welfare states, but DemSocs were genuine socialists. I guess the circle of acceptable leftists must get ever smaller. The site can’t remain left unity forever. When will the anarchists (the few that remain) be culled?

      • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        38·
        9 months ago

        Lmao, he said on the Current Affairs podcast that the left would be better off if Marx had never existed. That’s how people got the idea that he had scant regard for Marx.

        Also, we’re using DemSoc as a pejorative now too, huh? I remember when we used to split hairs, saying SucDem were acceptable to dunk on because they actually just wanted Nordic-style welfare states, but DemSocs were genuine socialists. I guess the circle of acceptable leftists must get ever smaller. The site can’t remain left unity forever. When will the anarchists (the few that remain) be culled?

        Reading this in a weepy Jordan Peterson Kermit voice. It’s a description of his position, not a pejorative jesus

        • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          25·
          9 months ago

          Lmao, he said on the Current Affairs podcast that the left would be better off if Marx had never existed.

          Damn, he actually came up with a worse take than Chomsky’s “The fall of the USSR was the best thing to happen to socialism”.

          What a time to be alive.

        • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          18·
          9 months ago

          If I had a time machine that could take me to a white room outside space and time which contained both baby Karl Marx and baby Hitler, I would shoot Marx twice, because without socialism Hitler wouldn’t have been able to commit genocide

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          3·
          9 months ago

          With how much this guy has been straight-up lied about, and given his verbatim statements directly to the contrary, I’m not going to believe this unless someone posts his actual words, not a summary from someone who doesn’t like him.

            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              13·
              9 months ago

              A guy who writes 10,000 word articles every other day supposedly hates Marx, but no one has an article where he actually bashes Marx? He’s supposed to have said something on a podcast, but we don’t have the podcast to listen to, we just have years old tweets of people supposedly quoting one line from it, devoid of even basic context?

              A bunch of people repeating smears they don’t actually know the basis of would look exactly like this. And we know that’s happened once to the guy already.

              • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                8·
                9 months ago

                I remember this when it actually happened, so I find it quite easy to believe. But there’s enough link rot that it’s hard to pinpoint where it was said and I’m not going to listen to every episode of the podcast from around that time just to prove it to you, no offense.

                • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  7·
                  9 months ago

                  I also remember when “he hates Marx” started circulating, and I remember tracking down an episode where he mentioned Marx and thinking “Oh he thinks some leftists treat Marx a little dogmatically? That’s all this is?”

                  I don’t think it makes sense to rip on other leftists without receipts to back it up. If you think the only receipt is buried in some obscure corner of the internet 3-4 years back, maybe this is not an especially key part of the guy’s thinking.

  • Sinistar [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    39·
    9 months ago

    Me: the left in the west needs everyone we can get so any kind of left punching is unjustified

    Also me (sometimes): lmao look at this demsoc dipshit

    I think having really firm and well-defined principles is important, and I also think it’s hard to do without a larger organization helping you maintain them. As an individual we are too caught up in our own emotions, the whims of the crowd, our personal experiences and parasocial relationships to always see our own principles clearly, and this kind of cannibalistic dunking is the result.

    I also think that cointelpro never ended, and that a lot of the shit stirring that often paralyzes the western left isn’t organic.

  • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    27·
    9 months ago

    While this still makes my eye twitch, it’s better than all the people who are running with the dumb “indiscriminate attacks on global shipping” narrative - even people who are purportedly pro-resistance (usually the same people posting shit like WHY ISN’T IRAN DOING ANYTHING. WHERE IS XI. WHY IS HEZBOLLAH NOT DOING ANYTHING)

    • LibsEatPoop [any]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      21·
      9 months ago

      It boggles the mind. The few sane voices are like islands on a sea of reaction ready to genocide Yemen for daring to stop the genocide of Palestine.

      I’m surprised, but pleasantly, to see Nathan as one of those islands.

      • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        14·
        9 months ago

        That’s a bit of a screed sorry, by “bazinga takes” I mean if you’re actually arguing about whether Ansar Allah attacks on Israeli shipments raised prices for USian “working class “people”” (more on this later) to the point where you reach “that’s a good thing” you’ve swallowed the framing that’s it’s the attacks and not the capital strike increasing prices, and those prices are actually responsive to shipping costs instead of being calculated by “how many people in this neighborhood will probably pay 7.99 for chips absentmindedly?” and how much the suppliers feel like laying waste to everything, etc.

