Thank fuck. This man can go down in history as the savior of the Republic if he fucks off and endorses someone else.
Please not kamala…she has no chance
My concern with him leaving is who would replace him???
My worst nightmare, is the hag from 2016 returns. She’d lose again, guaranteed, and before you say no. The signs are there, she’s been getting her face out there and testing the waters. And she still likely has the money/clout to buy another DNC nomination.
I think that even the fucktards at the DNC realize that we need a fresh face.
Too late. This entire system has been based on taking away your choice. No primary in my state because there’s only one candidate. Can’t possibly outraise the incumbent.
“Who else would you pick?”
We will never fuckin know because choice was taken from us.
One can hope, but really have my doubts.
All we need is a charismatic person and the country will vote for them. The American people can not stand uncharismatic blowhards and yet Dems keep trying to shove them in our faces. They are obsessed with tradition and this “my turn” bullshit. Enough is enough already.
Newsome is charismatic but would be a hard sell to Georgia and the Midwest.
Whitmer would be good since she’d motivate more women to vote and would do will in the Midwest.
Harris is right out. She has negative charisma.
Raskin has charisma but he’s an old ugly white guy. Wouldn’t turn out the youth vote.
Jeffries would be a good pick if he had started campaigning a year ago.
Stacy Abrams is in the same boat. If she had a year to get more name recognition she’d have a chance.
Aoc, Crockett, and moskowitz are good back benchers but won’t be ready for a few more years yet, if ever.
If I had to choose it’d be Whitmer. She has the fewest negatives, as long as there are no skeletons in the closet waiting to come out.
Here’s a recent poll where Michele Obama came out more than two margins of errors of ahead of Trump.
Also, here’s a pile of salt.All solid names. Any one of them has my vote.
Yeah and give it two weeks and they’ll all poll worse because the spin machine aimed at them.
People are deluded to think a fresh face is gonna be better than the incumbent.
You are underestimating how stupid the average voter is. We couldn’t get the Midwest to vote for Hillary in 2016 and that was suppose to be her safe zone. The smallest advantage is still an advantage for trump. People have been saying they don’t want Biden since 2 years ago and this only makes it worse for him. Being incumbent president means nothing at this point.
The stupid average voter is barely even aware of anything, let alone one bad debate. They haven’t had to think about Biden for four years. They won’t even remember that come November if they ever did hear of it.
You’re trading complacency and incumbency for a complete unknown. That’s the dumbest fucking thing you can do, to put it lightly.
I’d vote for a bag of Biden’s toenail clippings over Trump. Stay in the race or leave, I don’t really care, so long as they’ve got a winning strategy to follow. Trump has done enough damage to this country - let’s not give him another round.
I wish only the best to not-Trump, whoever that ends up being.
Many, many shitty scenarios. No clear answer as to what the right choice is and if we lose well always be second guessing what could’ve been.
Anyone telling you this is an easy choice, or is speaking with absolute confidence is full of shit.
There is no way to undo people seeing his mental decline for over an hour in real time. But even if he steps aside, it is pretty late in the game to put resources and spreading the word about who is running and getting people out there to vote for them.
The New York Times? Running a story about something that makes Biden look bad? Anonymous Source?
It all checks out. The bots have received their programming and we will all be getting pummeled with this shit for the next week or until their programming changes.
We were gonna get pummeled with it for the next week regardless.
I may be 100% wrong, but this feels like a leak that’s meant to buy time.
Pure speculation, but I could see them asking Democrats to withhold judgment on calling for him to withdraw just for a short time in order to give him a chance to change the perception.
And stories like this are a way to signal to the rest of the party to hold their fire … for now.
I think he’s holding on for the Stephanopoulis interview on Friday. He’ll either announce it then or hold that up as a “See! See! Paw Paw still has it”.
If the goal is to have the party hold their fire, I think you can see how it’s working in this thread. It makes people talk about it more, not less. Why would they want that if they don’t want to withdraw?
It has a certain bullshitty smell, but maybe Brandon will come through.
To be asked to step away after one bad debate performance is a shitty pill to swallow. Especially for a guy like Biden, whose performance in office has been outstanding IMO.
