The Autobahn has become very tiring to drive on. Most people somehow decided that its easiest to drive in the middle lane at slow(ish) speeds, while the right lane stays empty for long stretches. Since you are not allowed to overtake on the right lane, both the left lane and the middle lane are clogged most of the time, averaging about 100-120 Km/h. If the public transportation was a bit more reliable and cheaper I would sell my car.
The problem is that even in low traffic, there is a truck on the right lane every few meters. Often, after you switch to the right lane, someone decides to drive right next to you, forcing you to brake.
It’s just more comfortable to stay in the middle lane.
Now IMHO the real problem is when trucks are overtaking with 101km/h…
It’s just more comfortable to stay in the middle lane.
It’s stil a dick move if the rightmost lane is free. Then you’re effectively overtaking a phantom car at the exact same velocity (as nobody is allowed to pass right).
I agree but need to have “free” defined. If there’s another truck 100/200m ahead then it’s a pain in the ass because like the other said, others behind you won’t do the same and will do a slight acceleration when you go in the right lane (because free space in front = accelerate hurr durr), preventing you from changing lanes again when you get to the next truck and so you have to brake and hope you get a gap again soon to overtake the truck.
If it’s literally empty as far as the eye can see then yeah, move over!
It’s like when a lane closes and people that merge in near the end get blocked for “trying to get ahead”. But the road is closed there, not a kilometre before. They closed it there to maximise multiple lanes as long as possible to limit the bottleneck caused by the lane closure—use it so everyone can get through quicker. It must be painful to see for the people that set it up. Whatever the situation, traffic go faster when maximising available space and lanes.
What makes your right to go fast on the left lane more important than their right to go a reasonable ~120km/h in the middle lane?
Nothing, but that wasn’t the created scenario. If the right lane isn’t free, do stick in the middle lane of course (squishing two vehicles together isn’t gonna make them go faster, usually). The scenario created was talking of an empty right lane, which should only exist on the left side, as we should drive on the right side of the road.
10 seconds. If you’re not overtaking anything within 10 seconds, you should pull into the inside lane.
This is what I was taught in advanced driver training. However, in practice I use 7 seconds, because I find 10 seconds a little too far to easily estimate by eye. I end up thinking “is that 10 seconds? I’m not sure, maybe” then by the time I figure out it was more than 10 seconds it is now less than 7.
As trucks are governed to a Vmax of 90 kph, and some even to 85 kph, I would suggest you get your speedometer checked, because it sounds like the advancement, required by law, is too high. It shouldn’t show more than 7% more than your actual speed. Truck speedos are more rigorously controlled and show an average of 2 kph too much at 80 kph, so trucks overtaking at 101 kph is not normally possible - of course, speedo manipulation does occur, but it isn’t so rampant that they all overtake at 101 kph.
The point is they are overtaking just slightly faster.
Trucks also spent long stretches in the same order, sometimes they change things up.
The speeds of trucks are measured on-board by a tachograph, so any big deviation can give them a fine, even if they weren’t caught on the spot.
And that 20 second delay really isn’t gonna impact the trip as a whole. Just rolling with it will make your trip less stressful, and therefore more enjoyable. If you’re late, rushing through traffic isn’t gonna make a significant impact, except on your risk of accidents.
Truck driver have timelines.
It is totally okay, if they need to occupy the middle lane. Sometimes even the left lane.
It is more rare then middle lane sitters.
But what is not okay is that the cultural habit of “don’t clog” has forgotten. People are ignorant shits these days when entering cars.
If you decide to travel via 100 kph and do not want to flow with the traffic, then just stick to the right lane and flow with the trucks?!
This way you have the most fuel savings as well.
It is totally okay, if they need to occupy the middle lane.
Truck drivers are running a commercial operation, I shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced so they can more easily make money - especially not when that inconvenience is caused by them not following the rules of the road.
Sometimes even the left lane.
This may be illegal, depending on jurisdiction and circumstances.
Truck drivers are running a commercial operation, I shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced so they can more easily make money - especially not when that inconvenience is caused by them not following the rules of the road.
It is about the person sitting inside the ferry. Once you work together with drivers you will change your attitude torwards them immediately. They working conditions are very difficult. Especially when they are crossing jurisdications/states.
When I am driving I have no problems eith truck drivers. They even help going onto the highway or mention radars.
The people sitting in the middle are the problem. Most of them doesn’t even accelerate passing another middle-lane-sitter.