      • voight [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        7·
        9 months ago

        I think some bazinga takes like that are an unavoidable result of focusing a lot of energy on media criticism without reorienting yourself outside of the western media sphere & hyper reactionary tea partier types. It’s about more than simply adding foreign sources. Geopolitical explanations of current events are too difficult to fit into online discussions without setting off a bunch of false positives from prior incoherent reactionary takes people familiarized themselves with through political entertainment.

  • ElGosso [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    26·
    9 months ago

    If you’re a union-buster who dresses like you’re three question marks away from sending brain-teasers to Batman then I’m going to bully you shrug-outta-hecks

        • WithoutFurtherBelay [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          18·
          9 months ago

          And the best way to get someone who would definitely just listen if you told them that without hostility is to… insult them on an online forum where they’ll never read it? Sounds like people here just really want to bully others, huh?

          • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            3·
            9 months ago

            One of the only active comms is dunk_tank. The entire purpose of this website is bullying of reactionaries, and social imperialists who attack actual socialism are dunk worthy reactionaries.

            Do you see yourself reflected in the attacks against him? Is that why you are so upset?

                • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  4·
                  9 months ago

                  The situation at hand here is not about his views. It’s about people sharpening their pitchforks over something they learned about in a game of telephone.

                  It’s really odd that people here can acknowledge that the cops and the legal system can ruin the lives of even the most loyal bootlicker or zionists can slander activists to ruin careers, but somehow think they’re immune to being a target of a witch hunt by lazy, uninformed internet posters.

      • farting_weedman [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        20·
        9 months ago

        I know this isn’t a cool or good thing to say, but I read enough of that article to get sick from the saccharine prose and saw the scroll at was only ten percent of the way down.

        If whoever njr is didn’t squash a Union attempt at whatever current affairs is, can you explain it here? I’m not reading all that.

        • regul [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          39·
          9 months ago

          Various CA employees who treated CA as a writing club that gave them and their friends checks wanted NJR to support hiring a white woman friend of theirs over a WOC and also to let the person hired as an admin assistant write articles and not do admin work. Company had a big long retreat while all this was happening. One item discussed was turning CA into a worker-owned co-op. The workers, who had representation on the board, could have fired NJR at any time and done this themselves. After the retreat, worried about the direction these employees were trying to take CA, NJR asked for their resignations in an indelicate way, but did not have the authority to fire them.

          They all publicly announced that they had been fired (they had not) and implied that they could not pay their bills. In reality they had all quit and been given 5 months severance with benefits.

      • combat_brandonism [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        10·
        9 months ago

        your bullying can harm your supposed political aims in the real world.

        were talking about a newspaper here what are we a bunch of trots?

        shit at least trot pubs are run by an org idek what sort of political aims a random succdem rag accomplishes.

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          8·
          9 months ago

          were talking about a newspaper here

          If leftists will blindly go along with ruining this guy’s career over made up bullshit, we could easily do it to someone who matters more.

          The lesson here is to actually investigate accusations of misconduct, not to write this off as OK because the guy doesn’t meet some arbitrary standard of importance.

          Edit: We also failed to sniff out the grifting of his accusers, who lied about getting fired and having no money to ask for sympathy money on Venmo. Everyone loves to write off various lefties as grifters, so we should be all over this, right?

      • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        4·
        9 months ago

        the magazine was overtaken by what Jo Freeman has termed “The Tyranny of Structurelessness.” This is the mistaken idea that informal structures with ill-defined positions are more truly radical and leftist than those with systems of accountability. At Current Affairs, it was assumed that everyone including the business manager and administrative assistant could be a writer.

        As a result, there was a disregard for the fundamental importance of the behind-the-scenes work—like business affairs, raising subscriptions, and mailing packages—that goes into creating a magazine, print and online. At Current Affairs, everyone—including every single board member—was an aspiring writer and public intellectual but the actual burden of publishing fell mostly on two editorial staff, Robinson and Gold. Of the two, only Robinson worked at the physical office in New Orleans alongside Silcox and Gauthreaux.

