There’re better words to use in any situation.
To make the point more clear. As much as people tend to use it in the way they do for words such as ‘like’.
I mean people will just say f you, instead of thinking of a witty insult or express an emotion with more expression.
For example, say you want to express that a person is fat, which one is a more cutting way to tell someone they’re fat:
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“You’re a fat-f**k.”
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“Don’t bother trying to stand up. I know you haven’t done that in years.”
One more thing, As much as there is a time and place you don’t curse, it’s not a matter of “appropriateness” to me; what matters more is the impact of what’s said. I hope my example showcases that.
One last thing, - cause I just starting to realise this matter more to people than I thought it would (nothing wrong with that of course) - cursing doesn’t necessarily subtract from a remark as if it’s a negative number in a math problem, it’s just redundant for speaking (more often than not).
Southsamurai©sh.itjust.works gives a good example of cursing is bland as apposed to just using your brain.
Someone saying “I’m tired of this fucking rain” is more boring than someone saying “I really wish thor would give us a warning before bukkakeing the world”.
I just realise this will work as a post in a unpopular opinion space if that exist, lol.
If I hit my little toe against the bed’s leg, the right word is “fuck”.
Swears are a sledge hammer. Many tasks don’t require a sledgehammer. But sometimes you need a sledgehammer.
@[email protected] This post was reported for fatphobia. I understand that you are using it as an example but we do want to avoid attacks on specific people or groups of people. Like you showed in your later posts, people swear at all sorts of things, like the weather, stubbing their toe, and missing the bus.
Do you mind changing the example in your original post? You can say that the example was changed at my request. Especially if you think changing the example will make the comments confusing.
Otherwise, I like your post. It’s an interesting thing to think through and while it seems to be a little unpopular, my thoughts in the shower are often not fully thought through and would stand up poorly to the scrutiny of internet strangers.
Thanks for the support.
One thing about the offensive language.
Swear words are offensive by nature. I not sure how to write an example of a bad basic swear-word example without it being tagged as offensive.
This further adds to my point that swears are lazy and can mean anything to anyone.
If I can make a subjestion; can we mark it as nsfw or mark the post as having offensive language?
Otherwise, give a swear-word I can use that’s safe to use, and I’ll try to make it work.
Thank you for reading. Hope you’ve a great day.
I dont have the ability to tag it NSFW. If you edit your original post you can tag it NSFW. source: https://lemmy.world/post/463392
Swear words are fine. Attacking people’s weight (or age, sexuality, gender, etc) should be avoided.
I’ll admit that there is gray area in this rule. On Lemmy there are many instances of posts mocking celebrities for different characteristics but the posts seem to be permitted if the celebrities are largely disliked.
I’ll see if I can add NSFW…
I always felt people who are concerned with this are compensating for something.
Not true. Nothing quite gets the point across quite like “shits fucked.”
Shidders fucked
What I’m seeing here is someone who REALLY likes witty quips, but is very upset that nobody else appreciates them.
I’m with you, buddy. None of my snappy responses ever convinced a bully that I was worthy of respect, but his constant repetition of movie quotes always got a chuckle from his cronies.
Smart people know big words, but smarter people know when to use them. Making an impression on others isn’t about proving that you have higher value than someone else, it’s about proving that you are one of them. Reminding people that you’re different from them pushes you away.
Or, I might just be projecting shit I’ve been through. Maybe it’s useful to someone.
When I was but a youth, my mother used to regale me with this bit of wisdom: “Profanity is the result of a weak mind attempting to express itself forcefully.”
Sometimes I’ll reflect on this and think, “God damn, that bitch was a dumb fuckin’ cunt if I ever met one!”
Fuck that lol. Curse all you want, but curse to people. Not at them
This is so far from unpopular.
The general social mores are against cursing. While that has been slowly changing, it hasn’t reached a tipping point yet.
It’s also not a new opinion. There’s a lot of sayings related to it, my favorite being “cursing just gives people permission to ignore you”.
The rest of your post? Flawed examples. But that’s just my opinion, you do you.
Yea I get what you mean, Thanks.
Inregards to the flawed example, how is it flaw?
