I think they are saying names shouldn’t be released until after a verdict had been rendered. Just the implication is enough to ruin someone’s life even before a guilty verdict had been rendered.
My entire comment is condemning people that make another’s life so bad that things like suicide, emotional scarring, mental health, and poor livelihood in general are common outcomes.
If anyone would like to disagree… Well, fucking hell.
I was careful to not open a window for statistics, as that would be unrelated. And went further to make adement that there is no “which is worse” argument, as that is also completely unrelated to the issue of people’s wellbeing and those that devistate it.
The point is simply that things like a lack of anonymity in such cases has created severe trauma of an innocent person and the rise of it during the MeToo movement simply underscores that. And no, I’m not now anti-MeToo, this is simply an example of toxicity in humanity using something intended for good as an opportunity for bad. “We can’t have nice things”.
When a person is found guilty of rape or false accusation of rape, good riddance. Until then, a court should be fully aware that the public’s barrel of torches and pitchforks is not labelled “Innocent until proven guilty”.
It’s truly remarkable and concerning, the weird tangents and views some people share on the internet. I’ll be optimistic in saying that it’s likely a desire to just have interaction through argument, not sheer stupidity and lacking comprehension for what’s being said/going on.
What happens to people who have been raped and weren’t believed or were falsely accused of faking it? Just wondering if they have similar experiences with mental health?
Well as people worried about victims I’d just be worried it might seem a tad disingenuous quote from a vast minority of cases and not provide any quotes from victims that never see justice you know?
But you haven’t answered my question. Let me try putting it another way.
Should this anonymity, which you stated to be the most important thing for any case, apply to ALL criminal and civil trials, or only to alleged rape cases?
Life goes on fine without knowing who all the people are in courts around the world are right now. Unless the public is involved or impacted, or there’s an entity like a business or association on trial, I don’t really see what lacking the choice of anonymity does to help anyone, especially the innocent.
I’m no lawyer though and it’s surely not as simple as that. But just like anything involving personal or sensitive information about a person, it should be protected. Especially when, at least in principle, the justice system is there to protect, under innocence until proven guilty with no bias.
…a principle that is fundamental to our society and method of government: except in extraordinary circumstances, the courts of the land are open to the public. This principle arises out of the belief that exposure to public scrutiny is the surest safeguard against any risk of the courts abusing their considerable powers. …"
I understand that it’s tragic that some innocent people are destroyed either directly or indirectly by the justice system, both the unjustly accused that are acquitted, and also those wrongly found guilty. Lindy Chamberlain anyone? Hell, people have been hanged and later proven innocent. And the media in general sucks.
But I think the alternative to open justice would end up being a lot worse.
Let’s be honest. We all know who we’re talking about in this specific case, right? Whether the media is allowed to print the name or not doesn’t matter at all.
So, are you saying that all trials for any and all crimes or suits should never name either party?
I think they are saying names shouldn’t be released until after a verdict had been rendered. Just the implication is enough to ruin someone’s life even before a guilty verdict had been rendered.
For all cases? No matter what the alleged crime or lawsuit?
And I’d still really like to hear @[email protected]’s perspective too
My entire comment is condemning people that make another’s life so bad that things like suicide, emotional scarring, mental health, and poor livelihood in general are common outcomes.
If anyone would like to disagree… Well, fucking hell.
I was careful to not open a window for statistics, as that would be unrelated. And went further to make adement that there is no “which is worse” argument, as that is also completely unrelated to the issue of people’s wellbeing and those that devistate it.
The point is simply that things like a lack of anonymity in such cases has created severe trauma of an innocent person and the rise of it during the MeToo movement simply underscores that. And no, I’m not now anti-MeToo, this is simply an example of toxicity in humanity using something intended for good as an opportunity for bad. “We can’t have nice things”.
When a person is found guilty of rape or false accusation of rape, good riddance. Until then, a court should be fully aware that the public’s barrel of torches and pitchforks is not labelled “Innocent until proven guilty”.
It’s truly remarkable and concerning, the weird tangents and views some people share on the internet. I’ll be optimistic in saying that it’s likely a desire to just have interaction through argument, not sheer stupidity and lacking comprehension for what’s being said/going on.
What happens to people who have been raped and weren’t believed or were falsely accused of faking it? Just wondering if they have similar experiences with mental health?
I imagine that’s extremely likely, yes.
Odd question to ask.
Well as people worried about victims I’d just be worried it might seem a tad disingenuous quote from a vast minority of cases and not provide any quotes from victims that never see justice you know?
But you haven’t answered my question. Let me try putting it another way.
Should this anonymity, which you stated to be the most important thing for any case, apply to ALL criminal and civil trials, or only to alleged rape cases?
In my personal opinion? I guess.
Life goes on fine without knowing who all the people are in courts around the world are right now. Unless the public is involved or impacted, or there’s an entity like a business or association on trial, I don’t really see what lacking the choice of anonymity does to help anyone, especially the innocent.
I’m no lawyer though and it’s surely not as simple as that. But just like anything involving personal or sensitive information about a person, it should be protected. Especially when, at least in principle, the justice system is there to protect, under innocence until proven guilty with no bias.
"Principle of open justice
…a principle that is fundamental to our society and method of government: except in extraordinary circumstances, the courts of the land are open to the public. This principle arises out of the belief that exposure to public scrutiny is the surest safeguard against any risk of the courts abusing their considerable powers. …"
Lots more at Source
I understand that it’s tragic that some innocent people are destroyed either directly or indirectly by the justice system, both the unjustly accused that are acquitted, and also those wrongly found guilty. Lindy Chamberlain anyone? Hell, people have been hanged and later proven innocent. And the media in general sucks.
But I think the alternative to open justice would end up being a lot worse.
Do you think the idea behind open justice would lose any merit if a person on trial has their name redacted from media publications?
I’m not lost on the irony of, public scrutinises court, good; public also scrutinises defendant, bad.
Honestly, I think in a lot of cases, it’s silly.
Let’s be honest. We all know who we’re talking about in this specific case, right? Whether the media is allowed to print the name or not doesn’t matter at all.