Im driving for two decades. I did multiple years of disposition. I’m telling you: Middle sitters are the problem and responsible for most crashes on the autobahn.
It is about the person sitting inside the ferry. Once you work together with drivers you will change your attitude torwards them immediately. They working conditions are very difficult. Especially when they are crossing jurisdications/states.
This is the classic “feel sorry for the waiter working on sub-minimum wage, he’s supposed to be subsidised by tips!” bullshit argument. Yes, truck drivers are a victim of the businesses they work for and aren’t paid well enough. That doesn’t mean that they, as representatives of the business they work for, should get away with doing things that are wrong and inconvenience everyone else. Particularly when it is the business that sets the conditions that push drivers to behave as they do.
The truck driver might not be making much of a profit, for the long hours they work. But the truck is there to make a profit. The majority of everyone else on the road is not driving for work. People driving for work should not inhibit everyone else, who are inherently paying a loss to drive somewhere.
In fact, drivers in general shouldn’t inhibit others. Driving in the outside lane when you’re not overtaking is a shitty move, regardless.
Pay attention, plan well ahead to pull out when you need, accelerate as needed so you don’t hold up anyone when you pull out.
If you’re not willing or able to accelerate, then you shouldn’t pull out. By all means indicate your intention (and do so well in advance), but don’t move over until the lane is clear.
When I am driving I have no problems eith truck drivers. They even help going onto the highway or mention radars.
The people sitting in the middle are the problem.
Yeah, but we’re talking about truck drivers who sit in the middle lane.
It sounds like you’re from somewhere where this isn’t much of a problem. The professional drivers are professional. That’s awesome, but know that it doesn’t hold true everywhere, either across the US or in Europe or elsewhere. It’s not even a national thing, driving habits vary by region.
But yeah, people sitting in the middle is a problem. The bigger problem is that it’s so poorly defined - I was taught “if you’re not overtaking within 10 seconds, you should pull over”. 10 seconds is very conservative, I work to 7 seconds.
Most people somehow decided that its easiest to drive in the middle lane at slow(ish) speeds, while the right lane stays empty for long stretches.
Really? In my experience driving on German roads (primarily down near Munich), lane discipline is exceptionally good. The only times I saw significantly lower driving standards was in rush hour.
Meanwhile, the UK is notorious for people sitting in the middle lane. That used to be the rule, the inside lane was the slow lane, middle for cruising and outside for overtaking, however that was changed in the 60s/70s. It’s recently been made formally illegal, rather than just contrary to the highway code, but even trained police drivers are still guilty of doing it.
In the Netherlands they’re very big on pulling back in. So much so they frequently cut your nose off by pulling in so early.
It’s fun seeing how driving styles vary between different regions and countries.
Yeah, that might be the case. I recently drove to Berchtesgaden and it was better in the south. I live near the Danish border. Haha, people here are a bit laid back.
Driving on occassion on the A8 near Stuttgart and can’t confirm it.
Usually trucks are clogging the most right line and overtaking each on the 2nd lane.
Most PKWs drive on the 2nd/3rd lane while the racers and overtakers use the 3rd/4th lane.
Also who cares about overtaking from the right. If you drive 120kph and my lane all drive 130 kph I will naturally overtake you. No need to switch lanes if the lane is free. Just don’t overtake at +30 kph but more at 10 kph in relation to base Autobahn speed.
The law does account for this: If all lanes are well populated and you find your lane is actually moving faster than the lane to your left, you may pass - not overtake - on the right, as long as you are not more than 20 kph faster than the left lane.
The difference is in passing and overtaking: Passing is merely going faster than the other lane, but staying in your lane afterwards. Overtaking, or to give it its correct name of undertaking, is passing and then changing into the same lane as the passed vehicle.
Yeah trucks across Europe are generally pretty good, primarily because in many countries it’s illegal for them to be in the 3rd lane (except sometimes in heavy slow moving traffic).
Overtaking from the right, or undertaking, is often illegal also, though. So while I agree that it should be ok, strictly speaking it isn’t.
What is legal is to overtake on the outside, move into their lane, then the inside lane, then slow down so they overtake you. Rinse and repeat, count how many donuts you can draw around them before they move over.
