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Honestly, not checking in on each other.
There are a lot of stereotypes in this thread, and some I’ve encountered, some I haven’t. But I do know that there is an epidemic of loneliness among men, and it is very real and sometimes deadly.
Damn, this needs to be at the top.
Of mind. Seriously. Reach out to your buddies you haven’t heard from in a few weeks. And don’t stop doing that. They’ll appreciate it, and so will you.
Agreed even just sending a stupid meme or a joke shows you were thinking of them and can be a lighthearted convo starter.
Gonna take the hit on this one: a Joe Rogan bro. You probably know what I’m talking about, but to be more clear: aggro “alpha male,” gym rat or has a weirdly intense workout routine, takes a bunch of supplements, ready to believe anything pitched as “they don’t want you to know this,” weird diets of meat, “edgy” humor that’s more nodding and agreeing with prejudices than being funny, etc. Oh and listens to Joe Rogan willingly.
There’s nothing toxic about working out and getting strong, taking supplements etc. As long as you’re not harming yourself or other people then I see nothing wrong with it.
My dearly beloved ham casserole, I don’t going to the gym was the toxic trait here.
I wish someone would call me their dearly beloved ham casserole.
My dear lasagna.
My delicious Thai food.
Heh I picked this habit up from a friend of mine who’s actually also on Lemmy, so there’s at least two of us here who use weird food-based insults (?). If you say something a bit silly in a comment you might still get your chance!
Then why mention it?
Because it’s likely the first thing you notice and then you look for the harmful secondary traits.
Like a guy that has a really short fuse with himself. He might just have really high expectations for himself…… buuuuut once you notice that first trait, you keep your eyes out for the secondary ones, where he has a shorter fuse with others.
This guy takes care of himself …better keep an eye on 'em.
Because it’s part of the mix of traits that that kind of group tends to have. It’s not one of the toxic ones but its part of the ones used to identify them.
It’s a stereotype. It’s designed for mental shortcuts. But then it also casts a much wider net than it ought to and ends up harming innocent people.
Someone thinking that you kind of look like a Joe Rogan bro until they get to know you is not what I would personally classify as harm.
It’s a stereotype
Without going too far down the slippery slope: stereotypes exist for a reason. Nissan driver? No insurance, late on car payment, dead-end job. Furry? Gay or bi, nerdy, works in IT or STEM. Boomer? Can’t operate a computer to save their life, is angry and scared about electric cars and renewable energy, their house cost $30k and they don’t realize why kids these days don’t have one.
There’s outliers, sure, but…
Its a package deal with this personality type
It really isn’t. Lots of people who listen to Joe Rogan don’t work out. Lots of people who work out don’t listen to Joe Rogan.
I do neither, though I am planning to start working out to lose some body fat and try to strengthen my bad ankle.
whoosh.
The description wasn’t “any one of the above”, it was “all (or most) of the above”.
Making fun of people for admitting they don’t know things.
I wish more guys just said they didn’t know something instead of clearly not knowing what they’re talking about and running their mouth based on vibes
A friend of mine keeps doing this. He’ll pretend to be an expert of fucking anything, and you can generally tell immediately that he doesn’t know shit. When he goes on about things that I actually do know things about it’s unbearable, and of course his ego is too fragile to handle being told he’s wrong.
We have a lot of impressive common friends with awesome general knowledge, and I frequently wonder how the hell we have the patience to keep him around. My general knowledge is shite, but at least I’m quite open about being ignorant.
He’s hyper sensitive about social situations, yet introducing him to new people is almost always embarrassing.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, he is a professional psychologist.
Your friend is Jordan Peterson
Thank god he is guaranteed to hate Jordan Peterson - he has redeeming qualities as well. But reading back my comment it’s uncanny how much it sounds like him.
Wait what’s wrong with psychologists? I respect them for not killing themselves from having to deal with other people’s psychological problems.
