Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate… considering the alternative
He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for
I’ll vote for biden unless he drops out and a more progressive candidate presents itself, in which case I won’t vote biden.
Man I love love love not being from the US.
I live in Canada, 15 km from the US border. When shit kicks off down there millions of them could come north expecting that Canada will welcome them with open arms. We will be unable to feed or house them. Many will die of exposure in the first winter. They should go south and hope that Mexico will take them in.
It’s actually the other way around. Things are getting so bad in Canada that emigration to the US is at a 10 year high
I’m not sure if you completely missed my point or if hating Canada is so big a part of your identity now that you just can’t miss any opportunity to spread that Rusian and Chinese anti-Canadian propaganda.
“everything I don’t like is propaganda” - Typical Lemmy user
No, what I said is true. You’re Canadian, how do you not know this?
Source: CBC
Tens of thousands of Canadians are emigrating from Canada to the United States and the number of people packing up and moving south has hit a level not seen in 10 years or more, according to data compiled by CBC News.
There’s nothing new about Canadians moving south of the 49th parallel for love, work or warmer weather, but the latest figures from the American Community Survey (ACS) suggest it’s now happening at a much higher rate than the historical average.
http://cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-moving-to-the-us-hits-10-year-high-1.7218479
Actual reasons cited in the article: Lower taxes, higher wages, affordable housing, dislike of Trudeau’s politics, cheaper groceries, increasing crime rates, increasingly disappointing healthcare system, and warm weather
Whether you agree or disagree with these reasons is irrelevant. The point is that trend is there and it’s accelerating. So to your tongue in cheek point about Americans mass migrating north, that likely won’t happen because the opposite trend is occurring as we speak.
Nice straw man. Typical propagandist.
Cost of Living in United States is 8.6% higher than in Canada (without rent)
Cost of Living Including Rent in United States is 14.1% higher than in Canada
Rent Prices in United States are 26.0% higher than in Canada
Restaurant Prices in United States are 8.7% higher than in Canada
Groceries Prices in United States are 5.2% higher than in Canada
But by all means, go on spreading your propaganda.
I’m not arguing for or against, I’m just pointing out the fact that emigration trend from Canada to the US is happening and it is at a 10 year high. I merely pointed out the reasons cited in the article as I clearly stated.
I love in Canada but have worked for US companies and worked internationally for 15 years. I would never, ever move to the US. Ever.
My belief is that the people moving to the US are moving there for, “freedumb” (no realizing that Canadians enjoy more actual freedom and have better protection of their rights than Americans do) I’m I’m more than ok with that.
As someone living around the Timmins area, we’ve imported some hot climate individuals and still have room, send them up! The Northlander should be running by then /fingers crossed/
I’m in Europe and things aren’t really better here… Putin on the east, LePen and Meloni on the west…
Communists supporting a fascist? What is this Berlin in 1933?
Considering that Biden’s main competitor is an actual neonazi and the USA have an undemocratic election system that disadvantages all but two parties, there’s pretty much no choice but the senile grandpa who’s not a neonazi.
Still voting Biden, but this feels an awful lot like many past elections where people are holding their nose and voting for a candidate they don’t necessarily like just because they don’t like the other candidate. Those elections never seem to turn out good.
I’m not sure if OP understands what a Tanky is.
In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.
-Hannah Arendt, German-American philosopher and political theorist, in fuckin 1964 lmao. some things never change!
Biden loses
OP blames the 5 tankies actually living in the USA for voting 3rd party
I was planning to blame Russian Internet robots
Or you could except that that the D party sometimes runs shit tir candidates.
accept
And yes, everyone already knows that.
Thank you for your ableism
And no, the ‘problem’ is always people didn’t vote for their shit candidates & not that they ran a shit candidate.
stirrrrrtt
They should have been preparing a replacement for Biden since he was sworn into office.
