I don’t expect this to play particularly well here, and maybe I’m just being conspiratorial, but here goes:
I banned [email protected] from [email protected] earlier today- he literally posted a matt walsh youtube link and was being otherwise transphobic in a space where that gets you banned. (link)
one of jordanlunds removed comments w/ matt walsh video:
spoiler
the reason I put down was ‘trolling about neopronouns’ I stand by that, it was violating instance rules and was unacceptable behavior from a moderator of another instance.
Shortly after that I got banned from [email protected] for ‘trolling’. To be clear, jordanlund does not moderate [email protected], but the timing struck me as an odd coincidence.
The .world thread in question (link)
I was expressing my actual opinion/position on this, if anything the post I was replying to should be considered a rule 1 violation implying leftists are russian/under russian sway:
spoiler
The removed comments that I was banned (permanent) for were just me being earnest about my position, which you’re welcome to disagree with.
I don’t view protecting my rights as something worth sacrificing other people for, even if they’re on the other side of the planet. You can be mad at me or hate me for that, but I’m not trolling.
People replying felt it was reasonable to call me an idiot for example, yet another example of selective moderation. on .world.
I don’t have any conclusive proof that my banning Jordanlund and then getting banned are related other than the suspicious timing, I welcome clarification.
Anyway in the interest of neutrality and transparency I submit both my ban and jordanlunds for review.
I’m beginning to think that .world should be avoided. Not defederated, but mirror subs should be started on other instances and everyone who doesn’t like this attitude / activity should deliberately boycott .world subs in favor of the alternatives.
Somewhat of an aside, I think this sort of behavior is far worse than what got everybody up in arms about Hexbear. I never disliked Hexbears; I see them as a tight-knit community that existed for multiple years before the Lemmy influx from the old site. I think they genuinely felt despair over the changes that federation brought to their instance and I feel sorry for them. Maybe if people make enough noise about the bad behavior of .world mods we can raise awareness and effect change.
- [email protected] instead of [email protected]
- [email protected] instead of [email protected]
- [email protected] instead of [email protected]
I’m confused I guess. You banned a lw mod, then got banned on a lw news instance, and you think it’s more than coincidence?
I guess it’d be hard to prove, but imo (which isn’t worth anything) I doubt that’s the case.
It turns out it was a coincidence, they even reverted the ban on me in the end too.
The two bans still strike me as a good example of archetypes of heavy-moderation action taken in different context. Shutting down a dissenting voice on a general/news board vs shutting down someone behaving badly in a more regulated space. I don’t even want to give the .world moderator who banned me a hard time, because I know how hard it can be trying to figure out what is going on in a conversation that just got reported by a bunch of people. The fact that they reverted it after pushback was enough for me, and hopefully it sets an example for the future.
There’s definitely a separate discussion to be had about the tendency to shut down dissent from the left in centrist/liberal spaces and characterizing it instead as ‘right-wing/russian trolling.’ Maybe that’s more comforting than sitting with the criticism, but I don’t think it’s a productive way to approach political conversations.
I hate how quick world is to mass downvote, accuse of being a russian troll, or just straight up remove comments from people who express any sort of actual left-wing opinion. Reading through that whole comment thread there was nothing you said that came across as trolling. Its kinda exhausting how many people take any criticism of the democratic party as being support for Trump, or believe voting is the most important and only way to change anything. I get closer to just blocking world entirely every day tbh.
.world thinks if you give reasoned arguments, reputable sources, and have a logical criticism of a liberal, you’re actually just a Russian bot, China shill, trump stan, or whatever it is this week.
Being morally consistent is a negative to them and must be punished.
I get closer to just blocking world entirely every day tbh.
Most of my blocklist is .world members, some shitjustworks, some hexbear, some .ml. And then there’s some members from a libertarian instance I never remember.
It doesn’t help that .world is the biggest one, but it feels every single smug asshole who wants to put you on their “internet arguments won comp #13” collection is from .world
This is (among other reasons) why federation was never going to be a good solution . instead of fighting over which site is good and which is bad we are fighting over instances while having the same problems. P2p is the answer
To be clear, jordanlund does not moderate [email protected], but the timing struck me as an odd coincidence.
Just something else I found recently
Oh that is interesting information, thank you!
Oh that would explain a lot lol
I used to think neo-pronouns are kinda silly, and I guess I still kinda do. But there’s no skin off my back to address people in a way that they don’t find hurtful. If people tell me my actions are hurtful to them, I try and take them at face value so long as doing so wouldn’t be hurtful to others or myself. Seems like basic conscientiousness to me.
PTB. You did nothing wrong here.
My beef with neo pronouns is they are used in such a way to weaponize the “political correctness” attitude of some liberal communities
Drag is a good example because they’re a blatant troll, and pretty blatantly try to get anyone who disagrees with them about anything banned for being “transphobic”
Like it’s an obvious bit, it makes the mods and admins look like fools. Drag got banned from hexbear AND .ml for this behavior.
It’s better to live with a few trolls than intentionally make users feel unsafe.
Well that’s just not true. I disagree with Drag all the time.
Drag got banned from hexbear AND .ml
Since when are bans from those instances any kind of reference?
It’s the reason they got banned that’s important, both .ml and hexbear are pretty lgbtq inclusive, and they love a good troll. But they wouldn’t tolerate drag.
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While referring to someone as per their preference is basic manners, not complicating what’s meant to be a simple, pared down system is as well. The mutual respect English-language compromise is, imo, acceptance of the already established non-gendered pronoun “they” by the referrer and the referenced.
People used to call a woman Mrs or Miss depending on her marital status, wasn’t that complicating the communication of a simple system?
