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I’m over pointing fingers and playing holy than thou.
The people who plan to build a Hungarian-style autocratic government are in power now, and they’re hoping the left is exhausted and tired of fighting this shit for a decade.
This shit is going to be dangerous, and we’re going to have to motivate people to push back hard than even. Pointing fingers just divides us and makes us even weaker.
That’s a bummer because progressives couldn’t be bothered to stop an erasure of minorities and lgbt alongside a subjugation of women.
Quite simply, either you align with them or you can get fucked.
At least that’s how it’s currently playing out.
Libs couldn’t bother to stop a genocide to stop a fascist
Shortsighted progressives decided that people they dont know halfway around the world were more important than their friends and family.
Hope you can tell your wife/ girlfriend /sister you had the moral high ground when she’s declared property.
Removed by mod
“But mom! I got a gun for self defense, how was i supposed to know that you’d be declared property even though they were screaming it at the top of their lungs?”
Its awesome that my post got removed because they can’t admit that they were DEAD WRONG TO HAVE BEEN CENSORING THOSE CALLING FOR ARMING UP FOR SELF-DEFENSE.
FUCK YOU, MODS
Arming for self defense wont matter when the women in your life aren’t legally allowed to have a bank account.
It will be death by a thousand cuts, but at least you’ll have your guns?
Leftist here. I voted for Kamala. All the leftist media I consumed argued for voting for Kamala. All the leftists I knew vote for Kamala.
What are you talking about?
Leftists are so insignificant that we don’t need to make any concessions to them but so powerful that they are responsible for any Democratic loss.
Leftists are just about the only group that will go around saying they “won’t vote” if there isn’t a candidate making enough concessions to them. Leftists are a small group but they are enough they could sway an election if they came out and made their voices heard by voting instead of just holding signs and yelling. But getting that to happen isn’t as simple as just saying you’re against the genocide, because Harris did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting unions, because she did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ, because she did that and it wasn’t enough.
The right isn’t stupid enough to believe that they can get their oligarchy without winning elections, but belief in incremental change is fundamentally incompatible with a lot of leftist ideology.
Democrats spend far too much time and energy pretending everyone to the left of the Democrats are anti-electoralist anarchists.
getting that to happen isn’t as simple as just saying you’re against the genocide, because Harris did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting unions, because she did that and it wasn’t enough. It isn’t as simple as supporting rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ, because she did that and it wasn’t enough.
Yes. You’re absolutely correct that what the Democrats are doing is not enough. If the DNC can get that through their thick skulls, maybe we have a chance next time.
You can’t just say you support unions.
You can’t just say you’re against genocide.
You have to make people’s lives materially better, and until the Dems choose to do that, we’re in trouble.
everyone to the left of the Democrats are anti-electoralist anarchists.
I’m an anti-electoralist anarchist and I voted for Kamala because I’m not a fucking idiot.
Until I see an exit poll showing that the folks who turned up for Harris were centrists and the left really did sit it out I’m not going to believe anything claims to that effect.
There were a few people on the left (with followings on social media) advocating for third party votes because Kamala wouldn’t say that she was going to stop sending money to Israel.
Post election, it looks like third party votes didn’t spoil anything.
Oh yeah, I was arguing with them all the time. I figured they were bots. Seems like they have all dried up right after the election.
Define “dried up”. The election us over and the country chose fascism. What else is there to argue about?
(Most) Third party voters are like cicadas. They spend the majority of their lives immature and underground. Every 4 years they swarm and die quickly to apathy and despair.
Just like cicadas, third party voters will be heavily affected by climate change.
All the people who didn’t vote against fascism.
Then we’re not talking to you. But a lot of people stayed home and that’s a fact
The DNC would rather lose with a neoliberal than win with a progressive. If they want to get there shit together they have to win with the working class and ordinary people.
They can’t be elitist centrists. They’ll lose every election if they do. The future is now old man
If they go further left they lose every moderate or right leaning Democratic voter don’t they? Why would you want your voter base to get smaller
So is it that leftists are too small a group to be worth making political concessions to, or are they a large enough group to have an effect on elections?
Why do Democrats feel entitled to the support of the left when they don’t offer anything to the left?
I did my job. The democrats had one job too, and they failed.
