Try to think beyond your adorable little “protest vote” when your choices are between boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. Or you may never have to worry about voting ever again.
Not to mention Trump would be an even bigger supporter of Israel than Biden.
“I would fight fascism to my last breath” “I would be part of the resistance movement if a fascist government took power”
proceeds to do none of the un-sexy things needed to prevent fascism from taking hold in the first place
Exactly. They think being in a resistance is sexy, because they consume media that glorifies it. They dress it up and hide the realities while amplifying the parts that are heroic and good looking, and think that’s what being in a resistance is like. Couple that with Main Character Syndrome and you’ve got a bunch of tankies who think they’re going to kick ass at organizing a resistance and all be leaders when in fact most of them are going to do something stupid, get caught by the fascist regime, and die in a camp.
I think it’s more likely they’d join the fascist regime and rationalize some reasons why that’s the “revolutionary” thing to do.
I doubt the tankies would be dying in a camp but only because they’d be the ones running the camps.
Fits the rest of their LARPing, honestly.
oh yeah the notoriously huge and election-swinging group in the us: the communists.
don’t delegate your problems.
In 2016, the blue team won by 3 million votes and still lost the election. The system is broken. I’ll still vote blue, but I don’t think it will matter, especially since I’m not in a swing state.
The electoral college, first past the post and gerrymandering basically make the American electoral system a joke
Turning 35 this September. Only 1 Republican has won the popular vote since I was born.
Well yeah, that’s why they love the EC (and idea of land >>> people)
Matters for your more local elections. Those swing states still send a lot of republicans to Congress every election. And control of Congress is pretty damn important.
More important than who’s president.
They don’t care.
Sure they will tell people that democracy will end if Trump is reelected but actually trying to fix the voting system is too hard.
Not that there has been any movement to do something about it. Just vote Democrat™.
If anyone actually wants to stop the genocide in Gaza please vote out your republican congressman, almost every Republican congressman supported the resolution to restart weapons shipments and almost every democrat voted against it.
This isn’t a republican issue only. Most of congress, both democrats and Republicans have been voting in favor of funding israel. The big problem is that most of our politicians are bought by AIPAC.
The “anti semitism” bill passed 320-91 in house.
The 14.3 billon in aid to israel was passed by the house by 366-58. Only 37 Democrats and 21 Republicans opposed the bill.
You can checkout opensecrets.org or https://trackaipac.com/ to see which politicians are getting what from AIPAC.
Well shit, if you have a republican congressman voting then out should already be the default condition.
checks vote
And of course Cuellar.
Just once I’d like to see one of these democrats who break with the party on key issues not get leadership backing to defeat their primary opponent.
Unfortunately that’s not going to work. Biden’s biggest donors were pissed he even paused the 2,000 pound bombs. Voting out the republicans isn’t going to purge this rot. We’ve worshipped at the altar of money for too long and now we’re going to pay the price. As the old question goes, “What happens when the lords have more power than the king?”
So how is the whole “blame-leftists-for-the-abysmal-failure-of-our-fake-democracy” gaslighting project going?
It seems a bit laggy.
DNC and DNC shills expecting free votes because they’re democratically funding a genocide instead of fascistly funding a genocide
You morons in November when Trump inevitably wins due to horrendous voter turnout in November from former Democrat voters and not because the 5 communists in the USA made the difference
It’s like a copy paste of Trump v Clinton and clearly no one learned their lesson from literally 8 years ago.
Fielding bad candidates because you can’t be bothered to do the bare minimum has been a thing forever. As a friendly reminder, the thing that scared the DNC and RNC the most in my lifetime wasn’t Trump, 9/11, or anything like that. It was Ross Perot.
They’d both burn everything rather than let anyone else play the game.
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Which part is the baseless claim?
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You have fun amplifying anti-democratic fascist propaganda. :)
Tankies when they finally create a dictatorship, only to work in the mines because the quota for poets was already met.
I wonder what their idea of the outcome is.
Tankie: “I convinced 20 Democratic Party voters to stay at home (and did the same for 0 Republican Party voters). Wait until Democratic politicians see that more voters favored the far right party. Then they’re going to move left and fall on their knees and beg me to forgive them.”
(Cue scene: swastika-adorned tanks rolling past the window)
“Stupid liberals, unwilling to fight the fascists like us true leftists.” (Watches tanks and twiddles thumbs.) (Fetches keyboard.) “Let’s tell everyone online that it’s their own fault and they deserve this.” (Sudden sound of harsh knocking on front door.)
