“What’s happening in Gaza is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said at a Jewish American Heritage Month event at the White House.

I can’t tell if he’s pandering or trying to lose the election

  • Moonrise2473@feddit.it
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    7 months ago

    Biden stressed his belief that Israel was the victim dating back to the Oct. 7 attack

    Yes, we are not disputing that. Israel definitely was the victim at the time. But that doesn’t mean they’re allowed to kill so many innocent people that we now have lost the count

  • Elle@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Original article: https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-whats-happening-gaza-is-not-genocide-2024-05-20/

    It’s pretty clear to me Biden’s trying to thread the needle on this in a gruesome way. The argument seems to follow the form of: civilian deaths are collateral damage, this is unfortunate but this is war and they are not purposely being targeted and so this is not genocide.

    However that almost willfully ignores the denial and blocking of aid to the same affected civilians, which is a deliberate action that despite the cover story being to prevent it reaching Hamas, falls entirely flat as regardless, it results in direct suffering and death of the civilians. I say almost because some small efforts have been made to push back against the denial of aid, but as is evident to anyone monitoring the situation, these efforts are all far too small to address the widespread suffering and death of the Gazan people.

    This whole semantics game around genocide is simply disgusting. You know those in government know exactly what people mean when they’re calling it that, they want an end to the killing and an end to the deaths of civilians, whether from military strikes or denial of aid.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      7 months ago

      Him or Trump. Both of them would probably be more popular if they just shut the fuck up once in a while.

      • retrospectology@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        One day I want to see someone get elected based simply on the fact that they just don’t say anything. Like, Mr. Bean their way to the presidency.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          7 months ago

          That would be Calvin Coolidge, aka “Silent Cal.” Supposedly, he was once bet that he could be made to say three words, and he replied, “you lose.”

          That said, he’s not an especially highly-rated president.

  • Treczoks@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Explain then what killing people by coordinated starving, displacement, and exposing to unhealthy and life-threatening situations by the IDF is in your opinion.

  • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Its not genocide because its not from the Atroci region of sub saharan Africa or the Geno region of Central and Eastern Europe.

    It’s actually sparkling murder induced relocation of an indigenous people, based solely on their ethnic identity, specifically to bring about the destruction of said ethnic group.

    I hope that clears everything up.

    • ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      It’s more like he knows liberals and young people have to vote for him or they’ll get a fascist instead.

      • febra@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’m fairly sure many people will just not go to the polls. I think he’s banking on a very risky and stupid idea here.

        • GroundedGator@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          There are many people under the age of 25 who do not fully understand what happened on January 6. They are being inundated with news of genocide and how Biden is directly responsible. They do not fully understand what the first Trump presidency was. Only politics junkies seem to understand the threat of project 2025 and plan 47.

          We have an entire generation who hate Biden and didn’t see the threat of Trump.

          • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            Assuming that’s correct; instead of pretending they’ll somehow magically all start understanding the “Trump threat” in the next 6 months, maybe Biden and the Dems should start actually giving them what they want. It’s not even a big ask. Just don’t do genocide. And definitely don’t do genocide and then say it’s not actual genocide. No one gives a fuck what you call it. Anyone with a conscience can see it’s wrong.

            Anything short of giving young people whatever it takes to get them to show up for Biden is basically supporting Trump for president.

      • inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        True up to a point. Youth at least are very fickle and very demoralized already with the lack of opportunities to be financially screwed.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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        Kinda looks like they’re getting a fascist either way - it’s kinda hard to make the case that somebody who supports with gifts of weapons and ammo a violent genocidal fascist movement activelly murdering civilians, including tens of thousands of childrens (some of which activelly targetted by snipers and using precision bombs) and activelly targetting medical personnel and journalists, isn’t himself a genocidal fascist, no matter what else he says: after all, even Hitler had a good side (he liked dogs) but that didn’t make him any less a genocidal fascist.