It’s funny cause back when Biden was VP I kept bringing up how he was a terrible Democrat and we should stop making cute uncle Joe memes, cause he’s actually a horrible person who has hurt a lot of people with his blind drug war. And when I would bring that up, the other leftists would downvote me and call me a right winger, because we’re not allowed to criticize our own n side apparently.
So it’s funny that the same people who used to downvote any criticism of “uncle Joe” are the ones that are now calling anyone a Nazi if they support the Democrats.
Who said Lefts didn’t vote for Harris?
Are you manufacturing this? Where are the exit polls?
Might a better reason for why Fascism won with this election be that Democrats, including Biden, Harris, the DNC, and the consulting class, failed to campaign to their own base, and even more than their base since most Americans, Dems and Reps, approve of progressive policies?
Projection man
Biden got ~81m votes in 2020, Harris only got ~67m. >14m fewer people voted for her.
Trump also dropped by ~2m, only getting ~72m this time around vs. ~74m in 2020.
Trump didn’t win because of a giant right-wing national shift, he won because of voter apathy on the left.
I have to admit that I haven’t delved into the exit polls and analyzed which social groups migrated right or not.
But one thing that’s different about the 2024 election compared to 2020 is that COVID wasn’t happening to the same degree. There were a ton more mail-in ballots 2020 due to social distancing, which helped both parties as a bump in votes.
Why use 2020 as a data point though? Why not 2016? Why not 2012 and 2008? Might those elections be slightly different because a 1-in-100-year pandemic wasn’t happening?
If you compare those numbers, does the Dems’ numbers compare to those elections?
I want to say someone on Lemmy already posted the numbers recently in one of these posts. From what I recall, Dems’ votes returned close to pre-COVID levels albeit a degree lower, yet Reps’ votes were above pre-COVID levels. Why?
Might the explanation be the societal shift towards the right?
And how can you not see the national shift to the right in how the Democrats speak to rallies and voters? We are considerably more right-wing as a country than ever in the recent decades. This election was a Republican primary with how Kamala ran on pre-Trump conservative values and policies.
Maybe apathy exists on the Left because it is increasingly the case that Democrats don’t represent them anymore.
I used 2020 as a comparison for a few reasons;
- It was the most recent result prior to the 2024 election, so it will have the most comparable demographics.
- voting infrastructure from the COVID-era is still largely in place, allowing for more early and postal voting than pre-COVID. So earlier years are less comparable.
- presidential elections are just as much about voting against the worse candidate, if not more-so, than voting for a preferred one.
- both 2020 and 2024 could be seen as referendums on Trump’s policies, presidency and suitability for a second term.
Rather than looking at percentages, the individual counts are more important as they tell the underlying story.
The DNC’s GOTV campaign absolutely failed to motivate their base and undecided voters. Perhaps that was somewhat intentional, as a lot of the former GOP aligned ‘never-Trump’ campaign financiers have shifted to the Dems and have used their new-found influence to nudge the party’s platform rightward. The Cheney endorsements certainly didn’t do them any favours!
But looking at how even deep-red states have voted in support of abortion rights, shows that the general US populace is generally slowly drifting leftward - despite what the corporate-owned media narrative would have you believe.
I’m doing my part! I’m yelling at leftists on the internet!
Yep, that’s why I used my totally meaningless non-swingstate vote for Cornel West.
The libs aren’t actually mad about how people voted because the vast majority of votes don’t matter. They’re mad about the thought crime. They’re mad about being exposed as politicians without principles who aren’t even good politicians. They’re mad that people don’t like their dear leader. Libs like to see themselves are genoius thought leaders of some grand nation instead of just capitalist shills enabling fascism.
There’s some non-zero number of voters who planned to vote for Biden, couldn’t find his name on the ballot, and subsequently filled in the only other name of a President they saw.
“Yeah, he did the job before, he’s got experience…”
Lmao lib shit tally:
Bullshit corporate media reference, check. Blaming the minority for the failure of the party, check Believing politics happens once every four years, check.
I did my part. I voted third party because BOTH PARTIES SUPPORT A FASCIST REGIME COMMITTING GENOCIDE WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS WHILE OUR OWN PEOPLE GO HOMELESS
Cry about it libs! I bet going further right and further ignoring your base will win in 2028! Might as well run Liz Cheney while you’re at it!
Yes that is the not voting against fascism the meme is talking about. You can label not doing your part as doing your part but it’s still not doing your part.