Now… Who really knows. There’s so much at stake for more than the presidency. If the choices are between a 78 year old felon under multiple indictments who is only out for himself, and an 81 year old who wants to better the country but is, well, 81… I’ll take the 81 year old
Maybe we don’t associate Biden with fascism frog
Pepe and his variations never represented any political ideology. The only thing that Pepe and Wojak represent is the internet
But it is. A symbol can mean different things in different context. For example, this hand gesture 👌 means okay in Western cultures but means something more insulting and offensive in Arab culture. Does that mean one is right and is the one and only representation of the gesture? Of course not. Same here. Swastikas have been around for thousands of years across many different cultures and has many different meanings. It’s just one variation of the symbol that ended up being used by the nazis and is offensive to most people. It’s silly and rather close minded to try to disregard all these disregard all these different context and meanings when many of them have been around for longer than the nazi variation. The principle applies here.
Please remember that this particular groyper meme is a literal copy of a Trump 2016 meme with the word “Trump” replaced with “Biden” and was deployed regularly by the alt-right. Please keep that in context while you give the argument that its in a totally different context. Its like responding to dog whistling accusations with more dog whistling.
Please remember that this particular groyper meme is a literal copy of a Trump 2016 meme with the word “Trump” replaced with “Biden” and was deployed regularly by the alt-right
So what? You have to stop doubling down on this idiotic argument because it is getting ridiculous. Guilt by association and purity are heavily frowned upon and criticized throughout history for a reason. Different things have different meanings in different contexts, and you can’t judge people without proper contexts and for things they’re not or didn’t do. This should be obvious, but for some reason it isn’t.
This meme and others like it all originate from 4chan and the other imageboards similar to it, and these boards are responsible for internet’s most famous memes. Just think about what has come out of 4chan for a second:
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Wojak and its variations
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Pepe and its variations
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LOLcats
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Pedobear
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Anonymous
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Rickrolling
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The popularization of Chocolate Rain
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Greentext
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Rage comics
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The ungodly origin of “Bronies”
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The Shia Labeouf fiasco
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The 4chan-Tumblr wars
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Pool’s closed
They are quite literally the foundation of internet culture. Everybody who grew up on the internet was used or at least enjoyed any of these. These imageboards are built on the idea that the internet is the wild west, where everybody no matter how tame or extreme, no matter how good or evil, and no matter how pragmatic or delusional can get together and shitpost. And guess what? 4chan and these other imageboards were ALWAYS cesspools filled pedos, Marxists, neo nazis, anarchists, racial supremacists, misogynists/misandrists, and so on, but at the same time, they’re also filled with a lot of normal people. Regardless, if we follow your logic, which is that anybody who has ever used any of these memes is a neo nazi by proxy then anybody who took part in mainstream Internet culture over the past 20 years is a neo nazi… which is obviously ridiculous.
Keep in mind, you’re right the groyper meme did originate from neo nazis but so did many other famous memes. I mean the latest famous variation of wojak, the chud, originated from some Marxist imageboard. Marxists are just as vile as neo nazis, does that mean anybody who used the chudjak meme is a Marxist? No, that’s stupid. The meme was started by Marxists, but it was used by a lot of other people, including those making fun of Marxists.
The point that I’m trying to make here is that memes serve as templates. Templates without content don’t mean anything, they’re just a structured blank document. Just like how symbols have different meanings in different contexts, so do these memes. If OP posted this same meme saying something like “Putin is still a great leader” then OP would be a fascist… but he’s not. His meme is about Biden.
Like seriously, do you honestly believe that OP is some secret neo nazi because he used a cartoon frog meme to make a pro Biden post? Even worse, do you seriously think that I’m also a secret neo nazi by proxy for pointing out that symbols and templates mean different things in different contexts? This is where you start crossing the line from a valid critic into a paranoid schizo or McCarthyist virute signaler.
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Some of us are old and still think of him as stoner frog. I’m not in the spaces where he’s used as a fascist icon and forgot they hijacked him.
Man having to remember every permutation internet bullshit gets exhausting.
Its literally a copy of a 2016 trump meme except they replaced Trump with Biden. This meme was deployed whenever Trump would “shit the bed” by 2015 standards.
If we let the fascists claim any symbol they want, we will have nothing left.
Pepe was just a depressed frog boi. Pepe is only fascist if we let the fascists win
I used to joke back in 2014 that if Milo Yian-whatever, Ben Shapiro and Gavin McInnes just had a biweekly meeting and decided on a hand sign, an image and a word to use heavily in social media for the following month that everything could be made into a dogwhistle within a year.
