Not sure what you’re talking about because the Duma consists of United Russia, the communists, and a few other parties that are tiny and irrelevant.
Can you explain how it will benefit the world’s workers if NATO wins this war? Because I can easily explain how the world’s workers will benefit from a NATO defeat.
sO yOu’D sAy tHAt yOu uNcRitIcAlY sUPPOrt a cApITaLIst sTaTe
Seriously? That’s the best you got dipshit, you can only speak in accusations and thought-terminating cliches? Get a grip motherfucker, liberals like you are reason neo-nazism has been so normalized
Is that supposed to be a own? Yes I prefer Russian capitalists defeating Ukrainian nazis, so Russian communists don’t have to face both western backed Russian and Ukrainian nazis
I don’t understand your position. So, in the event of an imminent second Russian revolution, your supposition is that Ukrainians would be a significant counterrevolutionary force and that the US wouldn’t intervene militarily, and so if there are fewer Ukrainians, there’s more likely to be a successful second communist revolution in Russia in the near future?
And you think this is a reasonable take to have. And that it’s the land border with NATO that would be the big issue in a military conflict with the US?
This is such a bonkers take to have in light of the absurd probabilities involved. You’re like a chud who buys a gun because you think you’re going to take on the Marines.
I don’t understand your position. So, in the event of an imminent second Russian revolution, your supposition is that Ukrainians would be a significant counterrevolutionary force and that the US wouldn’t intervene militarily, and so if there are fewer Ukrainians, there’s more likely to be a successful second communist revolution in Russia in the near future?
What? They said that the Ukrainians need to be dead so that the next revolution would succeed in Russia. At least that’s how I read it. How did you interpret it?
Even if you assume this is just an interimperialist war, its basic Leninism for western communists to support and propagandize for the defeat of your own imperialist bloc in that war.
Vietnam turned a majority of Americans against the military for a number of years and gave black radicals enough room to create the Black Panther Party and end legally sanctioned segregation.
Was that worth the lives of all the Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians who were killed, or the generations afterwards who died from unexploded ordinance or birth defects? I don’t think that’s such a clear cut “yes”.
Point being that non-interventionism would have been preferable, which is the position I’ve been taking all along.
Revolutionary defeatism includes undermining your own nation’s war effort, I don’t understand the difference in your position. If you can’t prevent the war, you undermine the capacity to continue it.
Since the left isn’t in any position to stop the war the better outcome would still be that the smaller bloc of capital survives as a counterweight to hegemonic capital. Better if the Russian federation remains friendly to China, and remains available to anti-colonial movements as a counterbalance to colonial forces in Africa and the Middle East (regardless of how effective they are, it seems these anti-colonial governments still want them). It’s better when capital is divided and limited than unified and able to exercise unlimited exploitation.
It seems like the Ukrainians wanted a peace deal almost immediately after the threat to Kiev, it wasn’t Russia or the Ukrainian government that blew up those peace talks.
Realistically, there’s no way this war doesn’t end with Russia gaining Donetsk and Luhansk and not much else (because they don’t really want anything beyond that, short of regime change in Kiev, which is definitely not happening). Both Russia and the US seemingly have the resources to indefinitely drag out this war just sitting on the same battle lines. Continuing the stalemate only results in more needless death.
Also realistically, my capacity to “undermine” anything is 0, so let’s have this conversation with that in mind. Continuing: as already established, I don’t support the US’s efforts to continue this war. Similarly, I don’t support Russia’s efforts to do the same. I don’t think they realistically have the ethnic Russian support base to hold western Ukraine without serious loss of life for everyone involved. Because I feel the evolving multipolarity would have been occurring anyway, I don’t think the geopolitical implications of a western “defeat” here are worth the continuing loss of life.
And how will this war be any different in that respect? Russia’s not aiming to annex all of Ukraine. The remaining rump state will be even more vassalized than before, win or lose.
Vassalized yet the billions of investments poured in left in smoke, and hopefully a landlocked rump state with half the territory will forever be unable to create a large economic powerhouse for NATO
The fact that you’re the only person who brought the term “uncritically” into it goes to show how much work you have to do to make up a position to be smug towards.