Hey Micheal, corporate needs you to tell the difference between these two pictures.
We wanted to, but kept hearing that voting 3rd party was a “waste”.
Disclaimer: I voted for the lesser fascist and don’t support Stein.
48% of the popular vote went to Kamala.
Tell me more about this Libs didn’t vote thing.
Well, Trump got fewer total votes than last election and still won. So there’s that.
They literally haven’t counted all the votes yet.
To all the infallible unblemished champions of the proletarian revolution who are shitting on “libs”:
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics and Western Political Theory in the Face of the Future, this is the definition of liberalism:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.
In your own words, what do you think “lib” means? And if you’re going with my cited textbook definition, what’s so offensive to you about the tenets that are listed?
Either words’ definitions matter or they don’t, and if they don’t, then none of what you say matters.
Probably not the type of person you are directing the question towards, however, to me “Liberal” when used as a genuine marker of someone’s political philosophy is effectively someone who believes in the status quo, but with slightly more protections for individuals, or relatively minor changes to existing political processes. They refuse to believe that other market or political system options are worthy of attempting or simply do not consider them feasible.
As to the second part,
Either words’ definitions matter or they don’t, and if they don’t, then none of what you say matters.
Unfortunately, definitions change over time or simply aren’t accurate, homosexual used to inaccurately be defined as “sexual orientation disturbance” for example. That definition of liberal also covers things like the ““Classical Liberalism”” movement as liberal, they believe in COMPLETE market deregulation and capitalist “anarchy”, their version of “rights of the individual” is the rights of an individual to do whatever they want to when they have the money to do so, without allowing any government to intervene in any way. This can (and frequently does) include using money to discriminate against other people, that’s something worth fighting against.
Also FWIW, “Neoliberal” is defined by Oxford Languages as “favoring policies that promote free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.”, sometimes when people refer to “libs” they mean neoliberals, and yeah, deregulation and free-market capitalism has been tried, it sucks and deserves to be shat on.
- an anarchist
Libs embraced the Cheneys and told Bernie and Tlaib et al to go fuck themselves.
LibsCorporatist DNC embraced the Cheneys and told Bernie and Tlaib et al to go fuck themselves.
Yes, I’m aware of the “paradox of intolerance”.
You’re doing great comrade; the revolution is one more snarky internet comment and molotov sippy-cup away.
I fucking hate shitlib dictionary lawyering.
Just say you’re gonna fucking ignore what’s happening.
dictionary lawyering
So words don’t matter to you, got it.
Just say you’re gonna fucking ignore what’s happening.
I voted blue up and down the ballot in every election possible in my adult life since 2000, despite the corporatist fellating DNC. I’ve demonstrated. I’ve donated. I’ve written to congressmen. I was in a union earlier in my career.
I’ve been called worse than “shitlib”. Try harder.
Here’s how the corporatist DNC read your vote:
THEY LOVE ME!! THEY REALLY REALLY LOVE ME!!
Should I not have voted?
Democrats continuing to blame everyone but themselves, as usual.
The Democrats could have run a turd as a candidate with the slogan “it’ll be a shit show” and I’d still have voted for them with no regrets, because I understand that fascism is an existential threat. If the Democrats are to blame in any way, it’s because they didn’t try to get people to understand that OH WAIT THEY DID.
Should the Democrats have run a better candidate and a better campaign? Obviously yes. Is it their fault that voters were willing to let a fascist win? Not even a little.
Guess what, not everyone thinks that, and a good politician would actually promise to improve people’s lives instead of continually talking about how bad the other guy is.
Trotting out the least popular Republicans ever as being on your side didn’t help either.
not everyone thinks that
Yes, obviously not everyone thinks fascism is an existential threat. Which is probably one of our greatest failures as a society, in terms of education.
If the democrat party genuinely gave a shit they would of held a primary and nominated a qualified and popular candidate. They didn’t. They don’t care!
the democratic party never fought like it was existential threat and it showed.
I think it’s more “a lot of people would really like someone to significantly change the system of politics, and Trump promised to be a wrecking ball… oh and btw… wtf do you mean Facism. Are you like my Highschool history teacher or something? Isn’t Hitler dead”
So, when you’re running, ostensibly to save democracy, you should probably offer those voters stuff that will turn them out. In 2020 Biden promised them a $2000 check, and that worked (even though he reneged on it afterwards).