At best, their actions will “only” cause another grid-locked presidency where progressives can’t get their reforms to pass (which will then be used as the reason to abandon the likely last line of non-violent defense against fascists).
Well said.
I’m so glad that I live outside the US. Not that we have good options but at least more than 2. I guess I would still vote for Biden but I wouldn’t call it a democracy
If we had more options then it would be Bernie Sanders
And we never even get the chance to vote against capitalism. Or the status quo.
Same here. That’s why I said we have no good options either
The US is mostly a democracy. It could be a full democracy if they got rid of the Electoral College, put in non-partisan election commissions (to prevent gerry-mandering) and had a formalized run-off system instead of a creaky old primary system. Their system is antiquated but it works most of the time, but the “mostly works” part of it means there’s not a lot of pressure to make improvements so the US could be a democracy all of the time.
Still wouldn’t be truly democratic if the media institutions are owned by the ultra wealthy, and parties only in power by gaining support from the ultra wealthy. It would be better, and I do not oppose these fixes, but it wouldn’t be complete.
Oh, the massive hypocrisy of Biden refusing to swallow his Zionist principles and stop their Genocide, whilst at the same time sending his tribe’s peons around to try and convince millions of people to swallow their Humanist principles and vote for a guy who supports Genocide.
Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
Yet he doesn’t and instead there’s a clear propaganda op with repeated variations of the claim that “Not being for Biden is being for Trump” (which, curiously, is just the authoritarianist argument “those who are not with us are agains us”).
Why does the supposedly elected representative of all Americans firmly refuse to follow Americans as they turned against the Zionist Genocide and instead acts like all dictators by doing what he himself wants disregarding the will of those he is supposed to represent?
The argument of this and other similar posts which have innundated Lemmy would be a lot stronger if Biden wasn’t an example of doing the exact opposite of what these posts demand from others, both the part of doing whatever it takes to stop Trump (which, as I explained above. Biden is not) and swallowing one’s principles to stop something worse (i.e. Biden stopping acting as a Zionist in order to secure the votes to guarantee that Trump is stopped).
Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
My favorite part is where no amount of evidence that the US electorate doesn’t actually back this idea up doesn’t stop Very Serious Leftists™ from parroting it over and over and over again.
Ah, an Ad Hominen: hadn’t seen one of those in at least 5 minutes.
How about you address my point that Biden isn’t willing to abdicate just one of his principles (support for Zionism, which is not even an especially moral one) to “Stop Trump” whilst sending peons of his tribe around demanding that millions abdicate their principles (and Humanist ones, which are about the most Moral principles one can have) and vote for him - somebody supporting an ongoing Genocide - to “Stop Trump”.
Ah, an Ad Hominen: hadn’t seen one of those in at least 5 minutes.
An Ad Hominem, clearly, is when you claim that the evidence doesn’t back a talking point up, and the more you claim the evidence doesn’t back a talking point up, the more Ad Hominem it is.
doesn’t stop Very Serious Leftists™ from parroting it over and over and over again.
Mind you the cartoon is already heavilly Red Scare “anybody that disagrees is a Communist” so I’m not suprised with the whole implying that I’m a “commie” for disagreing with your political tribe.
By the way, you’re still refusing to answer the question of why Biden won’t do himself what he demands from others…
doesn’t stop Very Serious Leftists™ from parroting it over and over and over again.
Wait a minute - does ‘ad hominem’, to you, mean ‘someone said something mean about me’?
Is that what you’re saying?
By the way, you’re still refusing to address my point about why Biden won’t do what he demands from others…
About why he won’t give up ‘a principle’ that is currently popular amongst the majority of Americans, including a majority of Democrats, to appeal to a minority of voters, who are not even particularly reliable voters at that?
Huh. I guess it’s a mystery why a politician in a democratic system wouldn’t do that.
I guess we’ll never know.
All of them are similar to the general scheme of ad hominem argument, that is instead of dealing with the essence of someone’s argument or trying to refute it, the interlocutor is attacking the character of the proponent of the argument and concluding that it is a sufficient reason to drop the initial argument.