Aren’t Russia attempting to dissolve Wagner and killed all the main leaders (including neo Nazi Dimitry Utkin) in the Wagner plane crash on August 23rd this year, after the attempted Wagner coup? Tell me when Ukraine will do anything similar to Azov. And no, their half arsed integration of them into the Ukrainian armed forces does not count. Last time Zelenskyy tried to get the fash to stand down, before the war started in earnest, he got embarrassed on camera. Russia has a problem with Nazis and fascists, but it’s not nearly as big as Ukraine’s Nazi problem. There is no way someone like Bandera would be viewed as a national hero in Russia.
Richard Wagner died before the Nazi party existed, he wasn’t a nazi. I have no idea why Wagner group was named that - tbh a ton about Wagner is very mysterious. But no, I’ve never seen any evidence that Wagner group were Nazis.
I despise a whole lot about the post-Soviet government of Russia. But yeah, I completely support Russia in their noble war of self-defense against the fascist “west.” And that’s is, afaik, basically the majority opinion on this website. What the fuck are you doing here lib?
I haven’t looked up Wagner in a while. I don’t think I ever ran in to why it’s called that.
afaik, basically the majority opinion on this website.
Afaik most people treat this as an “Enemy of my Enemy” thing. NATO is much, much worse than Russia. This war can weaken NATO. NATO winning is very, very bad because it reinforces NATO/US hegemony and would give NATO access to vast new natural resources as they carve up Russia, to say nothing of the massively increased risk of nuclear war as Russia disintegrates. A victory for Russia, especially a decisive victory, could greatly weaken NATOs position in the world. That would open up the possibility of multipolarity, which could create space for left movements to grow without being hunted down and destroyed by the US/NATO. It would give China more room to maneuver, as well as less powerful communist states. It might increase the chance of the US balkanizing, which would be horrific for those of us who live here but has a chance of benefiting the world.
Afaik very few people support Russia, but we recognize that a Russian victory is the most desirable outcome of this farce. Preferably sooner than later given the horrific amount of death and destruction.
Things are already badly fucked - Ukraine is firmly in the grip of fascism and the war has greatly advanced the cause of international fascism. It’s strengthened the fascist position across Eastern Europe. The EU and US are both supporting the Double Holocaust narrative openly now. It is likely that weapons from Ukraine will flood Europe over the coming years facilitating terror and violence.
In terms of geopolitics, Russia is the least-bad guys. Nothing more, nothing less.
Things are already badly fucked - Ukraine is firmly in the grip of fascism and the war has greatly advanced the cause of international fascism. It’s strengthened the fascist position across Eastern Europe. The EU and US are both supporting the Double Holocaust narrative openly now. It is likely that weapons from Ukraine will flood Europe over the coming years facilitating terror and violence.
I don’t think you can blame this on the war. This is just something becoming more of itself under pressure/heat. If you put sea water on boil it’s going to become saltier. You can’t blame Russia for the already existing contradictions and fascism of the west coming to a head
I don’t blame Russia. NATO has been working towards this war since it was founded. The war was used to purge dissident elements in Ukraine and has been used as a cause celebre for fascism. That’s all to the advantage of NATO, and NATO instigated the war by constantly pushing strategic encirclement of Russia.
I’m pretty sure the dominant position is critical support. It’s just that criticism of Russia is not that frequent because discussion of the war with libs is almost always in a context that assumes NATO framing. At least in the news mega people are dunking on the Russians regularly.
This. Libs don’t care that the Communist Party of Russia is a nationalist joke, or that smaller communist groups are largely suppressed, or that the left in Ukraine has been suppressed if not actually liquidated, or that Leftists across eastern Europe are being suppressed by new laws and increasingly brazen fascist regimes. All they care about is the bogus good guys bad guys narratives. They’re openly hostile to the concept of geopolitics or really any complexity at all.
I completely support Russia in their noble war of self-defense against the fascist “west.”
What is it about Russian capitalism that you like so much? Which of their anti-LGBTQ laws do you find more appealing than the west’s?
Not supporting Ukraine is one thing (which I think is the actual majority opinion on this website), but rooting for Russia is an entirely different thing.
My position is that I do not give a shit who wins because they’re both fascist.
What is it about Russian capitalism that you like so much? Which of their anti-LGBTQ laws do you find more appealing than the west’s?
Nothing, I already established that.
My position is that I do not give a shit who wins because they’re both fascist.
