- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or # to comment.
Oh lawdy! Now all those sincere genuine people screeching genocide joe are gonna accuse him of being Hamas.
I respect that there honestly are no really good decisions to be made. From the fucked up situation decades of western interference and complicity have created. So worried about losing that foothold in the region and not being able to fulfill obligations to other allies. That they handle a butcher with kid gloves and undeserved diplomacy. It’s nice to see the administration make a decent start of a move finally. After so many self inflicted injuries.
Though we really need to cut Bibi loose. I bet we could find other footholds in the region if we stop actively antagonizing it.
Oh lawdy! Now all those sincere genuine people screeching genocide joe are gonna accuse him of being Hamas.
The supporters of genocide cannot imagine that anyone actually opposes genocide, so instead they assume that all opposition is astroturfing.
I think they’re talking about people on the right. They’re never sincere.
I’m talking about all the people that disingenuously demean what it means to actually support genocide. Left and right. Including the person you responded to. Don’t get me wrong. Biden committed an extremely bone-headed unforced error. That anyone could have told him would blow up in his face. There is nothing he could do to get Bibi to listen.
No one that accuses Biden or any of the other progressives of supporting genocide is being genuine or sincere. They are being drama queens and simply alienating their allies. There’s no end of things to criticize Biden for without making things up. And people win no points for it.
There is nothing he could do to get Bibi to listen.
You mean… apart from cutting Israel off from the massive arms supplies the US has been supplying Israel with since the 70s?
Which would not have actually stopped. What was going on. This is what I’m talking about overly simplistic unrealistic reasoning and expectations. I agree that he should not have sent them.
Part of the problem is, and I agree we should ditch it. That Israel is our most important military foothold in the region. It’s why he feels so obligated to give netanyahu unwarranted diplomacy. And also causing a lot of antagonism in the region.
Which would not have actually stopped. What was going on
Yes. It would have stopped it. Israel wouldn’t last a week without US support. It’s a client state - no different than Saudi Arabia.
That Israel is our most important military foothold in the region.
And since when do you require a “foothold in the region?” Do tell… how has a thousand dead Palestinians, Iraqis or Afghans made your life better this week?
since when do you require a “foothold in the region?”
Since oil and cars.
No one that accuses Biden or any of the other progressives of supporting genocide is being genuine or sincere.
Thank you for confirming that you can’t imagine anyone opposing genocide.
I’m opposed to genocide. I simply try not to act like a child when discussing these things. I don’t deny that Biden has done some stupid shit regarding this. And that he’s not helped the situation. But no one could genuinely say he supports genocide at the same time he’s actually trying to stop the genocide. Even with the patently stupid moves he’s made.
Thank you for proving my point that you have no genuine point. And are only here to cause drama.
deleted by creator
I’m opposed to genocide.
I’m not buying it, since you are more upset at people who don’t like genocide than you are at Biden for supporting it.
I don’t deny that Biden has done some stupid shit regarding this.
Stupid shit like circumventing congress to sell weapons to Netanyahu that he knew would be used for genocide? Stupid shit like going to bat for Netanyahu at the UN? That “stupid shit” looks exactly like what it is: support for genocide.
But no one could genuinely say he supports genocide at the same time he’s actually trying to stop the genocide.
And if he were actually trying to stop the genocide, that would mean something. He’s not. There are no conditions on aid to Netanyahu, and we’re still running interference for his genocidal regime at the UN.
Personally, I don’t care if you buy it. You’re not a serious or sincere person. Or anyone whose opinion anyone should care about.
Neither am I more upset at disingenuous people like yourself than I am what Biden did. I appreciate that you have to keep railing against straw men. I didn’t think you would stop at just Biden. It is somewhat lamentable though that we cannot have actual adult conversations about these sort of things because of behavior like yours. Quite honestly, I would like to see an end to the conflict and a depredication of Israel as a military base/foothold for the United States. The actual thing Biden supports by the way. It is not worth the loss of life and bad reputation it rightfully gives us in the region.
But hey you are free to continue to alienate people who more or less agree with you if you want. Just saying. I agree with you on probably a ton of things. But virtue signaling is more important to you than actual problem solving. I get that. Sometimes I’m even guilty of it.
I am a progressive. I am also vocal in my opposition to genocide.