Go ahead and get a few swastika tattoos then
He’s already associated with support for genocide.
Pepe is dead. Stop.
Nearly dead memes for nearly death people!
I do support the message though!
The creator of pepe declared him dead
That is beyond meaningless. Pepe has no owner. It is a symbol of the internet culture and it’s not going away any time soon.
Agreed but I do like the lore of pepe technically truly being dead because of his fascist undertone nowadays. Kinda funny.
This is only true if you think it’s true. Pepe serves as a template for internet culture and can have anything projected on to it. Pepe has been used to push evil views like Marxism and Fascism to pragmatic views like universal healthcare and freedom of the press to non political things like complaining about video games and the weather.
Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying… Yeah we’re gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.
I mean the alternative is literally fascism. Not the silly internet “fascism” that’s just about someone that disagrees with you that you perceive is right of you on some silly made up political spectrum. Actual full blown fascism.
So yeah you need to vote for Joe Biden.
I mean the alternative is literally fascism.
Fascism or Fascism Lite. Take your pick.
Is this loss?
No one minds you voting for Biden believe it or not. We do mind being demonized and straw-personed for not voting for him.
You vote for fascism if you dont vote for him so you deserve it.
Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.
You want to make a difference? Great! There’s a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying… any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.
If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.
If you want my respect
I don’t.
Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie’s does not grant you superiority.
Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn’t matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.
Biden will not win this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.
Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.
So your solution is to give up and throw your vote away? I’m glad you didn’t want my respect because you didn’t get it.
A literal corpse being paraded around for four years like Weekend at Bernie’s would still be a better choice than Trump. He attempted a coup to invalidate the will of the people and maintain power, sent a mob to attack the Capitol building, and has been charged with 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions just for stuff he did while in office and as a candidate (convicted of 34 and counting).
But democracy died when an old man showed signs of being old? Not all that other stuff? Yeah, I’m voting for Biden. Easiest decision of my life. You should too.
You can argue until you’re blue in the face over there. Biden lost the election with that debate. He didn’t do anything he needed to do this term to protect democracy as we know it and the Supreme Court sealed the R’s final solution today.
It’s over man…game over. Congratulations…your support of the status quo ended Democracy.
In short, yea, I’m perfectly fine not having your respect.
You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better
If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.
I think Biden does want our vote. And we’re telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That’s how we can use our vote to influence the government. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.
but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout
There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.
If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it
This is a logical fallacy. If lighting myself on fire as protest were purely symbolic, then why are all of my friends persuading me to not do it?
Sometimes people trying to convince/persuade you against something isn’t because you actually have a point – but because your ideas will lead to harm.
You’re gonna need a better example, because people lighting themselves on fire played a tremendous role in ending popular support for America’s occupation of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.
It’s the last thing I would describe as “symbolic”.
Did it? My understanding is that the draft and footage of their children dying in war is what reshaped the public opinion.
Genuinely asking though, it was before my time.
There were self-immolations in Vietnam that were protests against the US-backed puppet government in Vietnam.
It wasn’t the only thing that shaped public opinion about the war, but it did have a big impact.
You can read a bit about it here:
Thanks!
If you care so much for palestine you vote Biden. Its either Biden or Trump and Trump would flatten gaza to get even more settlements named after him.
and that stops when trump wins because you voted for some 3rd party nobody… right?
Is that supposed to persuade me to vote for Biden? “But Trump will do genocide too.”
Yeah, and that’s why I’m not supporting Trump either.
I am a single issue voter, and that issue is genocide. And frankly, I’m disappointed that more people aren’t single issue voters when it comes to genocide.