I’m getting cooked over here, anything will help.
Well, it was one, I just didn’t catch the typo of examples instead of example.
But, you’re using an insult. Your example is already something nasty to say, no matter how you say it because you’re attacking someone. Using curse words is no more or less effective at pissing the person off enough to shoot you (as an extreme but possible outcome).
For an example to work to support your opinion, it has to be undirected because directed statements are never neutral to begin with.
A better example would be something like pointing out a painting you don’t like.
You could say, “that looks like something a five year old vomited up after drinking finger paints”
Or, “that thing is so fucking ugly it makes me want to vomit”.
As long as the person you’re saying it to isn’t the artist, owner, or a dedicated fan of the artist, you have a relatively controlled example where the main difference is the presence of cursing.
See the difference in the examples? If I call you a giant moron, it doesn’t matter much if I say fucking moron instead. It’s the insult that’s doing the work, not the adjective.
Now, this applies at any level of creativity. “You’re about as pleasant as the south end of a north bound mule” is relatively creative, as is “you’re a bigger asshole than the north end of a south bound elephant” very similar insults, with the significant difference being the cursing.
In that specific example, it could even be argued that the use of profanity increases the effect, and it would, depending on the target. Cursing is an amplifier in a huge swath of the population. “You’re a jerk” isn’t as effective as “you’re a fucking jerk”, because that extra step outside of social mores deepens the aggressiveness of the insult.
It’s definitely subjective. There are people that would be more insulted by a well crafted, profanity free barb. But, on the whole, insults are about aggression and challenge. It’s a form of dominance display to an extent. So using insults as an example for the effects of cursing is flawed by nature.
Now, a better example yet would be the weather. Someone saying “I’m tired of this fucking rain” is more boring than someone saying “I really wish thor would give us a warning before bukkakeing the world”. Is bukkakeing an actual word? Doesn’t matter, but it struck my mind lol. You can replace the jizz reference with “spitting on”, if you feel sexual matters serve the same role as cursing.
Once you remove the insult factor, it becomes more about the cursing itself, which makes a better example and point of discussion.
I appreciate the examples and the info.
If you don’t mind I want to borrow your rain example for the post, with credit of course ;).
As for the insult sting ability, I understand that if your going to make a sentence long insult then cursing dosen’t seem to weaken it’s effect, others brought up that it doesn’t hurt the insult if swears are used.
I also understand that being offended can be subjective.
I just find that if your going to try to be cunning with words, why give somone the ability to say “You mad bro?”
It’s harder & more biting to think of the words where they’ve to think about whats said than having it morph into a shouting match or something along those lines.
For the second point. Maybe I’m just terminally online, but it seems as if everyone curses & only knows how to curse. When I see a true insult it’s as if a breath of fresh-air & it usally stops the other guy in their tracks for a bit. It also has the funny factor for me, but I’m willing to accept that it’s my own view on humor.
Outside of christian mom’s or people saying not to curse here for: advertisers to feel safe or because it’s inappropriate to say it in front of children, my experience is the lemmys down-voting me & saying I’m wrong seem to be the norm for people.
Again, I understand where you arrive from, policing speach isn’t cool & people end up doing it for the reason, usually for offensive speech hurts people. I just find curse words to mean anything & everything, & I just don’t find it that hurtful. For example, I live with Jehovah’s witnesses that curse. I had my mom curse at me when I was little. It just seems to be “I’m angry” written edgyly if it has emotion at all.
Hope you understand what I mean, if not, let me know.
Feel free to use the example.
And I get where you’re coming from for sure. No worries there :)
aside from your opinions on cursing, mocking people for being fat is not cool.
just like people are born with different hair color, people’s bodies look different. You can’t tell based on somebody’s body type whether they’re living as healthy as they can.
Some people could have illnesses that make them fatter. Some people are just fat and healthy. In all cases, you should not mock people for being fat.
What are you? 13? Just let people use whatever words they want. You might think that there is a “better alternative for any situstion” but sometimes nothing like a good “fuck you” drives the point home. It expresses hate in such a simple way without trying to be performative or witty. Also you can say fuck, we aren’t in the middle school courtyard for god’s sake
If cursing makes you feel more adult then be my guest.
