guess you don’t care that much if all it takes for our country to implode is you won’t even inform your congress critters you support an embargo on arms to israel. all you need to do is send 3 easy emails to your congress critters. go on I know you can do it. remember you can still vote for her, myself and 40k people minimum in a swing state might not until she commits to not supporting a genocide. you can help push her over the line she’s almost there.

remember you don’t care what happens in gaza, this should be easy for you. you can get what you want (my vote for kamala) and I can get what I want, less murdering in my countries name. seems like a win win and what politics is all about friend.

after all a country that supports genocide isn’t a country worth having. 🤷

edit:

edit 2: I’ll make it easy for everyone -

Hello congress critter,

I’m writing today to inform you that I’d like to see harris put out a press statement that she’ll follow the law as outline in leahy and will enforce an arms embargo in israel for war crimes and genocide before the end of october. if she doesn’t I can’t ensure I will vote for her. I want to but her inability to pass a basic human decency bar of ‘won’t support a genocide’ is kind of a bare minimum pre-req for the office which the biden admin has failed at. No one is saying we won’t protect israel, we just won’t let them commit a genocide’

ah so few make this connection. =) 👋 nice to meet you.

sadly genocide is still in her list of allowable behaviors. its too bad really. hopefully she comes to her senses by the end of next week when I send my ballot in. its just sitting here waiting for her to sort her shit out. but its clear shes starting to get the message if she felt the need to go on fox and with the biden admin attempting to gaslight their voter base with the 30 day threat to israel that conveniently puts them after the election. which no one is fooled by.

remember everyone: email your congress critters and let them know you don’t support arms to israel whiles its committing a genocide. lets get harris on track so this nonsense stops and we can vote for her.

Yes and central planning is inherently unstable and inefficient. So you’re back to my original points that he doesn’t know what hes talking about.

Again you dont understand the implications of his system because you dont even know what metrics to use to advocate for it. Personally any system that optimizes for gdp or manipulated approval ratings as a measure of a healthy and fluroishing society design has lost the thread and doesnt know how to live.

As i told you earlier you want to convince me tell what you want to accomplish with your government and then we can discuss the metrics youd use. But so far you’ve demonstrated either: you’re absolutely clueless about how systems fail/get corrupted, what the metrics you’re using actually measure, and how they translate into behavior of the people living under those systems.

Essentially you’ve demonstrated you want to live in an authoritarian dictatorship. Hard pass.

Sorry hit submit prematurely;) its all there now. And i dont need to read your drivel because your premises are faulty.

I dont need to put my hand in shit to know its shit. The smell was more than enough.

Edit: also you think you need numbers oi. Fun fact once you understand how systems work you dont need the measurements to know if they’ll work. The measurements are just to prove the system works as intended.

First you need to identify what your goals are for the system. The fact your spouting gdp and manipulated approval rates were sufficient indicators that you have nfc what you’re talking about or your goals are not compitable with mine for society.

I mean thats a you goal. I have no issue with harris winning she just wont get my support until she commits to enforcing leahy or keeping kahn. Which the biden/harris admin blinked yesterday on israel. Give it a few more days maybe send your own letter in support of arms embargo to your reps and help get them to do the right thing eh?

Your response shows you may have read things but you dont understand them or systems. The fact your think PRC actually has that level approval invalidate literally anything you said. I dont bother reading the drivel you spouted after that. I may glance over it in the future.

Things you need to understand before you step on to the stage with me: metrics and measurements are only meaningful if you understand how they were measured. Which you clearly dont if you’re spouting gdp and prc approval rates as a proof points.

As i said originally marx didnt understand systems or people. His conclusion that its easier to seize centralized systems is 100% correct but he also advocates for such a system to replace the system he identifies as unstable. Which is logically hilarious foolish and in no way ensures a better outcome for workers. As the chinese im sure would tell you if they were not petrified of saying anything negative about the prc.

Like i said it takes months of effort to deprogram someone like youself and frankly its not worth the effort. Carry on soldier. Ill have the bandages ready when you invariably get bloodied.

Sigh. if you’re going to be so insistent. first lets start with tossing out GDP as a metric its useless. it measures production not happiness/societal fullfillment. those two things are very different. If you want to use china as a pillar of socialist utopia… well, sorry thats not going to fly.

secondly: at least use comparable countries. comparing the USSR to the UK and on top of it using percentages. my god. did anyone teach you anything about maths?

(the problem is in what 0% represents as a baseline the higher the baseline is the less room it has to grow, and the USSR and the UK didn’t start out at the same baseline)

third: cite your sources if you want to play the numbers game.

fourth: you and I clearly have different definitions of central planning, you have a particular definition and mine is a general ‘small number of people making the calls’ both late stage capitalism and what you’re article you linked to are the same thing in all but how those individuals are selected. to me there is no difference there. they’re both equally bad ideas.