I do not give a fuck who is D on the ticket. I’m still voting D because the alternative is disastrous. If Biden stays, I am voting for him. With the exception of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, the administration has been very competent. Remember, that old man doesn’t do much. The work is done by his team. Now think back on the work and damage the Trump team did. The choice is easy.
What if it’s Manchin or Sinema?
Is that the buccee’s squirrel? That place is amazing.
Yep. I used to live in Austin, plus I don’t fly so I drive everywhere. Buc-Cee’s and Cracker Barrel are my refuge on the road.
And genocide is just an american government thing. You don’t become president of the US if you aren’t willing to play ball.
But if you don’t become president then you don’t have the power to enact that change.
Thank you! It drives me nuts that this isn’t the key takeaway in every post and article I see. On one hand we an amped up old man who would sell out his family for a dollar, let alone the rest of us who is friends with dictators and thinks they’re really sharp people with good ideas, and is also a convicted felon who surrounds himself with other current or future convicted felons, and has been saying for years he wants to imprison or hurt his critics. On the other hand, we have a barely older, regular old man who at least has good intentions, hires competent people, and who makes mistakes but admits to them and learns from it, who happens to be very stereotypically old man. How people are making this an apples to apples comparison is insane.
This behavior with Joe didn’t start at the debate. It’s the same Joe we’ve had for years. And this isn’t new, even for people younger than Biden is.
Guardian, 2008: Fatigue and racism threaten to knock Obama bandwagon off the road
Barack Obama was showing signs of campaign fatigue. Sitting on a picnic bench in a park on Pagoda Street, Indianapolis, in discussion with a group of 30 supporters, he told a story about the “modest” background of himself and his wife, Michelle. And 10 minutes later, seemingly having forgotten, he told them it all again.
It is hardly surprising, given that he has been on the road almost non-stop since Christmas, battling Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination. In recent weeks, he has often seemed absent-minded, forgetting the names of the towns he is in.
Tiredness is the least of Obama’s problems. After a relatively smooth and well-planned march towards the Oval Office, his campaign is facing its greatest crisis. “He is in the middle of a shit storm,” one of the journalists travelling with him said.
With the exception of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, the administration has been very competent.
Two exceptions: Biden’s refusal today to use the power the SCOTUS decision gave him to rein in the court is also incompetent (not to mention, suicidal).
The work is done by his team
And this is really important. He’s got some kickass people he’s appointed. Id vote for Joe just to keep Lena Khan at the FTC. All those people get replaced by fascists in the event Trump wins again. Unlike last time, every single member of his administration is going to be a loyalist.
I’ll vote d no matter what. I’d take a dead d over a live r.
I’m really glad to see he’s recognizing the reality of the situation… unlike, say, the economy or Gaza.
If he goes forward with the notion of “What are you talking about, Jack? I can still win!” then it’s over.
Dear Joe,
You made it. You ran for president for decades, and you finally did it. On top of that, you did the best you could dealing with some genuinely absurd and unprecedented issues, and all told did a completely acceptable if not a pretty good job.
Now, if you actually care about the country you’ve spent your entire life serving, it’s time to resign, let Kamala finish out your term, and give her the opportunity to run the race as an incumbent. There is no shame in recognizing the time has come. Literally everybody gets old, it’s kinda fundamental. To be clear, I don’t like Kamala one bit, I think she’s a problematic candidate with a problematic record, and a terrible communicator. But she’s an intelligent and vital human being with relevant experience. Stress on the vitality, meaning she’s not in her final months of life.
Sorry, but your age really does matter. Frankly, you have one of the only jobs in the world where your age matters so much. Kamala won’t embarrass us nearly as much as you did during the debate. There’s nothing you can say that will convince me that you’ll magically get younger and more vital in the next few months, so again, if you care about this country, you need to step aside immediately, and put all of the party’s establishment support behind Kamala. Anything less is selfish. If Kamala, as an incumbent president, can’t beat Trump—a man who promises to use his new immunity in the worst ways possible—I don’t think you would again either.