Yeah, it’s an important and challenging job, and I have several friends who are psychologist.
It is, however, a bit of a stereotype that a lot of people who choose to become psychologists are often to some degree themselves viable clients. Perhaps wanting to understand themselves is a motivation to study it in the first place.
They can still do an amazing job, but I think a lot of psychologist find themselves in a Pagliacci situation where they can help anyone but themselves.
I know one of these. He’s extremely insecure and has other issues but he will talk about ANYTHING as if he were an expert
I have a friend like this but he’s fortunately self aware enough to confess that he just like lecturing when you call him on something. It’s almost endearing
In eighth grade I got into an argument on the bus, precursor to the Internet, with a kid about my ignorance of sex. He drew a picture of a diaphragm and ridiculed me for not knowing what it was.
Customers hitting on people at their job.
Was eating lunch at a bar one time when three dude bros came in and started hitting on the bartender. They weren’t overly aggressive but it was obnoxious.
She handled it really well. She looked each of them in the eye, smiled, introduced herself and shook each of their hands in turn. She stated she was a professional and appreciated being treated like one. She was friendly but firm.
Shut them right the fuck up. They behaved much better after that.
She has done countless subsequent women a huge favour.
This one’s a pet peeve, especially if the person is with me. IMO it’s one of the simplest ways to discover your friend likely has zero game with people who aren’t paid to be nice to them.
ETA: In case you feel called out and are wondering “What, so bartenders and waitstaff are totally off-limits?”
Of course not! You can shoot your shot, just try to keep it holstered until you’re (1) on even footing instead of a customer-host advantage and (2) aren’t cornering them in a place they must stay to make a living. For example, you could hold off until the bill is paid and/or they’re off the clock, then ask for digits on your way out (signaling you have no intention of bothering them further if there’s no interest) or give your number so the ball is fully in their court. Of course, if they shoot their shot first, rules of engagement are suspended. Mine did and she’s alright I guess. The above are her suggestions.
The need to make everything into a competition or to one-up any story or anecdote.
That’s nothing!
Ever seen a group of guys stuck in a terminal one-downsmanship spiral of mutual unaccountability?
It’s epic bro. Totally blows the doors off your example.
That reminds me of a story, buddy and me fell overboard and when someone threw us a lifesaver he bet me I couldn’t lap the boat before getting rescued. Long story short we did six laps and we’re both dead now.
Oh yeah?? Well, when I fall overboard, I drown! (Because I can’t swim)
Ngl that’s pretty hardcore
I know plenty of women who do the same
Case in point.
Were talking about the fellas, why even bring this up besides as some weird defensive thing?
I’d say because if we’re trying to find things unique to guys it’s relevant to point out when it isn’t unique.
That’s the joke.
I hope.
Well, men do it better
BUT THE WAHMENS
I know more jk
Needing to be not just right but the most right person in the room about everything
2 former coworkers of mine who always the smartest person they know. One of em lives alone and you can tell he’s never lost an argument (with himself in his head) and anytime he tries to back up his opinion it’s always the same “it’s dumb, it’s stupid, it doesn’t make sense it’s not LoGiCaL”. But anytime you try to chime in…he talks over you.
The other is one of those “I read both sides of the story so I know far far more than you”…who was a one of those reddit knowitalls.
There can only be one
Guy at work always starts sexist shit when no other women are around, maybe wanting to built camaraderie or something? Toxic masculinity is a myth. Women all want the bad boys. No thanks we can avoid the 1:1 convos from now on.
Ugh.
If you consciously change your behaviour once there’s no women around… Yeah, chances are you won’t see me again unless I’m absolutely forced to.
It’s like some people think they’re contractually obliged to make a sexist joke or some shit. Thankfully I don’t meet these people often.
Guy at work always starts saying sexist shit when no other women are around
I misread that as sexiest shit at first and was super confused. “Damn they must be working with some gay ass motherfuckers.”