        Man I would’ve hated to be Nathan lol. Imagine having to be nice to a bunch of pretentious hippies while doing all the leg work. He needed to channel his inner purge-2

    • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      23·
      9 months ago

      Based on the interactions so far it will mainly be this interaction: people calling him a union buster > article disproving the claim is posted > people say it’s too long > a summary is posted > people say he still sucks because of something he said on a podcast or he’s not a Stalinist or whatever > 20+ comments deep discussion about what left unity and critical support entails

      • D61 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        9·
        9 months ago

        Oh you forgot the arguments that go along the lines of …

        “… sorry… bow tie detected, opinion discarded…”

  • AlpineSteakHouse [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    23·
    9 months ago

    But… completely divorced from any other forms of unification, any other ways to group and coalesce, all that left is a weak identity that does nothing but dunk for no other purpose. Thats, I guess, what happened to me.

    You need to understand most hexbear users are leftist by vibe and life experience, not theory.

    They like to imagine they’d be party members in the revolution but they’re not. They are the equivalent of the peasant soldiers fit with their own reductive Little Red Book they’ve put together from posting and memes. They have the right ideas but they have weird group dynamics because their structure is based on social groups not theory.

    Most came to leftism more so because it gave political legitimacy to personal grievances, not a desire for truth. Most don’t hate cops because they represent the bourgeoisie class interest, they hate them because they were jerks or arrested them for smoking pot. That’s fine as an impetus for starting, but you have to fucking read theory. If you haven’t at least read some Marx and Lenin then you are liberals in actions if not in view.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      18·
      9 months ago

      I’ve read plenty of theory and I’ve never gotten that vibe

      This place is more well read and up to date on theory then 99% of leftist places on the English speaking internet

      They have the right ideas but they have weird group dynamics because their structure is based on social groups not theory.

      Most theory is about the study and observation of different social groups, what does “weird groups dynamics” even mean in this context?

      Plz tell me you’re not whining about forum cliques, let folks have their internet friends, shit really isn’t that dire

  • Walk_On [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    22·
    9 months ago

    I love that the latest struggle session is about an anti-Marxist social democrat on a predominantly ML and anarchist site. Like I said before, all the dude does is write good articles sometimes. He’s not worth dying on a hill over. lol

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      13·
      9 months ago

      Three day bans for everyone who participated in that foolishness

      Embrassing display all around, imagine getting pressed over NPR riddler in either direction

    • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      10·
      9 months ago

      His views are irrelevant here. Ultimately, it’s a lesson on why Utopianism is terrible.

      The way he structured his company is similar to what many people on this site want in an “anarchist” or “communist” society: there are no ranks, everyone gets an equal say in every decision and do whatever job they want without le evil boss man watching them. He tried that. And what did that get him? A bunch of slander from his colleagues, followers, and internet strangers. And remember, he wasn’t even allowed to purge anyone. He had to pay them and give them benefits if they resigned and this is the result.

      Maybe no one should give a shit about him because he’s anti Marxist or a social imperialist or whatever. Okay. But how will you deal with a bunch of pretentious (or dangerous) children in your organization, party, government, community, workplace, etc. who think they’re all intelligent and hot shit and make inappropriate demands then try to tear you down when you decide they’re detrimental to your agenda?

    • D61 [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      10·
      9 months ago

      This is what happens when global climate changes makes it too cold/hot outside to find grass to touch… smdh

  • BodyBySisyphus [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    22·
    9 months ago

    I get that NJR dresses like a time traveler from the Titanic but it’s not like John Fetterman’s hoodies have had any demonstrable improvement on his opinions. If sartorial idiosyncracy is your biggest gripe I say let the poor guy have his ascot.

  • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    18·
    9 months ago

    Love to see people in this here comment section post knee-jerk responses and then never once investigate their own beliefs when confronted with data conflicting of their worldview. Why would they? They hold the correct opinion of course.

    You are not above being wrong, just because you’re a socialist.

  • zifnab25 [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    18·
    9 months ago

    Honestly, my brain first went to Cuba.

    But yes, sieging Gaza for decades on end… maybe Houthi policy is just a reflection of what the Israelis have established as the terms of conflict.