To me it’s more immature to curse than to point out that cursing won’t hold the weight of a good insult.
Scientific studies have shown that curse words relieve physical pain better than any alternatives.
So there are some situations where anything else is a worse option.
I guess don’t how to break it to you that saying “f you” is not creative without being on a high horse then.
Also, speaking of cope. To say that a person using curse words instead of a witty remark is somehow smart cause smart people use curse words doesn’t sound right but I don’t how else to interpret of the ETA you made.
I guess don’t know how to break it to you that saying “f you” is not creative without being on a high horse then.
I give you a decent counterargument with some bonus alliteration and all you can muster is a strawman?
Also, speaking of cope. To say that a person using curse words instead of a witty remark is somehow smart cause smart people use curse words doesn’t sound right but I don’t how else to interpret the ETA you made.
You’ve reversed cause and effect here. I didn’t say that all people who curse are smart. I said smart people curse.
You’ve argued from a cliché, from a non-sequitur, and from a strawman misrepresentation of my original point. I hope someday you look back and cringe at your small-minded pretentiousness in this thread.
For the 1st point, all I read is that smart people curse, & I’m on a high-horse for pointing out cursing isn’t that creative.
You don’t seem to refute that cursing isn’t super creative, so I fail to see the counter argument here.
And if you going to say that I’m condescending for what was stated, then guilty as charge, I guess.
For the sencond point, read again what you wrote me. I see “smart people are more likely to use curse words.”
That doesn’t state when nor to what degree do they curse.
Also my point is that there’s better words to use then swear words, I fail to see how it’s suppose to matter that smart people use swear words.
Again I ask, does it make the swear word more intellient because someone smart says it as oppose to a witty remark?
The best speakers tend to not use them if we’re going to bring who says what in this.
3rd point, clichés exist for a reason. I hope that after you let out the steam (probably by cursing), you can see how - even in your rage - you thought of insults instead of cursing. Would hate to think it would show you as lacking brain power than the smart people cursing away somewhere.
Much of the time communication isn’t about being creative or coming off smart. It’s about effectively conveying meaning with the tools you have. Sometimes that means simple, crude language is more effective at conveying something than all the wit in the world.
So when I’m in a situation that calls for its use, I don’t care that “fuck off” is a dime-a-dozen phrase that doesn’t make sense. It’s never misunderstood, it’s cathartic to say, and I don’t need to think on the spot to figure out something more eloquent to say.
Ok, I understand what you’re saying, saying “f you” is faster & easier.
2 points I want to make:
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I getting this sense that instead of speaking to someone, it’s to let off steam. As you put it, “it’s cathartic to say.” I find that telling of a weak character to need to blow off steam because of a conversation they’re having.
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Since curing usally indicates aggression, I can’t help but think if you are short on time then making people feel aggression is not the smart thing to-do.
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why is letting off steam indicative of a weak character? I think that when under stress, it’s actually indicative of someone being emotionally intelligent to recognize they need to let some stress out and find an avenue for it. I can’t explain exactly why, but swearing has always been a pretty effective way for me to let out some stress mid conversation while staying focused on a problem.
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some contexts call for aggression. i.e. If someone’s making me or someone I care about uncomfortable in public, it can be pretty useful to bare my teeth back. A simple “fuck off” doesn’t require me to engage with any of their bullshit at all, gets the point across, and carries it with a mild aggression that actually does make people fuck off much of the time.
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it is imprecise, but in many contexts it’s precise enough to convey displeasure and dismay enough to get the point across. In fact the power of “fuck you” is in how concise yet universally applicable and understandable in so many situations.
For the first point, I fail to see the cursing dosen’t show your anger, if it’s going to be used to blow off steam. People have curse absent-mindedly when angry, I’d know, I’ve done it before. What good is this emotional intelligence if it’s going to give you the same results as if a person without it when in conversation?
The thinking of cursing being the method to use (with the understanding that we’re thinking of affective methods - not just punch someone in the face) doesn’t sit right. I understand getting angry (we all been there), however, you’ll be surprise in the power of taking a couple seconds to think it through.
