ACAB, especially that bastard relative of yours.
The capitalist state and it’s forces in the form of Police and Military primarily exist to protect the private property of the rich. All other functions are secondary.
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Serious question, how do you suggest we enforce laws without police?
It’s perfectly possible to create a law enforcement arm of government that’s actually concerned with protecting vulnerable citizens, but that’s not what the institution of policing actually focuses on.
To suggest that we can’t have law enforcement without propping up a toxic system of professional predators is exactly the presumption they want you to make in order to preserve their jobs. We don’t need to capitulate to a lawless fraternity to enforce our laws, we can replace it with something that isn’t built on principles of oppression.
That said, their main job at the moment is to protect hoarders of wealth from the social consequences of wealth hoarding. Personally, I don’t see that as necessary.
The way I understand ACAB is not to remove all cops, but reform the system fundamentally. It’s a flawed system encouraging bad behavior and silence.
If the goal isn’t to remove “all cops”, isn’t it pretty counterproductive that the first two words in ACAB are “all cops”?
ACAB is a statement, not a plan of action
As in, “All Cops Are Bad,” not “All Cops Must Be Bad by Definition.”
You know, I hadn’t thought about it, but I guess being against police brutality must mean I think there shouldn’t be any law enforcement at all. Cause I certainly can’t imagine a world where there are police who uphold the law but don’t beat the shit out of people and kill them indiscriminately.
Your question is absurd. Pointing out that cops beat the shit out of people and kill them indiscriminately in no way presupposes that there should be no cops.
Well, if ACAB, then so are the ones that simply uphold the law without resorting to brutality. It’s not SCAB after all. So if that’s the idea, asking for a alternative solution to law enforcement does not seem that absurd to me.
ACAB is a critique of the policing system as a whole, not individuals.
Good individuals enforcing a bad system are still as bad as the systems they enforce.
Law enforcement should truly be built around the idea of protecting and serving the greater public, but at this time it’s really just legalized violence controlled by the rich, like a hit squad.
Nobody is advocating for zero police. It’d be better to move the police budget to more social programs to try and help people so they’re not pushed into a life of crime. An ounce of prevention is worth of a pound of the cure.
The cops are not inherently bad, it’s just the system currently encourages and supports bad ones while driving away good ones. Change the system, cops get less bad.
Defunding or otherwise reducing the number of police is just a temporary harm reduction measure, since in a lot of places things are actively worse WITH police (as they stand now) than they would be WITHOUT police. That’s not to say things would be great if we permanently abolish police. It’s just a choice between two evils and, crazy as it is, actual criminals are the lesser evil in many cases.
Ideally, we would have police, but an entirely different set of police with an entirely different structure supporting them.
For example, make “protect and serve” a job requirement instead of a slogan, end qualified immunity, get rid of grand juries for police, etc
It’s true. The good ones get purged and blacklisted, while the bad ones get hired at another station if they get fired for good cause. Just listen to the stories that the actual good cops tell when they’re forced out for actually being good.
The system can be fixed, but it would have to be remade from the ground up with a select group of trustworthy people who would have to be very scrupulous about background checks and creating a culture. We might be able to bring in outside consultants from places with better cops, like Europe or Canada.
Restorative Justice is the best if not only way to reliably reduce crime, including that of the chronically abusive cops themselves.
I would suggest a citizens militia made up of local residents, mostly tasked with keeping their community orderly. Not armed with guns but with Batons and Tasers for diffusing situations and self defence.
Serious deescalation and psychological training and only special units being allowed to bear arms which would only be used reactively.
ofc this would only work in a society which has alleviated social inequalities
In Germany we have something called “Ordnungsamt” (lit. meaning: Orderdepartment) imo smth like that should take over most tasks of current police and current police (in the way they are equipped) being reduced by a lot and used more rarely
So it’d still be their work? Wouldn’t you get the same form of power abuse even then?
A citizens militia could be a democratic instituion and be integrated in a form of council socialist democracy
And who would do it? Would the people be forced to do it or would those that want to become part of the militia be able to apply?
For starters you don’t actually need to enforce law a lot of the time, it’s sufficient to simply verbally reprimand or do a number of other non-law-enforcement things to correct bad behaviour.
This is why german/nordic police are famous for how not terrible they are, they’re more likely to help you out rather than punish you.
German Police will still harass you (even physically) if a swearword aimed at them slips your mouth. And if you don’t look German or are a POC, mentally ill or are otherwise causing problems they are too incompetent to deal with, you are muuuuch more likely to get murdered by them.
I think what you maybe are referring to is the “Ordnungsamt” which is kind of like a community task force
German police will still put a boot on your neck if you dare engage in non-violent civil disobedience to protest the objective destruction of our environment for example
No, I really think you’ve seen too much unrealistic information. Or project American news onto Germany.
Nobody in Germany is likely to get murdered by police. Check the statistics. The numbers are small enough (around 10/year) that you can look up every case in a year. I won’t deny that the police got some big problems. But coming up with completely wrong arguments isn’t helping anything.
I’ve been living in Germany my whole life fyi
And I will stay with my argument that you are more likely to get murdered by the Police if you belong to one of the groups I mentioned, the statement was relative to the usual chances of murder by cop.
I’ve been living in Germany my whole life fyi
Then you should get it right.
the statement was relative to the usual chances of murder by cop.
Great, so the chances increased from 0% to double that.
That said, [the police’s] main job at the moment is to protect hoarders of wealth from the social consequences of wealth hoarding.
We are all wealth hoarders. What are the social consequences of wealth hoarding? Is it okay to steal? How much does a person have to have before it’s okay to steal? Most of the people of the world live on a couple of US dollars a day. Is it okay for them to steal your wallet when you have 40 dollars?
Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity (“I’m just trying to have a debate”), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of “incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate”, and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings. The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcomic Wondermark by David Malki, which The Independent called “the most apt description of Twitter you’ll ever see”.
Wow you just described all the conservatives I’ve ever talked with.
As an aside, i still remember someone on reddit going off their shits accusing me of sealioning when they kept spewing out highly specific buzzwords and i kept very genuinely asking them what the everloving fuck they were on about.
Not to mention that accusatory shit gets…problematic with people who are ASD.
Either respond to the question or ‘nah bro’. Not every thing needs to be high dramatics.
point: completely missed. Impressively so
If you have $40 to your name, the cops are just much more likely to beat you and take it, than they are to protect you from someone else taking it.
Cops don’t actually spend much time on solving crimes, they mostly spend their time ticketing and harassing the poor in favor of the rich.
Go away, capitalist bootlicker.
Ah, yes, the police of the communist Soviet Union were certainly a model of how law enforcement should be done.
Politically illiterate and strawmanning, gj!
Lenin loses me with his Dictatorship of the Proletariat. Personally, I think that demonstrating such lack of faith in humanity and in the power of workers to take things into their own hands is fundamentally at odds with the sort of organically arising communist-style models Marx and Engels are talking about.
Lenin wanted power. This was the way he could get it.
Sounds about right.