I dont experience that in the part of Germany where I live but either way, have you seen how they drive in other countries? Thats wild compared to Germany…
The Autobahn has become very tiring to drive on. Most people somehow decided that its easiest to drive in the middle lane at slow(ish) speeds, while the right lane stays empty for long stretches. Since you are not allowed to overtake on the right lane, both the left lane and the middle lane are clogged most of the time, averaging about 100-120 Km/h. If the public transportation was a bit more reliable and cheaper I would sell my car.
The problem is that even in low traffic, there is a truck on the right lane every few meters. Often, after you switch to the right lane, someone decides to drive right next to you, forcing you to brake.
It’s just more comfortable to stay in the middle lane.
Now IMHO the real problem is when trucks are overtaking with 101km/h…
It’s stil a dick move if the rightmost lane is free. Then you’re effectively overtaking a phantom car at the exact same velocity (as nobody is allowed to pass right).
I agree but need to have “free” defined. If there’s another truck 100/200m ahead then it’s a pain in the ass because like the other said, others behind you won’t do the same and will do a slight acceleration when you go in the right lane (because free space in front = accelerate hurr durr), preventing you from changing lanes again when you get to the next truck and so you have to brake and hope you get a gap again soon to overtake the truck.
If it’s literally empty as far as the eye can see then yeah, move over!
It’s like when a lane closes and people that merge in near the end get blocked for “trying to get ahead”. But the road is closed there, not a kilometre before. They closed it there to maximise multiple lanes as long as possible to limit the bottleneck caused by the lane closure—use it so everyone can get through quicker. It must be painful to see for the people that set it up. Whatever the situation, traffic go faster when maximising available space and lanes.
The rightmost lane is never completely free. And if it is, almost all drivers do use it.
What makes your right to go fast on the left lane more important than their right to go a reasonable ~120km/h in the middle lane?
Nothing, but that wasn’t the created scenario. If the right lane isn’t free, do stick in the middle lane of course (squishing two vehicles together isn’t gonna make them go faster, usually). The scenario created was talking of an empty right lane, which should only exist on the left side, as we should drive on the right side of the road.
10 seconds. If you’re not overtaking anything within 10 seconds, you should pull into the inside lane.
This is what I was taught in advanced driver training. However, in practice I use 7 seconds, because I find 10 seconds a little too far to easily estimate by eye. I end up thinking “is that 10 seconds? I’m not sure, maybe” then by the time I figure out it was more than 10 seconds it is now less than 7.
As trucks are governed to a Vmax of 90 kph, and some even to 85 kph, I would suggest you get your speedometer checked, because it sounds like the advancement, required by law, is too high. It shouldn’t show more than 7% more than your actual speed. Truck speedos are more rigorously controlled and show an average of 2 kph too much at 80 kph, so trucks overtaking at 101 kph is not normally possible - of course, speedo manipulation does occur, but it isn’t so rampant that they all overtake at 101 kph.
Okay, I never looked at a truck’s speedometer. The point is they are overtaking just slightly faster.
It certainly feels like most trucks are going at least 90 km/h regularly.
Trucks also spent long stretches in the same order, sometimes they change things up.
The speeds of trucks are measured on-board by a tachograph, so any big deviation can give them a fine, even if they weren’t caught on the spot.
And that 20 second delay really isn’t gonna impact the trip as a whole. Just rolling with it will make your trip less stressful, and therefore more enjoyable. If you’re late, rushing through traffic isn’t gonna make a significant impact, except on your risk of accidents.
That is true. Therefore there shouldn’t be a problem with drivers driving a steady speed in the middle lane.
Truck driver have timelines. It is totally okay, if they need to occupy the middle lane. Sometimes even the left lane. It is more rare then middle lane sitters.
But what is not okay is that the cultural habit of “don’t clog” has forgotten. People are ignorant shits these days when entering cars.
If you decide to travel via 100 kph and do not want to flow with the traffic, then just stick to the right lane and flow with the trucks?! This way you have the most fuel savings as well.
Truck drivers are running a commercial operation, I shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced so they can more easily make money - especially not when that inconvenience is caused by them not following the rules of the road.
This may be illegal, depending on jurisdiction and circumstances.
It is about the person sitting inside the ferry. Once you work together with drivers you will change your attitude torwards them immediately. They working conditions are very difficult. Especially when they are crossing jurisdications/states.
When I am driving I have no problems eith truck drivers. They even help going onto the highway or mention radars.
The people sitting in the middle are the problem. Most of them doesn’t even accelerate passing another middle-lane-sitter.