If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter. Biden supports Israel despite their actions in Gaza… which he has publicly stated he doesn’t agree with and has taken concrete, if underwhelming, steps to try and stop. Trump has shown us during his previous administration and told us recently that he will support Israel harder and will likely take steps to decrease the resistance to the Palestinian genocide if not outright accelerate it. He’ll also accelerate Russian aggression in Ukraine and likely would ignore our Article 5 responsibilities when Putin advances farther into Europe. I’ll assume you’re familiar with the policy differences on climate and how climate change impacts poor regions (like Gaza) more than it impacts affluent ones like the US (and even we’re getting our asses kicked by climate change this year). You can vote to take a moral stand, or you can vote for desired outcomes. The people trying to convince you not to vote 3rd party are trying to convince you to vote for a desired outcome. There is presently no likely outcome that gives us a non-Biden, non-Trump administration for the next 4 years. Based on that fact, we want to maximize the likelihood of the best availa le outcome. That’s what we’re asking…to think about what the world looks like for the people you care about under Biden and compare those outcomes to what it will look like under Trump and vote based on those outcomes. The time to find the ideal candidate is at the beginning of a presidential term, not the end of one.
You can bet your ass most of us are including the ongoing genocide in our voting decision, we’ve just thought about it enough to know our options aren’t between “stopping genocide” and “continuing genocide”, the choice is between “resisting” (aka, the status quo) or “accelerating”.
If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter.
But voting is valuable even if your candidate doesn’t win. It’s about having your desires counted on the public record.
If politicians see that they’re losing votes to anti-genocide third-party candidates, they’ll take notice.
It’s about having your desires counted on the public record.
Get your desires on the public record in local and state elections and primaries where it might actually matter. For a US presidential election it’s an entirely empty gesture that makes you and only you feel better. No policies will change. No causes will be advanced. History will not remember you. It is very likely, however, that will make the lives of vulnerable people inside and outside of this country worse by giving trump a second term.
You are supporting Trump by wasting your vote.
Yeah, and that’s why I’m not supporting Trump either.
but you are, because you’re not voting biden in a two horse race.
They call it first past the post for a reason. you’re voting for some cunt still in the stable
I am a single issue voter, and that issue is genocide.
Genocides happening either way. you sitting home and sulking about it wont make it better.
Life is too complex to be a single issue. There is more than a single issue facing the world
Genocides happening either way. you sitting home and sulking about it wont make it better.
Be this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/11rrvt/be_this_guy/
Good for that guy. His beliefs were just and moral. He didn’t have any options though. Hitler and the Nazis were already in power.
You have an option. You’re acting like you’re brave just like this guy but I bet he wished more people voted for the candidate that wasn’t Hitler.
Here’s a puzzle for you. A group of three men go to a hotel, and they each pay $10 for a room, for a total of $30. Afterwards, the manager remembers that there’s a deal where you can get 3 rooms for $25, so he gives $5 to the bellboy and tells the bellboy to return it to the men. But the bellboy returns just $1 to each of the men, and pockets the remaining $2.
So the men each paid $9, for a total of $27. The bellboy pocketed $2. Where did the other dollar go?
It’s an informal fallacy.
And the answer is that “Where did the other dollar go?” is a nonsensical question when you understand the situation correctly. But a lot of people who first hear it don’t understand the situation correctly.
Likewise, “You’re helping Trump by voting third-party” is a nonsensical when you understand the situation correctly, but many people don’t at first understand the situation correctly.
Well said, „Radio Free Arabia“ 😂
Sure, if you are comfortable with the moral liability of fascism them we probably don’t get along.
I’m fine with the moral liability of supporting genocide. That’s why I’m voting for Biden.
So, speaking from a purely pragmatic perspective, voting for Biden is better than other US electoral choices for the purpose of trying to help Palestinians.
I understand your reticence and moral indignation, I largely feel the same.
But the biggest reason Trump won in 2016 is because voters were not particularly enthused with their choices, and a great many decided not voting at all (or voting for Trump as a protest against the establishment) was preferable to voting for HRC.
I have to imagine that we both believe that Trump is worse than Biden when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Given that we’re already in election year, it’s down to Biden and Trump. One of them is going to be president come January next year.
Taking all that together, if we want things to get better for Palestine, we should vote for Biden because the alternatives are much worse.
Granted there is a lot you can do outside of elections to help, and I wouldn’t recommend ignoring those. But given that voting for the US president takes a few hours out of one day every four years, it’s not a good idea to ignore that either.
I hope this helps you understand those of us who don’t really like Biden but will vote for him regardless.