Liberal nonsense. They aren’t. Further, Russia isn’t the global hegemon, they aren’t the power holding up the capitalist-imperialist world system. The US is. In this war, the Ukrainians are US proxies. The victory of Russia over NATO is a good thing for all the oppressed and marginalized people of the Earth. NATO victory would be catastrophic. Honestly, I despise liberals like you so fucking much. Normally I expect shit takes like this from federated shitheads. What are you doing here?
How many laws criminalizing the self-expression of LGBT individuals does it take before a country becomes fascist? What about industrial capitalist collusion with the government? How much of that before you’re fascist?
In my eyes, the instant Yeltsin divvied up the state industries and created the oligarchs, he created an inextricable bond between private capital and the state.
Every state use violence to sustain itself, not sure why you think this is a particularly interesting own. Russia is a Liberal capitalist state under attack from the global hegemonic empire and its proxies. Just like Gadaffi’s Libya was, or Syria’s Assad, or Sadam’s Iraq. In all these cases, we oppose the American empire in it’s imperialism. You cannot extend the same courtesy to Russia because your brain has been poisoned by 7 years of russiagate hysteria from liberals and 100 years of anti-communist red scare propaganda in your culture
Russia should achieve victory in this war against imperialists. We can criticize Russia’s domestic and internal policies, but geopolitically they are in the right. Seems you have a hard time getting onboard with even critical support against your empire
There’s literally Nazis on both sides.
And honestly who even cares? Russia has Nazis? Great, shoot them, too.
Russia does have Nazis, but they’re all fighting for Ukraine.
deleted by creator
Not sure what you’re talking about because the Duma consists of United Russia, the communists, and a few other parties that are tiny and irrelevant.
Can you explain how it will benefit the world’s workers if NATO wins this war? Because I can easily explain how the world’s workers will benefit from a NATO defeat.
deleted by creator
That’s why it’s called critical support 😉
deleted by creator
Tfw even the Zionist Entity is on the good side but the
still votes for evil.
One side has criminalized nazis within their military ranks and the other side hasn’t
Or did you miss all those Russian interrogation videos that shows russian troops strip searching POWs for sign of nazi tattoos
What am I saying of course you missed it, cause actaully engaging with reality or the evidence is toxic to liberals these days
Russia has a underground nazi problem, Ukraine is a nazi state, get the fuckin difference
So you’d say that you uncritically support a capitalist state?
No one here unironically supports capitalist Russia uncritically
We’re reading different comments my friend.
Nope, everyones reading the same comments, you’re just being an obtuse little troll and intentionally misconstruing what everyone is telling you
That’s totally on you
sO yOu’D sAy tHAt yOu uNcRitIcAlY sUPPOrt a cApITaLIst sTaTe
Seriously? That’s the best you got dipshit, you can only speak in accusations and thought-terminating cliches? Get a grip motherfucker, liberals like you are reason neo-nazism has been so normalized
I’m not the one rooting for the capitalists to beat the other capitalists.
Is that supposed to be a own? Yes I prefer Russian capitalists defeating Ukrainian nazis, so Russian communists don’t have to face both western backed Russian and Ukrainian nazis
Again get a grip you nazi supporting motherfucker
I don’t understand your position. So, in the event of an imminent second Russian revolution, your supposition is that Ukrainians would be a significant counterrevolutionary force and that the US wouldn’t intervene militarily, and so if there are fewer Ukrainians, there’s more likely to be a successful second communist revolution in Russia in the near future?
And you think this is a reasonable take to have. And that it’s the land border with NATO that would be the big issue in a military conflict with the US?
This is such a bonkers take to have in light of the absurd probabilities involved. You’re like a chud who buys a gun because you think you’re going to take on the Marines.
I don’t even know how to parse this.
What? They said that the Ukrainians need to be dead so that the next revolution would succeed in Russia. At least that’s how I read it. How did you interpret it?
palestine (capitalist) and iran (capitalist) should destroy israel (fascist)
Even if you assume this is just an interimperialist war, its basic Leninism for western communists to support and propagandize for the defeat of your own imperialist bloc in that war.
America’s been losing wars for a long time and no socialist project has ever erupted from it.
Revolutionary defeatism doesn’t seem to work very well.
Vietnam turned a majority of Americans against the military for a number of years and gave black radicals enough room to create the Black Panther Party and end legally sanctioned segregation.
Was that worth the lives of all the Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians who were killed, or the generations afterwards who died from unexploded ordinance or birth defects? I don’t think that’s such a clear cut “yes”.
Point being that non-interventionism would have been preferable, which is the position I’ve been taking all along.