When you think you have to say the thing that pops into your head right away, it ends up being ineffctive for commucation & won’t let others see the emotional intelligence that you’ve.
I know this seems to be meme, but meditation & being mindful of your surroundings has help me “let out steam.” I also work on improving myself, when you try to remove curse words, you can find where you feel you need to say it and thus work on methods to help with that. When I think of emotional intelligence, I think of understanding the emotions you’ve & not letting them control your actions (think stoiticism).
For the second point, this only works when you can leave the situation and not have to worry about the consequences; it’s not going to work with cops, it’s also not going to work well for family (I’d know, having my christain grandma say f-you to me isn’t fun); I, in fact, find it hard to think of consequence-free moments for it.
For the third point, I see that depending on context, it’ll work, then it should work for wit, no? I fail to find the difference between wit and swearing in communicating outside of it being easier to curse. If the point is cursing is faster & easier, then you’ve a point, but I’m thinking you meant something else or something more. Even for expressing anger, I find the clam looking anger to be more emotionally intelligent than throwing out a curse word that even a child can do when having a meltdown.
Ultimately, we’re discussing two different styles of communication that I don’t see as any better or worse than each other - everyone finds what works for them in their circumstances and environment and your style probably works great for yours!
There’s a fair bit of hostility and harassment I encounter in public for various reasons, and I also have some inherent difficulty processing speech and verbalizing. As a result, I take a pretty blunt approach to communication - one in which I do not mind showing that I’m angry, because that is a necessary thing to be sometimes.
I practice mindfulness a lot and do not generally feel required to say the first thing that comes to mind. But if a drunk asshole is following me home, I’m not looking to outwit em. I’m looking to stay focused on my safety while letting em know that I see em and I’m probably more trouble than they’re looking for.
In serious conversation with people I care about, I do swear, but it’s because phrases like “I’m so fucking sorry that happened to you” come naturally to me and are effective. The emphasis that a little bit of swearing can add in moments like that is pretty useful.
This all doesn’t have to be your thing, like I said this is all down to personal preference - but it would be a mistake to assume that people who swear aren’t communicating as meaningfully. It’s just another tool that we have at our disposal.
Sorry to hear about the speech problem; and I can relate to the hostility problem (It’s why I try to understand others rather than freak-out and get nasty, although I’m not perfect at it).
Unironically, the reason I don’t curse is because it helps me speak better and focus on the emotions (that I’ve) that aren’t so clear to me. Cursing - from my point of view - can get in the way of understanding and engagment of speech & emotions.
As for picking one or the other, let try to put the shower thought in one sentence, since I seem to have lost the original point, somewhere in having these coversations:
Cursing is uncreative & tends to be use as filler words.
Maybe it’s too obvious to people that they assumed more than needed (the - “there’s always something better to say,” probably didn’t help, I’ll admit that.)
I genuinely thought it was intersting idea, since I’ve used them as filler words & I seen others do it too.
I noticing trends with the post, and - while responding - starting to see the can of worms I’ve opened up; I really thought this post would get something around 3 votes and 1 comment.
I understand and relate to most of speech ( and in art in general ) can boil down to personal preferences.
Speech to me can be a little bit more than that, but I’ll rest my case here.
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Then, to curse is to show that your a wimp.
Anti-cursing for the win, baby.
That’s a non-sequitur
And this is called not understanding a joke.
Guess it needed the /s then?
Yes, it did need the /s.
Good on you for reflecting on your ineffective communication and correcting course.
Would it help make it more sarcastic if I added some f**ks in the sentences, sensei.
/s
What meaningful things are you saying instead of cursing?
Depends on the situation.
Ugh. There’s a book about how to be a better boss, and one of the things it says is that adding a mild curse to otherwise normal speech will convince people you are being sincere. My boss read it.
“Well, this damn job isn’t going to build itself!”
“Aw shit! Lunch is over! Back to work!”
It was so awful.
You’ve my sencerest condolences.
That sounds as if a punch-line that an alien trying to learn how to be human would have in a comedy.
He was the worst! Zuckerberg levels of pseudo-humanity. Of course, he got promoted up and away.