Im driving for two decades. I did multiple years of disposition. I’m telling you: Middle sitters are the problem and responsible for most crashes on the autobahn.
This is the classic “feel sorry for the waiter working on sub-minimum wage, he’s supposed to be subsidised by tips!” bullshit argument. Yes, truck drivers are a victim of the businesses they work for and aren’t paid well enough. That doesn’t mean that they, as representatives of the business they work for, should get away with doing things that are wrong and inconvenience everyone else. Particularly when it is the business that sets the conditions that push drivers to behave as they do.
The truck driver might not be making much of a profit, for the long hours they work. But the truck is there to make a profit. The majority of everyone else on the road is not driving for work. People driving for work should not inhibit everyone else, who are inherently paying a loss to drive somewhere.
In fact, drivers in general shouldn’t inhibit others. Driving in the outside lane when you’re not overtaking is a shitty move, regardless.
Pay attention, plan well ahead to pull out when you need, accelerate as needed so you don’t hold up anyone when you pull out.
If you’re not willing or able to accelerate, then you shouldn’t pull out. By all means indicate your intention (and do so well in advance), but don’t move over until the lane is clear.
Yeah, but we’re talking about truck drivers who sit in the middle lane.
It sounds like you’re from somewhere where this isn’t much of a problem. The professional drivers are professional. That’s awesome, but know that it doesn’t hold true everywhere, either across the US or in Europe or elsewhere. It’s not even a national thing, driving habits vary by region.
But yeah, people sitting in the middle is a problem. The bigger problem is that it’s so poorly defined - I was taught “if you’re not overtaking within 10 seconds, you should pull over”. 10 seconds is very conservative, I work to 7 seconds.
Really? In my experience driving on German roads (primarily down near Munich), lane discipline is exceptionally good. The only times I saw significantly lower driving standards was in rush hour.
Meanwhile, the UK is notorious for people sitting in the middle lane. That used to be the rule, the inside lane was the slow lane, middle for cruising and outside for overtaking, however that was changed in the 60s/70s. It’s recently been made formally illegal, rather than just contrary to the highway code, but even trained police drivers are still guilty of doing it.
In the Netherlands they’re very big on pulling back in. So much so they frequently cut your nose off by pulling in so early.
It’s fun seeing how driving styles vary between different regions and countries.
Yeah, that might be the case. I recently drove to Berchtesgaden and it was better in the south. I live near the Danish border. Haha, people here are a bit laid back.
Driving on occassion on the A8 near Stuttgart and can’t confirm it.
Usually trucks are clogging the most right line and overtaking each on the 2nd lane.
Most PKWs drive on the 2nd/3rd lane while the racers and overtakers use the 3rd/4th lane.
Also who cares about overtaking from the right. If you drive 120kph and my lane all drive 130 kph I will naturally overtake you. No need to switch lanes if the lane is free. Just don’t overtake at +30 kph but more at 10 kph in relation to base Autobahn speed.
Pkw - Panzerkampfwagen?
PersonenKraftWagen
PersonalPowerVehicle
PersonalCar
Car
It’s a reference to this: https://reddit.com/r/de/s/rN0qIhSanO
I actually didn’t even know this existed prior to this comment, just saw the funny acronym (: thanks for that hilarious
Neat post
Thanks for the lore
I prefer tanki (;
Stupid Leopards keep clogging up the highways
The law does account for this: If all lanes are well populated and you find your lane is actually moving faster than the lane to your left, you may pass - not overtake - on the right, as long as you are not more than 20 kph faster than the left lane.
The difference is in passing and overtaking: Passing is merely going faster than the other lane, but staying in your lane afterwards. Overtaking, or to give it its correct name of undertaking, is passing and then changing into the same lane as the passed vehicle.
Yeah, that’s what I meant.
Thanks for clarifying!
Yeah trucks across Europe are generally pretty good, primarily because in many countries it’s illegal for them to be in the 3rd lane (except sometimes in heavy slow moving traffic).
Overtaking from the right, or undertaking, is often illegal also, though. So while I agree that it should be ok, strictly speaking it isn’t.
What is legal is to overtake on the outside, move into their lane, then the inside lane, then slow down so they overtake you. Rinse and repeat, count how many donuts you can draw around them before they move over.
I dont experience that in the part of Germany where I live but either way, have you seen how they drive in other countries? Thats wild compared to Germany…