Revolutionary defeatism includes undermining your own nation’s war effort, I don’t understand the difference in your position. If you can’t prevent the war, you undermine the capacity to continue it.
Since the left isn’t in any position to stop the war the better outcome would still be that the smaller bloc of capital survives as a counterweight to hegemonic capital. Better if the Russian federation remains friendly to China, and remains available to anti-colonial movements as a counterbalance to colonial forces in Africa and the Middle East (regardless of how effective they are, it seems these anti-colonial governments still want them). It’s better when capital is divided and limited than unified and able to exercise unlimited exploitation.
It seems like the Ukrainians wanted a peace deal almost immediately after the threat to Kiev, it wasn’t Russia or the Ukrainian government that blew up those peace talks.
Realistically, there’s no way this war doesn’t end with Russia gaining Donetsk and Luhansk and not much else (because they don’t really want anything beyond that, short of regime change in Kiev, which is definitely not happening). Both Russia and the US seemingly have the resources to indefinitely drag out this war just sitting on the same battle lines. Continuing the stalemate only results in more needless death.
Also realistically, my capacity to “undermine” anything is 0, so let’s have this conversation with that in mind. Continuing: as already established, I don’t support the US’s efforts to continue this war. Similarly, I don’t support Russia’s efforts to do the same. I don’t think they realistically have the ethnic Russian support base to hold western Ukraine without serious loss of life for everyone involved. Because I feel the evolving multipolarity would have been occurring anyway, I don’t think the geopolitical implications of a western “defeat” here are worth the continuing loss of life.
Losing wars how? Sure they’re technical defeats but they get the job done and create regions ripe for hyper exploitation.
And how will this war be any different in that respect? Russia’s not aiming to annex all of Ukraine. The remaining rump state will be even more vassalized than before, win or lose.
Vassalized yet the billions of investments poured in left in smoke, and hopefully a landlocked rump state with half the territory will forever be unable to create a large economic powerhouse for NATO
Here it is, the chauvinism I knew you had exposed by your own hand
The fact that you’re the only person who brought the term “uncritically” into it goes to show how much work you have to do to make up a position to be smug towards.
i critically support them destroying NATO Nazi militaries on their border
Capitalism is a spectrum
Aren’t Russia attempting to dissolve Wagner and killed all the main leaders (including neo Nazi Dimitry Utkin) in the Wagner plane crash on August 23rd this year, after the attempted Wagner coup? Tell me when Ukraine will do anything similar to Azov. And no, their half arsed integration of them into the Ukrainian armed forces does not count. Last time Zelenskyy tried to get the fash to stand down, before the war started in earnest, he got embarrassed on camera. Russia has a problem with Nazis and fascists, but it’s not nearly as big as Ukraine’s Nazi problem. There is no way someone like Bandera would be viewed as a national hero in Russia.
Lemm.ee ass comment
Still waiting for a source on their being nazis on the Russian side. People keep alleging this, but never provide any evidence.
The mercenary group named after Hitler’s favorite composer aren’t Nazis?
Some of y’all actually uncritically support Russia, huh?
Wild.
Richard Wagner died before the Nazi party existed, he wasn’t a nazi. I have no idea why Wagner group was named that - tbh a ton about Wagner is very mysterious. But no, I’ve never seen any evidence that Wagner group were Nazis.
I despise a whole lot about the post-Soviet government of Russia. But yeah, I completely support Russia in their noble war of self-defense against the fascist “west.” And that’s is, afaik, basically the majority opinion on this website. What the fuck are you doing here lib?
I haven’t looked up Wagner in a while. I don’t think I ever ran in to why it’s called that.
Afaik most people treat this as an “Enemy of my Enemy” thing. NATO is much, much worse than Russia. This war can weaken NATO. NATO winning is very, very bad because it reinforces NATO/US hegemony and would give NATO access to vast new natural resources as they carve up Russia, to say nothing of the massively increased risk of nuclear war as Russia disintegrates. A victory for Russia, especially a decisive victory, could greatly weaken NATOs position in the world. That would open up the possibility of multipolarity, which could create space for left movements to grow without being hunted down and destroyed by the US/NATO. It would give China more room to maneuver, as well as less powerful communist states. It might increase the chance of the US balkanizing, which would be horrific for those of us who live here but has a chance of benefiting the world.