You’re foolish because you think marx had the answers to the problem of the class war. he didn’t… You’re never going to convenience people to risk dramatic upheaval. Most people are not wired that way. hence marxist ideas and in particular the revolutionary followers such as yourself dont understand human nature. The US is not at that point yet, it has to get significantly worse for such triggers to be effective.

re central planning: late stage capitalism and you’re marxist idea of public property are the same levels of centralized planning. the fact you don’t realize that is… sad. again you also don’t need such a system. it limits diversity in ideas and development. even if you take over the means of production in a capitalist economy, who says you’re going to do any better than the current crop of oligarchs? fundamentally I don’t believe you will.

also the very same weakness of capitalism you hope to exploit are the same weakness your society will have because its just as centralized. I really hope you realize this.

As for the PRC… its not even 100 years old yet; and has a fair amount of problems; primarily the fact its run by a dictator. the USSR didn’t last a 100 years. so lets just say if those are your examples for thriving socialist countries I’ll pass on your vision.

Essentially my fundamental point is you need to figure out how to build the system without centralized planning and organization and a robust immune system to bad actors; and marxist from everything i’ve seen/been shown isnt that.

how to clarify the two adjectives I used for marxism and yourself mmmm… I’ll try but these are things I usually spend months on deprogramming people like yourself.

idealistic: thinking you can just wrest away control from capitalists without broad support, which you certainly don’t have, and the naive assumption your central planners will be better than the current catch we already have. No thanks winni I’ll pass.

inflexible: soon as your centralize anything in a system you make it harder to experiment or course correct. why? because everything that depends on that centralize system needs to be changed in order to support the changes. lets take something as simple as deciding to build a park. if public spaces are centrally planned then who decides what kind of park it is? me? my neighbor? my town? my state? what about what gets researched? who gets the supplies to do their research? what if the individual doing the resource allocation is corrupt or doesn’t understand the new ideas? what if they find a particular approach like fetal stem cells objectionable?

and the personal attack is because you’re as inflexible as marx was in his thinking you think he had the answers and you rely on him as an authority and puritan authority. sorry but appeals to authority don’t matter to me. You shouldn’t need to appeal to marxism to demonstrate the validity of your ideas. tell me what particular bits you plan on changing and how. the good thing about living in a democracy is you can effect these things at a local level. the PSL is doomed from the start because it doesn’t understand the problems or the people its trying to convince and as a result it doesn’t understand how to manipulate systems and there isn’t wide spread repression (yet) to get people angry enough to be supportive.

Now I’ve spent enough time corresponding with you and I’m going back to fiddling with my mushrooms they’re far more interesting than talking to a soldier tripping over their own firearm in their enthusiasm. but I suggest you research into using random processes and their effects on creating robust systems, there are examples in compute science, biology, law, governance, maybe it’ll enlighten you the the power of distributed systems over centralized. 👋

because I dont give a shit about marxist. its mostly nonsense. he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems. just because you’re blinded doesn’t mean every socialist is as foolish. centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption they foster. like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it’ll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.

edit: now i was a little terse there sorry. anyways I dont need you to give me an expose on marxism. its strictly unnecessary. is where the PSL is claiming to require a planned economy. which is a bad idea and thats what I was reacting to; its what we have today and its ripe for corruption. any socialist movement is going to have to learn to reject centralized structures beyond a certain size.

if the goal is to prevent wealth accumulation/ensure the needs of the workers are met, there are other methods to do so that dont require a planned economy.

now I suggest you go spend your efforts on another individual, theres no more play here for you. but again I recommend PSL spend its effort on state level efforts and show their model can work. there is some okayish ideas there they just need to prove them first but there is also a lot of things we already have available.

quick scan looks like a non-starter for me but good luck! anything where economy is centrally managed is a horrible idea, and something marx got very wrong its essentially what we have now just with a different person in charge. 🤷

you’re welcome to link to resources. I checked out her campaign site it wasn’t interesting and i explained why each point will fail. I dont particularly care to spend my time beyond that digging to decide if she was is worth my time, determined she isn’t. The campaign site is incoherent as far as plans go. if you want to goal post shift to PSL in general feel free to do so and i’ll tell you what i think but otherwise. 🤷 if you want support you need to do the effort to earn it. ;)

She isn’t doing destruction for destruction’s sake.

absolutely is unless there is a plan to replace the system. hence all of my original points around her lack of coherent plans that address actual needs of the people. breaking the current system without sound ideas on how the new system will operate is destruction for destruction sake. You don’t tear your house down without a alternative place to shelter. but keep waving your flag on the hill, I’lll bring you a picnic basket and chill with you. =)

You have yet to explain any of this.