Sincerely, An exhausted patriot
I mostly agree with you. That said I don’t think Harris should be considered a replacement. Who I want to see is some combination of Gretchen Whitmer, Elizabeth Warren, AOC and Pete Buttigieg. I do recognize none of those are likely to run and I’m no expert on who should.
I also don’t want Harris, but pushing out the only black person on the ticket for a bunch of honkeys might irritate some voters. I don’t see why she can’t stay as the VP candidate. It’ll just take some coordination.
I’m with you, I’m not a fan of Kamala. I think any of your suggestions would be a way better candidate than her if she hadn’t already won on the current administration’s ticket. The fact that Kamala’s name was on the winning ticket is huge. Incumbency is so important, arguably way more important than it should be, but even a few months of being president would give her a huge leg up over any candidates who might look better on paper. It would take a ton of humility on Joe’s part for this to be a viable plan, but I think he’s capable of it.
Nothing about this situation is ideal, so I’m prepared to settle for pretty much anyone other than Trump.
That’s like some magic spell or something. Being the president for a few months, while you actually spend most of your time campaigning, can not possibly make someone that much more electable.
Not Harris. Full Stop.
Who the hell would it be? The DNC isn’t going to convene next month and appoint an all new candidate that no one has even pretended to vote on. At least with Kamala they have that justified. She was on the winning ticket and she is the current vice. I hate Kamala and she has a lot of bad traits for running against Trump, mostly the fact that she’s a woman would be enough to reinvigorate the Republican party. I would much rather see an AOC or Warren for my personal tastes. I hate the current conservative democratic party. But no one out of left field would be realistic in this situation. It would splinter the party at a bad time. Everything is so fucked all we can hope for is a sentient human to run for office.
It is realistically Biden or Harris. And even more realistically it is Biden. No way this changes now.
Not Biden and not Harris means you want Trump to run unopposed at this point unfortunately. Almost all of the state filing deadlines have passed. TBH I’m not even sure if Harris could run.
Oh so if Biden and Harris died there wouldn’t need to be an election?
Or does their dying mean Chuck Schumer is the Presidential candidate for Dems?
If Biden dies it gets super hairy because every state has different rules. Either way the RNC is going to challenge eligibility in basically every blue and purple state because why wouldn’t they?
May as well get it over with then. RepubliQans can officially choose party over country and end all debate as to whether they’re a billionaire funded incompetent mafia or not.
I mean, practically speaking, she’s the most realistic option with the way stupid internal party politics work. Again, I don’t like her, and I like the Democratic Party establishment even less, but I like democracy more than I dislike her. Since her name was on the ticket, Joe would have a much easier time transferring his delegates to her at the convention. Many of those delegates are bound by their state law to vote for Biden, btw. If he steps down, they could relatively easily go to Harris instead. Anyone else would require a bloody open convention that I’m not confident the party could survive, let alone win the race after.
I’m open to anything that lets us win, honestly. But we can’t afford to just shut down alternatives because it sounds hard or might not be exactly what we want. Have any suggestions?
“realistic” less so than “convenient”, imo, and the run-up would be a shitshow of all her previous press plus the crucible of 24/7 media coverage which - she’s ok but I don’t know that she’s up to that. That doesn’t fill me with more confidence than Biden - markedly less.
Alternatives for me who are mixes of strenghths are: Warren, Schiff, AOC, Bernie, - and I’ve come around to Whitmer, I mistakenly confused her with a different politician at first. She’d be preferable to Harris if only for the reason that theoretically she’d come with Michigan. Possibly others, but agreed on wanting to prevent an open convention fight, that’s a helluva gamble.
Yeah, all good and valid points. I’m a big fan of Whitmer, but AOC is my favorite on that list to be sure. As much as I love Bernie, he’s too old. I just don’t see it being easier for any of them than it would be for Harris, taking into account the institutional party support she would automatically have if Biden resigned.
I think you’re totally right that Harris would struggle with constant media attention though, so that’s not great. But ugh, I just want this to be done.
AOC/Bernie? He’ll once again call on you for your support!? 😄
If Joe Biden sticks around and manages to win, he’ll be remembered as a pretty average president. If he sticks around and loses, he’ll be remembered as a politician whose arrogance hurt the whole country.