Yes.
Isn’t FlyingSquid a mod there? They cooperate with one another, so if you cross one you cross both.
But yeah, doesn’t surprise me. Jordan is the same white dude who said he didn’t support BLM because protests inconvenienced him. He’s a peak liberal Zionist.
Jordan is the same white dude who said he didn’t support BLM because protests inconvenienced him. He’s a peak liberal Zionist.
That stuff was wild
Why are you bringing up his race at all as it is his views that are objectionable not his skin tone.
Have a look at the article yourself: https://www.opb.org/news/series/racenw/race-northwest-united-states-jordan-lund-portland/
It’s not my fault white dudes tend to be the only people complaining about civil rights. If you don’t like people stating facts, then maybe turn on Fox News or sub to Trump on his social media. Then you won’t have to worry about it anymore.
it’s not my fault white dudes tend to be…
So while I don’t actually disagree, I have to point out that this sounds exactly like how racists defence themselves. “It’s not my fault that black people are…”
And again I don’t think that your view is wrong, but I think we should be careful with words
Nah, I’ll continue to call out racism when I see it. There’s no need to bring up his race.
Well, when you write your next comment, don’t do it then. See, that’s how things work. You write your comments, and I write mine.
Isn’t FlyingSquid a mod there?
One will bait, then other will ban to maintain the image of propriety
No, he is not.
Yeah that tracks. Jordan’s one of the worst mods on here.
Every other instance should defederate from .world. Neoliberal fascism is no better than regular fascism.
This is the correct answer.
Yeah. Why voluntarily get the worst part of reddit moderation?
If neoliberals being banned is the worst part of Reddit to you, then you probably need banned too.
I think we’re talking past each other or something. I was meaning that LemmyWorld is a shitty, reddit style, censorship regime. Not that neolibs getting banned is bad.
I personally call them Fascism Lite™
Diet Fascism.
The issue they control some key subs, but yeah I think there is enough evidence that mods on key subs are malicious actors that are working against the fedi thesis
Since when are they neoliberal? I encounter more bleeding heart progressives on that instance than anywhere else. Sorry they don’t pass your purity test but they sure as fuck hate fascists.
Edit: ohhhh haha, I just checked your instance. Yea no wonder they aren’t leftie enough for you, go home tankie 👋
Hello red scare. It’s getting tiring.
You’re a lot of things, but not scary.
Okay I guess? I never wanted to be scary lol
Yeah jordanlund do be doing that.
Banning people because they just tell exactly what is happening 🤦🏻
Go live in trumps ass, lol
This jordanlund seems to be the rare kind of human I hate… (I generally love other people🤭)
I was the one that submitted the ban, after a number of reports. On the face of it (I am at work, so don’t always have time to deep dive), The reports did seem to align with trolling.
I had/have no idea what’s going on withe the Jordan Lund thing.
For what it’s worth I thought I was being respectful in my dissent, I was even keeping my comments to the one thread and not attempting to insult anyone. I’m entirely open to this just being coincidence.
Fair point. I’ll restore the comments and remove the ban
thank you! sorry to raise a stink, I appreciate the quick response!
Caught me on my lunch break, and this is a community I love lurking in.
Thanks!
PTB. I think you are correct in both cases.
I just want to add that it seems to me that about 90% of people accused of trolling on here do not themselves think they are trolling. Something to ponder.
Everybody is the good guy in their own story.
I think this is a related factor but not quite what I’m getting at here.
My understanding of trolling is that it is a deliberate attempt to trigger negative emotional responses and cause trouble. So users should have a good sense of whether they are or are not engaged in trolling.
So either:
A: They are lying about their intentions. B: The community and mods are ascribing ill intentions where there are none. Or C: Different people are using conflicting definitions of trolling.
While A might seem the obvious answer, I think it’s actually far less common than people think. When I go through the histories of people accused of trolling I rarely see clear evidence of it. It’s usually just a person who has a tendency to respond angrily to people they disagree with, or who has a particularly strong disagreement with the community on a particular issue that they feel passionately about.
So I usually chock these cases up to B, and I think this case is a pretty clear example. However I’d also be curious to know if C is at play here, so if you think there is another definition of trolling that differs from mine, please share it.
I’d hope that anyone online enough to become a Lemmy moderator would know better, but plenty of people think trolling means doing absolutely anything anyone might not be entirely happy with online. That definition seems to be the prevailing one on TV and radio news, so people who don’t engage with online culture would pick it up that way. That would cover things like posting a joke which was poorly received, whether it was just terrible or because it was offensive, and whether or not you knew it was potentially offensive.
There’s also the matter of whether trolling is trying to intentionally provoke people specifically by pretending to be an idiot (and looking at Wikipedia, it’s sometimes as an attempt at humour rather than to provoke - e.g. Ken M isn’t trying to upset anyone, but is pretending to be an idiot or misinformed).
So there are plenty of definitions of trolling going around, and it’s plausible that moderators might sometimes use one that’s wildly incompatible with your definition.
I mean, further looking and it’s almost certainly B. I think people like to ascribe ill-intent when they just knee-jerk to disagreement. “Trolling” here was absolutely the wrong choice of verbiage.
Trolling is generally pretext to censor content and or tone of speech
I rarely see trolling here tbh maybe dragon fucker but he is so committed to it, whatever
Really unsurprising considering it involved Israel. News mods usually bend over backwards like the r/worldnews to remove anything slightly critical. Especially when it’s calling out hasbara
Neo lib regime whoring do be like that
PTB. Throwing a fit because you pointed out their blatant transphobia