This is a pattern I’ve seen repeatedly.
Guys find themselves desperate to get laid, and that desperation comes across in all of their interactions with women, who don’t like feeling that they’re being treated like a vending machine, which leads to the guy being rejected for reasons that he doesn’t entirely understand.
He gets in a relationship with someone, finally, and everything is great for a while. Then he realizes that women are talking and flirting with him more than they ever have before, and isn’t sure why, but he enjoys it. He doesn’t understand that, because he is in a relationship, he has stopped being desperate and weird, and is now actually having real conversations with women about mutually interesting topics.
Surrounded by women that are (seemingly) available, he either breaks up with his SO, asks for some sort of open arrangement, or tries to cheat. Unfortunately, for reasons that he still doesn’t understand, as soon as he’s available for sex, women start being turned off by him again (if not to quite the degree they were before) and, again, he finds it difficult to get laid.
From here, guys often fall into some incel-style evolutionary psychology explanation for things, regularly cheat on everyone that they’re with, or gradually becomes aware of the pattern.
If they become aware of the pattern, they can begin to manage it and reduce the desperate, salesman vibe that they give off. As they become more confident and relaxed, it becomes clear to women that they’re perfectly comfortable going home alone or just being friends, which allows them to have more meaningful relationships and, incidentally, more sex with people they like.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED Talk on the origin and mating behavior of the involuntarily celibate.
Problem # 2,846 that would be solved if everyone wasn’t so hung up on monogamy
With polyamory, Brokeback Mountain is a light hearted comedy about some queer friends who like to escape to the woods sometimes.
I think you’re confusing incels with dudebros
I have a coworker who is walking checklist of toxic traits and red flags. Here are the highlights:
- only helps attractive younger women or men who can do favors for him
- sticks his nose into situations that he has no business with
- tends to work on high visibility projects while ignoring his actual job
- has a BT speaker that requires wheels and extended handle and plays his shitty music loudly
- honestly thinks he’s all that and a bag of chips
LMAO Bluetooth speaker on wheels.
wtf @ the bluetooth wheelie
- honestly thinks he’s all that and a bag of chips
ಠ_ಠ
Naturally, you are the one and true Bag of Chips
Factory standard self-centered douchebag™
An egocentric attitude, like they’re the main character. Super fucking annoying.
Bragging about sexual conquests.
If I wanted to know about your sex life I’d ask for your Only Fans.
O Hai, how is your sexlyfe?!
Oh hi, Mark.
It has to be
Hailol. Nothing else conveys the Wiseau-nessYeah I hear that.
Do you know about life???
Constantly questioning other men’s sexuality.
Bro its 2024, MIND YOUR DAMN BUISNESS.
My uncle who asks which peloton instructors I like informing me that he only picks the hot ones.
Like, you’ve been married to a woman for 30 years. I get it, you’re straight.
Just wish they wouldn’t have to shove it down our throats all the time
Not really exclusive to men; women thirsting after hot fitness instructors is a whole trope
Being afraid to ask for help, and general pride issues.
Not a guy, but the one that really gets me is willfully incompetence - particularly around household or family chores (and the mental load associated with them).
It’s called “brokedishing” and choosing the right dish to break is an art form.
Damn, that’s way catchier than weaponized incompetence.
I work from home so I typically do the majority of the cleaning; I don’t mind because I’m a bit of a clean freak anyway.
What I found odd is when my wife’s family from Mexico were visiting she turned into a maid and would shoo me away from things like washing a single dish (for example).
Not sure if it was cultural or what but it definitely threw me off — I don’t want her family thinking I’m making her do everything all the time.
100% a cultural thing. Depending on what part of Mexico they’re from, she may not want them to know that you do any chores. If a woman can’t handle all of the chores herself, it’s seen as a failing.
Super fucked up, but Latin America is in fact super fucked up.
Oh, that’s interesting. Could be a family thing. Could also be just a good host thing.