      • rammer@sopuli.xyz
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        7 months ago

        They’ll get a hard core fascist with Trump. With Biden they’ll get a fascist-lite. None of the offensive parts of fascism. Just the corruption and special interests dictating policy parts.

        The US administration is so corrupt that it is hard to get anything useful done. Even if it is something that has been obvious for decades.

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      More like he wants average middle aged swing state voters to vote for him, since those are the only people that really matter and they are typically pro Israel.

      • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Okay but seriously who’s out there, wringing their hands, trying to figure out if they’ll vote Trump or Biden? No one. If you’re voting for Trump, there is absolutely nothing Biden (or Trump for that matter) could do to change your mind. All those centrist neolibs in the swing states are going to vote for Biden regardless, because there’s no one else for them to vote for. The true “undecided voters” are undecided between showing up and just not showing up. And shit like this just pushes them closer to the not showing up position. Every time Biden panders to his already locked in centrist base, instead of trying to get progressives to show up for him, it should be considered a willful attempt to get Trump elected.

  • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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    7 months ago

    Remember, it’s only genocide if it originates from occupied Poland. Otherwise, it’s just sparkling mass extermination.

    • Guydht@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Nah, it’s only genocide if it’s carried with the intent to target the whole ethnic group, including civilians. Something that if the IDF really wanted, would’ve meant 100 times the casualties.

        • Guydht@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          A thing which isn’t happening, considering there’s food in Gaza…

          Maybe in the start of the war when there was a blockade, but that’s an order from the israeli government and they’re getting an arrest warrant for it.

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            That’s great consider telling the IPC about it their website must be full of mistakes. Glad you cleared up this myth that israel is committing Genocide with a statement from the incredibly trustworthy israeli army.

        • Guydht@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I wasn’t clear. Apologies.

          I meant whole as in both terrorists and civilians. And they’re not doing that, they’re targeting Hamas. If they’d target civilians, then x100 the casualties.

          • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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            7 months ago

            What if the IDF is pursuing a strategy of plausible deniability? What might that look like? The current violence is seeing Israel losing support throughout the world. If the IDF were to start a straight-up Holocaust, those countries that are protesting now might take direct military action to stop it. Plausible deniability might include, say, fostering the creation of a radical militant group, and directing funds to them in order to create a Big Bad to fight against as cover for genocidal land theft.

          • aliteral@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            But they are effectively genociding palestinians. Not only by collateral damage in Gazs but through land theft and killing in the West Bank.

      • n3m37h@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        What? Siding with IC and stating Ben is a war criminal is pro Isreal?

        Mind passing some of that shit you’re smoking to me

          • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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            7 months ago

            What about RFK? He’s crazy but also probably the first ‘good person’ to run for office since Obama, and unlike Obama might actually follow through on his antiwar promises.

            • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              He’s insane in too many ways and unreliable on anything he promises. That makes him a better fit for Trump supporters. But they’re too locked in to switch. If Kennedy had half a brain left he would have realized he’s going to help Trump get elected.

              • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
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                7 months ago

                He’s currently taking voters from both sides of the line. More from Trump. You’re imposing a false dichotomy and making shit up with little to no logical backing, which if you had half a brain left, you wouldn’t do…

                • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  He’s not the “good person” you think he is. He’s just another mediocre Kennedy coasting on the privilege of his family.

  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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    7 months ago

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/SantaCruz-Spegazzini-CaidaAnimation.gif

    The neoliberal colonialist stranglehold world order is collapsing so fast it is making my head spin.

    The centrist, austerity minded democrats who have enjoyed power in the US for the last couple of decades are absolutely self immolating, they look like utter absolute murderous clowns when they claim with a straight face that the Palestinian Genocide is not a Genocide.

    Make no mistake this is a turning point, no matter what happens in this election, this kind of democrat who supports whatever Israel does because… well because… to the point of pretending an ongoing genocide being done with your weapons and fighter jets doesn’t exist is toast.