The only ones to blame are the Democrats. Trump got less votes than in 2020, so it’s not like he got more popular, the Democrats failed to get their base out. You can’t even blame the Greens this time.
Trump is currently sitting at 75.6 million votes, with a few states still finishing off their counts. His 2020 total was 74.2 million. He’s not only already got more votes than he did in 2020, but he’s on track to eclipse that amount even further. Meanwhile Harris is at 71 million vs Biden’s 81 million. So yeah, Dem voters didn’t show up because the lives of their fellow Americans don’t really mean anything to them, but either some of them flipped for Trump or more people who typically sit out elections showed up for him. The numbers show Trump did get more popular. This is apparently what our country wants.
I don’t think that MAGA is an existential threat to democracy, or to Americans’ lives. If it were, Pres. Biden would do something about it, right? Like, maybe, lock them up. Or at least say so. He certainly wouldn’t be planning to just hand over the reins and walk away.
(P.S. If you can’t tell if the above is serious, then why couldn’t millions of voters actually think this way?)
That democrats weren’t even willing to budge on their support for genocide means that they don’t actually mind fascism. They can scream on and on about how dangerous trump is, but when they’re kissing dick cheney’s ass and trying to court other such “moderate” fascists, then they’re just full of shit. So yes, it is largely the fault of democrats, who are the only other viable party in the country, for not fighting fascism. They set themselves up as the only solution and then failed to get the votes. Reminder that this is the same party boosting the campaigns of far-right candidates just so they can point at how crazy their opponents are. All they’re accomplishing is helping out the fascist cause, which again, democrats don’t seem to mind based on their actions.
They didn’t “set themselves up as the only solution.” We have First Past the Post voting, that’s just how it works.
If they didn’t set themselves up to be the only solution then they should disband so another party could do so.
Prepare to lose again 2028 with this attitude.
I’ve reached across the aisle to vote for a conservative for 3 elections now against Trump. It would be nice if centrists and conservatives did the same.
If anything non-voter related is to blame, it’s the global economy which has shifted every single developed country away from the party in charge. But that doesn’t excuse the non-voters.
Now let’s get Ukraine everything we possibly can and put as much pressure on Israel as possible.
You’re defending the people who embraced the Cheneys and told Bernie and Tlaib to get fucked. Cutting off money and weapons to Israel- who represent only 2.4% of the US population- to end a genocide was the easiest possible win imaginable.
If by “defending” you mean “placing blame where it belongs” then yeah.
Like, if a serial killer has killed ten people then gets charged with killing an eleventh, but he didn’t, then I’d “defend” him too because the person who actually did the crime is still out there and should be held accountable.
You’re making it out as if I’m trying to say the serial killer didn’t murder anybody. That’s not what I’m saying.
The Democrats fucked up, big time. But it’s the electorate who let a fascist win.
You would, but millions of Americans wouldn’t. Those Americans act out of self-interest, and the economy was the biggest pain point with most voters this past election.
Instead of catering to the middle class, what Dems’ base has been historically, Harris campaigned to business owners with tax incentives/breaks.
Democrats failed. Hell, Harris could have even lied just as Obama did to get Democrats and moderates to believe that she represents them. But she didn’t!
I’m with you that fascism is alive and well in the states, no doubt.
But you have to see that years of “fascist” accusations from anyone even slightly left has watered down any impact that language might have had. Most people who are and have been on the receiving end of that accusation just roll their eyes when they hear the word - regardless if it’s true or not. It comes off to them as a “blue hair” reee-ing.
Just letting you know most people don’t take it with the same gravity any more. To most people “real” fascism was a 1940’s thing, and fascism now is just an insult throw around by keyboard warriors and “SJWs” - whom they find annoying and pathetic.
The term, however appropriate, doesn’t affect people’s political decisions as much as you would think.
R’s have learned to change their boogiemen occasionally while keeping them substantially similar. Is DEI or CRT substantially different then “Political correctness gone wild”? Not even a little. But it feels new.
You’re right, that is a thing they do.
I see my original comment got at least one down vote because we’re still in the “denial” phase. It’s the truth though: most people, however wrong they may be, view the fascist label as just another flippantly-tossed insult not to be taken seriously.