If he withdraws without more fuss, he’ll be remembered as an unusually decent and humble president, regardless of the results of the election.
If He steps side and the next D loses, it would also be biden’s fault for throwing away his encumbancy advantage.
Remember, whoever gets chosen to replace Biden, even if it were Ronald Reagan, or mitt Romney, Trump and company will say they are even more liberal than Biden and will take away guns, force all women to get post 9 month abortions etc. And Maga, conservatives will believe it since there’s no evidence to the contrary. With Biden, he hasn’t fine those things these past 4 years. He’s Only “done a bag job”
I feel like Biden is in a difficult situation and voters are partially to blame for electing Biden in 2020 over another younger/healthier candidate (i voted Bernie who is old, but seems healthier than Biden in some ways).
(i voted Bernie who is old, but seems healthier than Biden in some ways).
Because Bernie has universal healthcare in his heart
If Joe Biden sticks around and manages to win, he’ll be remembered as a pretty average president.
Hardly. What is that based on? Are his accomplishments boring to you?
Oh, I see you’re just making the case for him to withdraw. Eh, fair enough.
I mean whether it’s true or not is one thing but there are plenty of articles about how poor his administration has been at communicating victories. That would prolly play into it.
Huh.
If they need to release articles informing the public of his victories because they have reports showing the public isn’t aware of his victories it would play into his legacy of being an average president. If everyone already knew about the victories they wouldn’t have printed those articles and would then be more likely he was remembered as an above average president.
The public isn’t aware of shit. That’s not a reflection of the victories, that’s a condemnation of the media people consume.
Well, yeah, I am making the case for him to withdraw. I think he’s a very good president and if he remains the Democrat candidate I’ll vote for him. I just don’t think enough people feel the same way for him to win.
His accomplishment are, indeed, boring to the average voter. His agenda was the Democrat agenda. It was the right agenda, in my opinion, but any Democrat president would have been about the same. Willingly stepping aside, on the other hand, would be a noteworthy gesture of humility that we don’t see often.
It’s pretty disheartening. People had a better opinion of the economy when me and my friends could only get jobs that paid in experience for 5 years.
But in that case, even during the highest unemployment, most people still had their jobs so to them the only difference was things were cheaper, people were willing to do things for you for less money (or free of you’d tell your friends how helpful I was).
First and foremost: The New York Times has a very well known anti-Biden bias https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/25/new-york-times-biden-white-house-00154219
Second: While it is very important to understand that not all sources can go “on the record” this… is purely a rumor from an unattributed source “close to the president”.
So can we please stop cheering on russian/ccp/trump propaganda?
Oh, are we allowed to point out media bias now that it’s against neoliberals? I can’t keep up with the rule changes, progressives have always been attacked for pointing that out.
Absolutely true. But they also understand running this particular story isn’t their usual, harping, crypto-republiQan article.
I think (unless they’ve decided to go full evil), they actually have this source who actually heard Biden say that. That’s really all we need to know.
If he bows out, I’ll breathe a sigh of relief. In a way, it doesn’t matter if he had a cold and jet lag during the debate, and he’s tip-top now. In fact, I’ve watched footage of him since the debate, and it seems to be true. He’s back to his normal self.
But the political damage could be too much, regardless of his actual health.
At the same time, if he doesn’t bow out, I will gladly crawl through broken glass to vote for him.
It’s July. Who the fuck is supposed to replace him? These articles are fuckin pointless.
Buttigieg, Newsom, AOC, Kamala, etc, etc, etc. take your pick from any of the prominent Democrats.
AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC,AOC, AOC, AOC, AOC.
ABSOLUTELY Has my vote. But we have to wait a cycle or two for the old fucks to die off before she has a real chance.
I was just thinking that AOC isn’t old enough but she turns 35 in October, good timing.
Yep, I had checked her age the other day because I knew she was close. I don’t think all the right of center Dems like Biden and Pelosi would get behind someone that progressive. They want someone that is going to play the both sides game, and play everything safe and like it’s 1990 and we don’t know that in 2024/2025 Republicans are going to try to burn the whole thing to the ground.