For this, I have been called a Trumpist, Russian, Chinese, a tankie, a Republican, a shill, a bot, a moron, a child, and a fascist.
As far as I’m concerned, they’re talking about everyone who opposes genocide.
deleted by creator
He’s trying to do the bare minimum to bring people back to his side while still allowing the weapons to flow.
Not sure if sarcasm or not, but PotUS != King of America.
Going hard against Israel isn’t a real option for him politically.
Neither is not going hard enough.
You guys have to choose which camp you want and focus on that group and leave everybody else alone
Oh lawdy! Now all those sincere genuine people screeching genocide joe are gonna accuse him of being Hamas.
They were criticizing him for not sending in the Marines in trucks to blow through Israeli forces and start even more trouble. Lemmy is full of disingenuous idiots.
I respect that there honestly are no really good decisions to be made. From the fucked up situation decades of western interference and complicity have created. So worried about losing that foothold in the region and not being able to fulfill obligations to other allies. That they handle a butcher with kid gloves and undeserved diplomacy. It’s nice to see the administration make a decent start of a move finally. After so many self inflicted injuries.
Decades of US policy have driven us to this point. We’ve made enemies of Muslim nations because we had Christian whackos running everything. The only countries that like us are ones who want our money or our weapons. Sadly, nothing is going to change overnight.
Though we really need to cut Bibi loose. I bet we could find other footholds in the region if we stop actively antagonizing it.
Bibi is a warmonger and should stand trial. If Israel had rational leadership they could have kept the bloodthirsty part of their population in check.
“They were criticizing him for not sending in the Marines in trucks to blow through Israeli forces and start even more trouble. Lemmy is full of disingenuous idiots.”
Nobody said this. No effort strawmans aren’t how you prove genocide is ok :p
Nobody said this. No effort strawmans aren’t how you prove genocide is ok :p
In fairness, it’s impossible to prove that genocide is ok, because genocide is never ok. So all he has left are the no effort strawmen.
The article says nothing at all like that. The closest thing anyone in it says is that dropping supplies isn’t enough and we should do more to end Israel’s offensive. Why are you making shit up? What’s the point in pretending anyone has said what you’re claiming they’re saying? You haven’t seen anyone say it, yet you act like have. What’s the goal with this particular strawman?
How about instead of downvoting you actually show me a single instance of people saying the US needs to attack Israel? Surely you can find at least one case of this thing that people are supposedly saying? Maybe I just missed it in the article and you could quote it for me
I’m sure you read every single post on every community. It couldn’t possibly be that there are a bunch of dumbasses who don’t understand politics and suggest dumb stuff.
So link to it.
It’s not people here at all, which is why you had to deflect to an article.
An article that also doesn’t say a thing about sending in the Marines like you claimed.
Is this so the IDF knows where to set ambushes?
The air dropped aid will “scare” the IDF troops who will then open fire on the falling aid packages effectively destroying their contents before they land. Of course any stray shots that happen to kill some grannies or kids is just a big oopsies whoopsie do and completly understandable.
Of course any stray shots that happen to kill some grannies or kids is just a big oopsies whoopsie do and completly understandable.
Their bullets are magically enchanted to only work on Hamas, so they had it coming.
The air dropped aid will “scare” the IDF troops who will then open fire on the falling aid packages effectively destroying their contents before they land.
They could shoot down the planes with weapons we sold them and we would just reward them with more unconditional support.
That’s the bare minimum, we arm Isreal and veto resolutions against them at the UN giving them license for genocide, and then air drop a pittance of supplies since Biden won’t end the indescriminate targeting of civilians or force Israel to let aid in.
Remember, Biden could end this all with a phone call.
As the WHO points out, airdrops will provide far less aid then if Israel just opened up border crossings and let trucks in:
“It’s absolutely not needed in Gaza. The simplest, safest way and most effective way to deliver aid to people is through crossings. Not just Rafah. It should [also] be Kerem Shalom,” he said, referring to the crossing with Israel known in Arabic as Karem Abu Salem.
He added that the UN has been “more than ready” to supply Gaza with the aid it desperately needs but “a lot of our missions got delayed [and] denied [by Israel]”.