Don’t worry, sweetheart, I addressed your argument just fine; that you want to play tone police is on you. :)
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Biden has called himself a Zionist…
If the majority of this country leans fascist and supports genocide (so long as they are sufficiently convinced the people we bomb or help bomb are evil enough), we will end up with fascism even if it isn’t trump. If genocide is the popular opinion and Biden risks losing the election if he reversed course, we have bigger issues in this country than president. A president might sign fascist laws, but local fascists enact them, and I know which one of them is more likely to kill me. Hell, local fascists might kill me even if biden wins. We have a fascism problem in this country and a huge group of voters being willing to overlook genocide is just a symptom.
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Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
I wish this was true but it very much isn’t. He’d immediately lose Pennsylvania, at a minimum.
There are more jews against the Israeli government at this point than for it. Yes he’d need to walk a line but that’s true of any campaign. The line he’s on right now sure as hell ain’t working.
The line he’s walking right now definitely isn’t working but saying that cutting support to Israel and sanctioning them “would pretty much guarantee” him the election just is not true at all (unfortunately). It’s not even close to true.
You’re right and that was an exageration.
That said, given the polls I saw mentioned here a few weeks ago, a majority of American is against what Israel is doing in Gaza, especially amongst Democrats.
Surelly a strategy of “ultimate neutrality” would do a lot more to hold Democrat and Democrat-leaning votes than a strategy of “Zionist all the way plus symbolic things like holding a single ammo shipment for a few days” (especially considering that every symbolic act that innevitably turns out to be bullshit slowly but surelly undermines trust in Biden, not just for this but for all messaging from him and his campaign, which whilst not affecting tribalists - who are true believers no matter what - most definitelly affects people for whom “I’m a Democrat” is not at the level of personal identity).
That would mean the first part of what I suggested: “announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes”. I confess I tackled sanctions there out of wishful thinking (hence prefixing it with “ideally”).
Please help me understand how “keep sending Netanyahu 2000lb bombs which he is using to kill children, doctors and journalists” is supposed to secure more votes than it loses. Which votes exactly does he expect to get from it that would otherwise not vote for him or vote Trump and how exactly are those such a huge fraction of votes that they can offset the votes he risks losing from people with even just some basic human empathy (they don’t even need to be lefties)? Does the Biden Campaign team actually expects that Republicans will vote for him instead of Trump if he’s pro-Genocide or that people’s revulsion at seeing pictures of dead children will be easily forgotten at the pools and they’ll vote for a guy helping it happen?
Rationally, is it really the strategy that maximizes the chances of “Stop Trump” (as everybody else is being told by Biden they have to do) to keep on sending Weapons & Ammo to Israel and providing them with Intel whilst they keep on murdering civilians shamelessly and the cabinet members over there utter some of the mosts vile ultra-racist Nazi-like stuff since, well, the actual Nazis, and relying on an astroturfing campaign to convince the people with more Humanist leanings to overcome outright disgust and revulsion to vote for the guy helping the murders murder more?
In my opinion, the safest strategy for a Democrat is then one I called above “ultimate neutrality”. That being so, the possible reasons for Biden to do otherwise would be all kinds of shady (one can even say “sociopath” and maybe even “evil”) and in direct confrontation with the stated objective of “Stop Trump”, which is why I started my original post by pointing Biden and his peon’s hypocrisy why demanding that others swallong their principles and vote for him to do just that.
Does Team Biden really expect that fear for LGBT people being treated like second class citizens in America will be a stronger emotion for most people than images of little corpses wrapped in sheets amongst the bigger corpses after Israel bombed a refugee camp lilke I saw yesterday on TV???!
Please help me understand how “keep sending Netanyahu 2000lb bombs which he is using to kill children, doctors and journalists” is supposed to secure more votes than it loses.
I definitely do not think it does, and I agree with the rest of your post that neutrality would be a better path forward
And then they ask “wHy dO tHe dEms mOvE tO tHe CenTrE wHeN tHeY lOsE i dOn’T uNdErsTanD”.
I think that’s been a proven case for European parliamentary democracies giving way to right wing and fascist parties. But that’s more the reverse: the liberal and center-left move center and then lose.
But US politics doesn’t have much leftist policy to shed, or many leftist politicians to exoricate, so it is more that even when Democrats win, policy stays right of center. Which is where the frustrated remark “both parties are the same” comes from, which everyone also shits on.
Since you know, the centre right continually stretches further right like a rubber band.
Dems can’t move as far left as you want them to when there’s a very real chance of losing. Want it to move left? Give Dems overwhelming and consistent wins and they can listen to the more left part of their party and move left.
Presidentially: yeah.