Got to wait another cycle or so until all the old fucks die off.
AOC/Bernie 2024! “Time to Take Out the Trash!”
“And in a historical turn of events, every member of the DNC over 50 has elected to just…not vote this November. Calling it a once in a generation political upset, mainline Democrats have almost unanimously elected to…not elect anyone. One such non-voter was on record not outside of a polling station saying ‘I can’t in good conscience vote for someone who actually seems to stand for something. It’s just not what you’re supposed to do as a Democrat and it’s not in accordance with any beliefs I might have had, if I had ever decided to have any.’”
Pfffffth. Yeah no.
There is someone in office right now whose only real job is to step in if the President can no longer do the job. Remember her?
Kamala Harris has the elect-ability and personality of a potato that you left on the counter for too long and it grows eyes.
Yeah she isn’t inspiring, which is what we need. If she came out today, though, and said she will bring the law down on the GOP’s corrupt elements… That might win enough hearts and minds to stir folks out to vote for her. And a good VP pick would inspire further confidence.
But she would really have to hit the ground running and improve her image.
The odds of that are abysmal.
I compare her more to broccoli or peas. Nobody’s favorite food, but gives you the proper nutrients to fight fascism. Now shut up and eat your peas.
If it’s Harris we’re toast. Plain and simple. If I’m proved wrong in that, no one would be happier than me.
Polls show her doing as well as Biden.
The thing that’s going to win this election for the democrats is abortion. Harris might be good on that aspect of the race.
Which was potentially the previous three years
We don’t have time for people to talk him into doing the right thing…
He needs to step out ASAP so the party can move on and unite under a candidate that doesn’t have such shit polling numbers if we want to beat trump.
Who is that going to be, I’ve not seen any polls that show potential candidates doing better.
Leaked internal memo with post-debate polling data showing a strong preference for Biden alternatives (especially Whitmer and Buttigieg) in key swing states: https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
…
You expect someone that doesn’t have an active campaign to have better numbers than someone with the full weight of the DNC behind them?
Whitmere has the best approval numbers of anyone the DNC would let run. 69% of voters have neither a positive or negative opinion of here, and in 2024 that’s pretty fucking good.
“That’s the problem with old men. You can kick 'em down the stairs and say it’s a accident but you can’t just shoot 'em.”
-John Ruth
Eh. If it takes 1 or 2 weeks, so be it. As things stand, we’re getting trump and America is gone.
Eh.
I think even with Biden it’s close to a 50/50 shot of beating trump.
I just don’t like those odds and don’t understand why we’re plowing ahead with two candidates no one really wants as president.
I just wish Biden and the DNC were taking this election seriously. This could be a walkin victory with AOC or even Whitimere.
and don’t understand why we’re plowing ahead with two candidates no one really wants as president.
That’s easy to understand; it’s because the two primary political parties run the show from bottom to top and they both managed to make serious political miscalculations at the same time.
Democrats screwed up by repressing all their younger members for the past 15-20 years in favor of their established power brokers; now their cupboard is bare right when they need it most. The Republicans miscalculated by assembling behind Trump in the first place and then they did it again by re-assembling behind Trump.
If this country’s politics weren’t being totally controlled by Ds and Rs now is when a 3rd Party Candidate (Libertarian, Green, etc) could gain some serious traction.
You can’t honestly say that no one wants trump. There are actual die tards for him.
I wish AOC was willing to run for the presidency.
“die tards” lol.
Unfortunately I’m in a red state that only went D once in like 30-40 years, and that was for 08 Obama.
So I feel like I have a pretty good insight.
I haven’t seen a single trump sign or even new bumper stickers this year. Which is crazy compared to the last two elections.
People wouldn’t fucking shit up about him. This cycle? It honestly feels like it’s not even am election year.
I wish AOC was willing to run for the presidency.
The only negative people have for her is she’s the most progressive option. So I really think we need to start pushing for someone like Boots Riley so AOC isn’t the furthest left people hear about.
Like, let’s just get an actual communists name in the mix. Boots will never win, but he’s charismatic, really good at getting his message across, and shit, I think he’s still cool enough with Tom Morello that he’d jump at a VP chance.