I dont need to, those are my opinions you can take or leave them as you will. or just watch the election play out and get your answer. =)

You’re attempting to make a distinction that is immaterial to the end result, as your own article admits. like i said shes more than welcome to run, she just won’t get any support which is what she needs. destruction for destruction sake doesn’t work, nor does it ensure the end result.

like I said, I suspect Claudia has a back bone, what revolutionary doesn’t? she is just doomed to failure because she doesn’t know how to conduct a revolution and will be unable to gain support because she refused to find levers to pull and instead just swings a hammer, because shes hurt and angry. If thats your jam by all means vote for her, but be aware ignoring the facts i just presented makes you just as blind as harris is. :)

incorrect, Im a socialist. she just doesn’t know how to be effective at getting the change we all desire; and I doubt she’ll be good as a president. shes hurt and angry and lashing out. she should run locally for a governor position and prove she knows how to develop and build worker run cooperatives before trying her hand at the national stage.

the first step is following khan by breaking non-competes, then provide support and resources for worker run organizations.

you’re upset I deconstructed your entire position in a couple of paragraphs and think burying your head in the sand will resolve the obvious problems with your positions. (hint: they won’t)

learn how to influence your politicians. voting for them when they dont support your interests doesn’t work. being afraid of their opposition doesn’t work. What have you done to fix FPTP voting issues? What have you done to prevent genocides?

I only quoted a single sentence you’re entire post was predicated on it. you’re the only moron because you lack contextual awareness; unlike the Palestinians in swing states. Good on them and I wish them the best of luck, I’m rooting for them and emailing my congress critters so they know that harris doesnt have my support is she continues her israel non-sense and issues with khan.

edit: seems like the pressure is working now harris just needs to come out and say she’ll continue the enforcement of leahy and a cessation of hostilities. keep up the good work people few days left.

literally every single one she listed… she’s certainly not a unifying figure that socialism needs. she isnt dog whistling shes full throat fog horning and poorly.

The 100 largest corporations in America should be seized from their billionaire owners and turned into public property.

good luck. that’ll take years and won’t fly for a lot of people. nor will it fix the problem. all its doing is triggering an immediate immune response from the unthinking masses. Nor does it address daily issues working american’s are experiencing. I understand what shes going for, but she doesn’t know how to accomplish it effectively.

Overthrow the Dictatorship of the Rich — Build a Democracy That Serves the Working Class

sigh… same problem as above. removing the FBI and NSA will have little to no material impact on working americans.

End the Rule of Money and Lock Up the Corrupt Elite

yeah okay. again get what shes going for but non of that can be accomplished without a supportive congress. What to over throw the system? great I’m right there with you. but have an actual workable plan.

End All U.S. Aid to Apartheid Israel. End the Genocide and Free Palestine & Cut the Military Budget by 90% — Peace, Not War with China & Russia!

sigh. so completely cripple our economy, and trade one relatively friendly genocidal country for two unfriendly genocidal countries. sounds like a great plan.

End the war on black america.

sigh reparations, i get it i really do. but its just another aspect of the race war and sadly black americans are not yet populous enough to pull it off. could just as easily have said ‘build a social safety net to support working americans’

Defend Women’s rights, full equality for lgbtq people

again great cause, but lacks the acume to identify the levers to pull to make it a reality.

Save the planet from capitalism

sigh. again just isolating herself from many american’s who believe in capitalism.

na, it just demonstrates the yours/the artists inability to act independently from a group. what have you done to change the voting system? probably nothing. so take your nonsense elsewhere.

yawn absolutely false. You have other options. you’re just too afraid to exercise them. That’s a you issue, you are willing to put up with harris/biden committing genocide and breaking strikes because you’re scared of trump. I’m not. and yes, I’m aware of the mathematics behind FTFP. sadly fortunately they dont apply in my state.

1. write to your congress critters telling them to support weapon bans and to push harris. I’ve done this have you?
2. ensure your local government is well populated with non-maga’s. I’ve done this have you?

You’re controlled by fear. I’m not. My state is well insulated from trump and SCOTUS. If democrats and harris want to win they need to enforce the leahy act at a minimum. If harris wants to be the law and order candidate then she needs to move on these issues. she won’t sadly but thats a her problem, not a me problem.

You also clearly dont understand ‘both sides’ critique. there are clear differences between the candidates. harris is clearly superior. she just isn’t superior enough to overlook committing genocide and breaking strikes. for you she clearly is. that is a you issue.

Thankfully you can write whatever name you wish in that box. feel free to exercise your right to remain uncommitted.

narrator: and then, under harris, it continued to get worse.

biden admin is about to cause an regional outbreak of war. causing our friends and family to be pulled into it. all because he wouldn’t redirect a few boats to ukraine. I have 0 interest in trump but harris needs to pull her head out of her ass and commit to enforcing the leahy law w/ israel.