Yeah, sorry but this one is just counterproductive. Guys just don’t give a fuck. No one is going around “ooh, what if I pretend I can’t do this task so she then has to do it”. That’s just patriarchy and gender roles for you. Maybe try to have a conversation about the subject of chores without sticking the “you’re evil” tag on the other person. Well, for anything in life really. Also mental load is there for anyone, I see no point in bringing it up in this context. The dudes have to deal with a fair share of mental load as well, specially with all the emotional neglect and immaturity.
“Guys don’t give a fuck.”
That’s it. That’s the toxic trait right there.
This is why I think weaponized incompetence is a better term than willful incompetence.
I don’t think it’s even always intentional, conscious, or willful. It’s just, well, “not giving a fuck”, and getting away with it because women are always around to deal with their shit.
Prepared to be roasted alive for this opinion but studies (undoubtedly of white, middle class, US undergrads) seem to indicate women find clutter and messes more psychologically distressing than men do.
I’m a man but I’ve had many deadbeat guys as roommates and I am definitely far more bothered by messes and clutter than they were so I kind of get this.
If you are the “mind it more” person, you will find yourself rage cleaning because the other person can wait you out as long as they want if they are taking you for granted and not concerned you’ll leave over this.
So there are two toxic traits here:
-
A willingness to wait out chores even if you know it’s angering people you are with.
-
A kind of willful blindness. “Honestly, I didn’t think it was that bad.”
The second one might be worse.
The first is excusable (plausible deniability) with the “men are oblivious” defense if the aggrieved party is not being overt in their request that a chore be done.
The second is a person (some women obviously do this, too) refusing to learn to empathize and recognize when things are getting to the point where it’s bothering the other person. From an interpersonal perspective this is probably more infuriating over the years.
I think you have a point, and it is indeed something different - if two people live together and simply have different preferences or care about different things, it’ll of course lead to some friction.
I think this goes both ways in most relationships. I keep bothering my girlfriend about the bathroom sink and the office desk we share; she complains about me keeping half dirty (half clean) clothes in a pile in the bedroom. That’s not what it’s about, though I think it can get easily confused.
It’s more about the “I don’t know how to use the washing machine/book bus tickets/change bags in the vacuum cleaner/cook a pie/change bedsheets/clean the toilet/make a vinegrette/change diapers/whatever”, where instead of an emphasis on learning the skill it’s only left to the other person.
It’s not all men, but it is common. I think it’s a systematic issue that men don’t carry the full responsibility for. They’re raised by mothers who do everything for them, and while their sisters are taught how to take care of themselves they are simply left to “be boys”. And then they go out in the world and find a woman who can effectively replace their mothers.
It’s the kind of guys who move away from home but keep going back to their mothers whenever they need laundry done.
I think the first trait is worse than the second. Waiting to do a chore knowing (1) it needs to be done, and (2) the other person will do it if you hold out long enough is such a jerk move. Although the second isn’t awesome either. I think it is safe to say, don’t do either of these things.
The second is
a personTWO PEOPLE refusing to learn to empathize and recognize when things are getting to the point where it’s bothering the other person.ftfy. I’m sick of society always thinking that men have to learn how to be cleaner. Maybe women should learn how to not freak out over a little mess sometimes.
The onus should not be 100% on men to change. It should be a compromise, and part of it is women learning to relax and undo the ingrained “everything must look perfect” toxic baggage that they have, just as much as men need to learn not to live in a pigsty just because mom isn’t around to clean up after you.
-
Agree about it not always being explicitly thought about. Weaponed also seemed to imply some sort of thought to me, but I couldn’t land on a good word.
“Guys don’t give a fuck.”
That’s it. That’s the toxic trait right there.
I worry you may be misinterpreting the phrase in its particular context, and I’d hate to see that happen.
Kudos for weaving in the toxic trait of infantilizing women.
What in the Sam Hill …