Air drops will undoubtedly provide some benefit, but they will be no means substantially ease the suffering in Gaza. This is an optics play, plain and simple, Biden provides the military means and international cover for Israel to create the famine in the first place, then makes a big show of getting some aid (five months into the genoicde) in to Gaza (using the least efficient means) to try to appease his critics.
Hooray I guess. I hereby nominate Biden for the Nobel peace prize.
Isn’t this you, just yesterday, complaining that Biden was enabling the Israeli/Netanyahu government to stop aid from coming into Gaza “at all”:
Just so everyone is clear, the Israeli governments reaction to this massacre is that they now need tostop aid from coming into Gaza at all because this incident proves starving people receiving aide is a danger to the Israeli military.
These are the people Biden is sending millions of dollars in weapons to. These are the people Biden directs the US ambassador to veto a widely supported cease fire resolution to give international cover to. Fuck, these are the people Biden chooses to lock arms with even as he loses 100k votes in Michigan in protest.
Today Biden has directed the US military to personally deliver aid to Gaza, in the most effective way that they can. (The US certainly isn’t going to put boots on the ground to deliver aid in extremely hostile and dangerous territory where hostages are being kept potentially anywhere.) They are getting aid to the people of Gaza, while the UN is failing to.
It’s possible that the UN could deliver aid more effectively by driving it into Gaza, but (a) it’s very likely that they can’t, because we’ve seen aid trucks hijacked by Hamas and aid stolen from innocent civilians and (b) the connections between UNRWA and Hamas have almost completely ruined the trust relationship with Israel. The UN has become severely compromised by their lack of ability to vet the people that work for them, because as the old saying goes “a bad apple can spoil the bunch”, and innocent people are suffering because of it. That one isn’t on Biden.
To say that Biden could “end this all with a phone call” is pure fiction, whether it’s in an op-ed or not–the only two parties who can agree to a ceasefire are Netanyahu’s government and Hamas. No US president, real or imaginary, is going to disarm Israel when they are our biggest ally in the region and under constant threat from Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and others. No US president, real or imaginary, will call for Israel to unilaterally ceasefire against Hamas as Hamas continues to hold their people hostage and wage their own counterattacks. If a ceasefire should happen, and it should, it’ll only happen because both sides of this conflict agree to the terms.
Anyway, I really hope you don’t realize that you’re moving the goal posts here, because I want to give you the benefit of the doubt… Anything else makes the complaints seem political and not genuinely pragmatic or even idealistic. Set the goalposts somewhere reasonable, and just keep them there.
Nobody is saying that Biden deserves a fuckin’ peace prize for this, but he’s doing a good thing here (something that just yesterday you seemingly wanted to see too) and he should be given at least due credit for that.
Good?
Should have been done months ago… but, good?
It’s good, but we’re not good for doing it. We’re acting like tyrants - supplying the guns that kill their friends and loved ones with one hand, and supplying the food that keeps them alive with the other. We’re playing with their lives, saving or condemning them on a whim. I always felt I’d have done something if I’d been a German during WWII, but here I am doing nothing but posting on social media as if that’s any better than “Thoughts and Prayers.”
A good first step. Bring the fist down on Netanyahu and the IDF next, and push for a permanent cease fire.
Israel will send in snipers.
Apple AirDrops tangible goods?
What’s the point of that while at the same time your keep airdropping aid and weapons to the Zionists? What would people do? Defend themselfs with toilet paper while being killed?
Sherlock!!,I believe it’s just genocide Joe propaganda.
Biden still trying to stick band-aids on this Genocide thinking he can win the election while keeping it going. Pathetic.
Removed by mod
Biden says a lot of shit.
And some of it’s good, like this
Lots of what he says would be good…
It’s easy to say stuff people think is good.
But actions matter more than words. And Biden doesn’t have a great track record for actions
This is a comment thread about a policy action. What are you on about?
That we shouldn’t give credit for things till they happen
Especially when what it is, isn’t enough
And when the aide comes, what will you elect Trump over next?
If somebody told you they didn’t like Ford trucks, would you start insulting Chevy because your mind honestly thinks it’s a binary thing and everyone loves one and hates the other?
That would be stupid as fuck, but seems to happen a lot here on Lemmy.
Binary thing? What else would you call a two party system?? Wow
Okay… Now what?