Congressionally and locally: not nearly as much. There’s a pretty solid track record especially since the Citizens United and SpeechNow decisions of the Democratic Party either mobilizing against progressives and for conservatives in primaries where there isn’t even a GOP threat.
They even took down Katie Porter because she didn’t kiss the ring of Dianne Feinstein.
But yeah, the acute threat the GOP poses gives them harm reduction status.
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The DNC funded Schiff hard and even funded the GOP candidate for attack ads against her. I mean you’re objectively correct: she lost. But she was fighting two parties by the time the primary happened.
She announced her intent to run too early back when effort was still being made to “Weekend At Bernies” Feinstein, which waa her undoing.
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Well yes, that is one thing that helps lead to that other thing.
President and Congress. Probably locally too but federally is what I’m focusing on.
And this isn’t strictly harm reduction. Like I said, want it to move left? That will happen with overwhelming and consistent wins.
Dems can’t move as far left as you want them to when there’s a very real chance of losing.
At least, not when there’s a very real chance of losing to the right.
It’d be different if the Republican Party was out there hawking Marx instead of Mises.
If this were a parliamentary system, sure. But our constitutional framework does not produce overwhelming, consistent victory. Like, ever, in its history.
May I remind you after the Bush administration, Obama won both the primaries and the overall election by campaigning from the left, not the center. And he won by a very wide margin.
Hmmmmm how ever could you influence who would win an election? Hmmmmmmm, Let’s see. Oh yeah, by voting.
May I remind you that Obama was not running against an incumbent? (Not to mention that he mostly ran on hope. And after the war mongering Bush it really didn’t take much.) When running against an incumbent, you have to go to the centre. That was how Clinton and Biden won. And we’re back to how do you move things left? Simple: By voting. By giving consistent and overwhelming victories.
Biden isn’t running against an incumbent, he is the incumbent. You want him to run from the center against an incumbent, OK. But then what? Run from the center again? That doesn’t make sense.
Again, “consistent, overwhelming” victory is a fantasy. Control of the executive and legislative branch exchanges hands every few terms. That’s just how this rule-set and this electorate play out.
JFC Now you’re just playing dumb. Biden ran against the incumbent, do I have to specify I’m talking 2020? When Biden faced off against the incumbent in 2020 he had to run centre. JFC. And guess fucking what, that carries on. Especially when it’s a rematch of the same guys, with the same policies, the same MO. Why do I bother when you play dumb. (Not that he’s even announced what he’s running on yet for 2024, but we can take a good guess).
Yeah you’re back to excusing yourself for not voting. Jeez you know how you could change that changing hands stuff? By voting. Seriously why am I bothering when all you do is make excuses for not voting. If you want to continue you’re gong to have to do better.
SURELY the DNC will listen if they don’t vote, don’t run, and don’t donate, but post a genocide Joe meme from their phone also made available by genocide while wearing clothes manufactured by a genocidal state on land acquired from an ethnic cleansing. That’s the morally upstanding thing to do.
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I helped run the phone lines for Biden in 2020. And what did I get? I got shit on. I got to watch my country participate in a fucking genocide. You don’t get to support that and then claim it’s some radical minority that’s the problem. The majority of non republicans want him to at least condition aid if not stop it all together at this point. All he has to do is follow the already written laws he’s been ignoring.
Well they didn’t listen when we did vote so fuck em. And no, participating in Capitalism is not an endorsement of capitalism. Never was, never will be, because participation is enforced.
Intentional misinterpretation.
Democrats spend more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans, because their platforms are 95% the same. You don’t get to insult half your base, tell them their priorities are bullshit baby dreams, move further right from your already mid right position, then blame those people for your loss.
By telling leftists to eat shit, you’re saying you don’t need leftists to win. If leftists are the single cause behind every dem loss then its probably time to change your platform to cater to leftists (or just admit that you’re fascists that’ll take the red fascism instead of the blue fascism before you shift left even a little bit.)
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They’ve been backing a genocide and demonizing the university protests. That’s very real, physical things that are on the right the Democrats are doing.
I think the important takeaway here is that you may hammer R’s all you want, but if you want to rely on the left electorate, you have to serve the left electorate.
So the fight really is between “let’s at least hold blatant fascism” and “let’s tech Dems to listen a bit so that on their next election they would actually cater to the left instead of being lesser evil”.
Because right now Dems are just that - lesser evil that doesn’t care to align with the leftists.
I have no balls in this game, I’m not even a US citizen, but I see the point they’re trying to make.