Afaik very few people support Russia, but we recognize that a Russian victory is the most desirable outcome of this farce. Preferably sooner than later given the horrific amount of death and destruction.
Things are already badly fucked - Ukraine is firmly in the grip of fascism and the war has greatly advanced the cause of international fascism. It’s strengthened the fascist position across Eastern Europe. The EU and US are both supporting the Double Holocaust narrative openly now. It is likely that weapons from Ukraine will flood Europe over the coming years facilitating terror and violence.
In terms of geopolitics, Russia is the least-bad guys. Nothing more, nothing less.
I don’t think you can blame this on the war. This is just something becoming more of itself under pressure/heat. If you put sea water on boil it’s going to become saltier. You can’t blame Russia for the already existing contradictions and fascism of the west coming to a head
I don’t blame Russia. NATO has been working towards this war since it was founded. The war was used to purge dissident elements in Ukraine and has been used as a cause celebre for fascism. That’s all to the advantage of NATO, and NATO instigated the war by constantly pushing strategic encirclement of Russia.
Yeah, basically 100% agree with this.
I’m pretty sure the dominant position is critical support. It’s just that criticism of Russia is not that frequent because discussion of the war with libs is almost always in a context that assumes NATO framing. At least in the news mega people are dunking on the Russians regularly.
This. Libs don’t care that the Communist Party of Russia is a nationalist joke, or that smaller communist groups are largely suppressed, or that the left in Ukraine has been suppressed if not actually liquidated, or that Leftists across eastern Europe are being suppressed by new laws and increasingly brazen fascist regimes. All they care about is the bogus good guys bad guys narratives. They’re openly hostile to the concept of geopolitics or really any complexity at all.
The Wagner Group itself is just a PMC with all that implies, but its subgroup DShRG Rusich are quite openly neo-Nazis.
Wikipedia (edited by NATO friendly nerds) says this group contains “several dozen people”
What is it about Russian capitalism that you like so much? Which of their anti-LGBTQ laws do you find more appealing than the west’s?
Not supporting Ukraine is one thing (which I think is the actual majority opinion on this website), but rooting for Russia is an entirely different thing.
My position is that I do not give a shit who wins because they’re both fascist.
Nothing, I already established that.
Liberal nonsense. They aren’t. Further, Russia isn’t the global hegemon, they aren’t the power holding up the capitalist-imperialist world system. The US is. In this war, the Ukrainians are US proxies. The victory of Russia over NATO is a good thing for all the oppressed and marginalized people of the Earth. NATO victory would be catastrophic. Honestly, I despise liberals like you so fucking much. Normally I expect shit takes like this from federated shitheads. What are you doing here?
Your position is that Russia is not fascist, is that right?
Correct. They are not.
How many laws criminalizing the self-expression of LGBT individuals does it take before a country becomes fascist? What about industrial capitalist collusion with the government? How much of that before you’re fascist?
In my eyes, the instant Yeltsin divvied up the state industries and created the oligarchs, he created an inextricable bond between private capital and the state.
Sir we all know this word is not actually part of your lexicon
I spent the first 18 years of my life in South Louisiana but go off.
GJ, I could feel the restraint it took to end that sentence at ‘off’
what?
Oh I think you’re implying that it took effort for me not to misgender you, maybe? Weird thing to say.
Hitler hated tobacco
Rusich Group
Phenomenal
Edit: So I took the bait. I got beat up. Phenomenal bait.
This ain’t bait. Ukraine is a nazi state backed up by the 4th Reich (NATO). Russia isn’t.
deleted by creator
Every state use violence to sustain itself, not sure why you think this is a particularly interesting own. Russia is a Liberal capitalist state under attack from the global hegemonic empire and its proxies. Just like Gadaffi’s Libya was, or Syria’s Assad, or Sadam’s Iraq. In all these cases, we oppose the American empire in it’s imperialism. You cannot extend the same courtesy to Russia because your brain has been poisoned by 7 years of russiagate hysteria from liberals and 100 years of anti-communist red scare propaganda in your culture
deleted by creator
Russia should achieve victory in this war against imperialists. We can criticize Russia’s domestic and internal policies, but geopolitically they are in the right. Seems you have a hard time getting onboard with even critical support against your empire
deleted by creator
Only one side has nazis integrated into the military and armed with western weapons
Jerusalem Post included Prigo on its list of 50 influential Jewish people, so I guess Wagner can’t be Nazi
Source?