Old heads know him from his rapping, he even had a song with Tupac.
Younger people might know him from writing/directing “Sorry to bother you”.
But he also wrote directed “I’m a Virgo” and it shows just how fucking on point he is with messaging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpagmvYZKRc
He might not ever win an election. But he makes AOC look like the centerline moderate shed be in any other first world countey.
It’s very difficult for ambitious people to admit that they’re done. Once you reach the pinnacle, it’s hard to give up, because the only way forward is down. LBJ is held up as an example, but it was difficult for him, too:
On Inauguration Day (January 20, 1969), Johnson saw Nixon sworn in, then got on the plane to fly back to Texas. When the front door of the plane closed, Johnson pulled out a cigarette—his first cigarette he had smoked since his heart attack in 1955. One of his daughters pulled it out of his mouth and said, “Daddy, what are you doing? You’re going to kill yourself.” He took it back and said, “I’ve now raised you, girls. I’ve now been President. Now it’s my time!” From that point on, he went into a very self-destructive spiral.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson
Consider how screwed up the SC is right now. Yes, a lot of that is due to Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham playing games, but it’s also due in no small part to RBG not resigning when many told her she ought to. Now, it’s quite clear that she was capable of the job at the time, and would only be stepping down for political expediency, so Obama could have named a younger replacement. If RBG had retired, and the court was less of a clusterfuck, we might not have appreciated how important that moment would have been.
It’s hard enough to take the car keys away from Grandpa, it’s harder to take the keys to power away.
It’s hard enough to take the car keys away from Grandpa, it’s harder to take the keys to power away.
People aren’t even really trying to take Biden’s keys away…
They’re just saying we’re not letting him drive the kids to Country Kitchen Buffet anymore.
We don’t know if there’s going to be an accident this time, or ever.
It’s just bad risk assessment to let him keep going to until an accident happens
Even if he beats trump, that doesn’t mean he’ll be a capable president at 85 when this next term is up
The problem is that I don’t think the odds are appreciably better with any other Democrat.
https://www.newsweek.com/gretchen-whither-chances-beating-trump-poll-1919211
That’s my concern too. Harris was closest at about the same percent as Biden. Though it did increase the amount of people who would say they’re not sure when compared to the Biden Trump race. It’s possible a new candidate might have some wiggle room to convince more swing voters. So I think there’s an argument to be made that some of the potential replacements have a higher ceiling than Biden does that they might get to even if they start at a lower polling basis. I would feel a lot better about a switch if someone was actually polling better than Biden already though.
These ones were earlier from February 2024, and though it was only in a single poll, the only person who recorded a higher percent than Biden in a poll was fucking Joe Manchin, ugh.
~69% of voters neither approve nor disapprove of Whitmere fro president.
She’s the best shot we have that the DNC would appoint.
And I have zero reason to doubt shed beat Trump. Plus as the recent victim for a kidnapping plot, she’s going to take the risk of fascists seriously.
Among the full US public, Biden’s favorability rating stands at just 34%, with 58% viewing him unfavorably. And while many of the Democratic names bandied about as possible replacements for Biden are less widely disliked, none would start with more public goodwill – instead, they are less well known. Harris has the widest recognition – and is also deeply underwater, with a 29% favorability rating, 49% rating her unfavorably, and 22% saying they have no opinion or haven’t heard of her. Roughly half of the public has no opinion on Buttigieg (50%) and Newsom (48%), with about two-thirds (69%) offering no opinion of Whitmer.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html
She’s not beating trump in head to head polls yet. But if she was the candidate she likely would be. And I think that head to head poll is from Data for Progress anyways, which has a whole bunch of issues.
But it’s important to remember that literally anyone’s numbers would go up in head to head polls if they had an active campaign and the DNC supporting them.
Biden already has that, it’s as good as it’s going to get for him, because the more voters interact with him, the worse his numbers get.
Even Harris is polling better, and doesn’t have the pro-genocide baggage. If polls are to be believed she has a better chance, and if she does then I feel like basically anyone does.