Keep cheerleading for fascism, buddy. :)
Your entire argument and political stance IS ALREADY FASCIST, buddy. :)
I can’t believe France wom that election
It’s entirely the Democratic Party’s fault if Trump wins another term. But their online cheerleaders are so keen to blame Communists who are such a miniscule percentage of the voting population. Are you going to start Muslim-bashing as well if they don’t turn out in huge numbers to vote for Joenicide?
The sole “Trump will be worse” pitch and constant hostility is absolutely pathetic, and not an election winning strategy. Even your own party leadership knows it. The disconnect between the actual party and it’s online supporters is huge.
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The hivemind in this comment is strong. When you lose in Rock Paper Scissors, do you “blame” the other person?
Whether or not you blame Trump’s supporters (who want the credit for a victory) or Communists (who want something new), you don’t gain anything.
I mean, you could blame a wasp for stinging you, but what’s it going to do? It’s a wasp.
Chips act, green energy, union empowerment, student debt, marijuana reform, etc etc etc. Anyone that says Biden isn’t doing anything is wilfully ignorant.
I’m waiting for the full student debt relief and pardons for everyone currently jailed for marijuana. It’s better than nothing, but not enough to change the slow decay. Third party or bust.
There’s a thing called jurisdiction. They can’t give debt relief for everyone, just the ones with federal loans. They can’t pardon everyone for marijuana, just those with federal offences. Most marijuana offences are state charges. So guess what? If you want state charges to be pardoned, you better vote in state elections!
Yeah you’re bust all right voting for third party. Even if your third party wins (lol) you’re going to find that little thing called jurisdiction.
do you even read the comments you reply to
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Is it the Democratic Party’s job to spoon-feed everyone the reasons why trump is bad, and despite the lack of press, explain the good things they have done? Because it’s people like you who just spout the negatives and never point out the positives to balance against the potential fallout. You know, the line that goes like “The Dems have absolutely done [bad shit] but we have this [good shit over here] and obviously the republicans and trump want to undo all the [good shit] and are going to do their damndest to impose a fascist dictatorship.
The sole “Trump will be worse” pitch and constant hostility is absolutely pathetic…
Bullshit. It’s a valid reason. Again, I refer to my comment that there is some implication that people need to be spoon-fed. People need to take some damn responsibility and learn the differences themselves, that’s why we have the premise (as deeply flawed as it seems these days) that the people are supposed to be in charge of who gets elected. So if all you hear is “Trump bad” that’s your own damn fault for not taking a few minutes to figure out why, not the democratic party’s fault.
It’s entirely the Democratic Party’s fault if Trump wins another term.
lol
Are you going to start Muslim-bashing as well if they don’t turn out in huge numbers to vote for Joenicide?
I don’t do the muslim bashing thing, but I do think the TikTok influencers convincing impressionable youth that A) there’s a genocide happening (it’s not) and B) not voting will make things better.
Foreign policy is foreign policy. Global interests don’t change on a dime. The main difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump would be cheerleading Netanyahu and telling him he shouldn’t be doing targetted airstrikes but instead carpet bomb entire neighborhoods. The US woulb be making zero effort in negotiating a ceasefire and there would not be a pier built to help distribute food.
Only an idiot would think that demanding the faculty of a university to do someone the bring about the end of a foreign conflict will accomplish anything. But the point of these pro-palestinian movements isn’t to accomplish anything, it’s all performative. It’s just a reason to hang out in a tent with some friends and get social media clout.
Anyone with half a brain that actually cared about Palestinians would be voting for Biden and doing everything they could to get him re-elected because it’s obvious how much worse things will be for Palestinians with Trump as President. Like how much do you think Trump will do to help in reconstruction of Gaza after the war is over?
But the Pro-Palestinian movement is mostly performative and they don’t really care about Palestinians. If more Palestinians die, it’ll be a good reason to have more fun get-togethers to “protest”, more money to be made for TikTok influencers, and more donations to terrorist factions in Palestine. The suffering of Palestinians is very profitable for a lot of people.
Joe Biden cares more about Palestinians than you do.
Ah the daily fascism discourse multiplier thread. There’s never any meaningful discourse that comes out of these: just divisive kafkaesque noise.
Seems to be just what op wants based on their posts and comments. Just trying to stir up shit but mods won’t do anything
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Do you think that writing angry words at them is going to change someone’s mind?
Damn, your reading comprehension is awful. Kinda impressive actually.
Do you think that insulting people is going to be effective in helping them change?