    No matter what happens in this election, the kind of mainstream media that is towing the line Israel by giving them complete diplomatic and narrative immunity towards being the bad guys when Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinians every day as we speak… it is detonating the strangehold of conservative, ideologically bereft centrist who have been trying to manage the global status quo without actually conceding to progressive changes to it.

    The critical change here is that milquetoast democrats used to be globally regarded as at least somewhat rationale and ethically minded compared to the dumpster that is american conservatism, but this genocide is thoroughly proving to the world that most centrist democrats are just the good cop to the bad cop republicans, and if push comes to shove a good cop has no problem filling in for the role of bad cop when they perceive it will retain their violent power.

    I really don’t think the rich and powerful who controlling basically everything in the US have any idea how deep a majority of US citizen’s revulsion over the pointlessness of the Iraq war has burrowed into their psyche. They really don’t get it, they think we are just going to roll over and accept US imperialism/military industrial complex as “just the way it is honey” like our parents did but we are FAR stronger and more politically aware than our parents were and FARRRRRRR more jaded in a way that makes us suspect of the basic legitimacy of the military industrial complex at every turn we have to interact with it.

    • Knoxvomica@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      While I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, holy FUCK, you need to learn how to break up your thoughts with a period. You have 5 paragraphs and 6 periods.

      • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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        7 months ago

        Errrr…. you realize the US is one of richest nations that has ever existed and yet ~95% of people living in it are one or two crises away from collapsing?

        There are homeless everywhere and if anything centrist democrats are giddy to criminalize the state of being without a home. Biden was an instrumental part of the crime bills that came to define some of the most vivid failures of neoliberalism. Kamala Harris has a similar history. Have these politicians evolved and changed? Yes of course but that isn’t my point.

        My point is that is it really disputable at this point that modern centrist leftwing political groups in the US, UK and similar political environments are as associated with austerity policies as rightwing politicians? There are degrees of difference, but it is a contrast of magnitude not of ethics of attitude.

        • Delta_V@lemmy.world
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          There are no left wing political groups in the US. Closest thing we’ve got is a centrist named Bernie who has no political party supporting him, and a ‘squad’ of Democrats pretending to be progressive while they support culturally conservative politics, virulent ethno-nationalism, and violently ignorant theocracy in other countries.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    So, how much and for how long does one need to support a genocidal fascist movement actively murdering civilians including tens of thousands of children, before it’s fair to describe such a person as a genocidal fascist himself?

  • ParabolicMotion@lemmy.world
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    I think the ICC is handling it better. There are two groups in that area that want to murder people, and there are now warrants issued for their arrest. I just don’t think America should have become directly involved.

    Building a pier and trying to send in aid is a nice gesture, but Palestinians are killing each other for those boxes of food, and Israelis are attacking aid vehicles. It’s starting to look like Blackhawk Down.

    Biden backed Israel by giving them weapons because Hamas had taken so many Israelis hostage. If he had picked the other side when news of the hostages began to spread, society would have been calling him a Nazi.

    Both sides in this war want to kill each other. There are children in both sides of these groups that are suffering. How can anyone pick a side and hope that they kill the other side? It’s inhumane. Let the terrorists be arrested.

  • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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    Where are the Biden boyfriends that call everyone that criticizes biden a Trump supporter? I said multiple times on lemmy that a lot of people go above and beyond to support this horrible person who repeatedly mentioned his fantasies for an israeli state and serving it since he was a kid.

    Trump is worse but that doesn’t mean you can’t criticize this piece of shit.

    And the worst thing is I live far away from the US and still get called Trump supporter for calling this sicko a sicko.

    • WolfLink@lemmy.ml
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      There’s a lot of people who think it’s a good idea to not vote in the hope that Biden will lose and that will teach the DNC a lesson.

      • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        That is a bit shortened. We demand Biden to stop supporting this genocide and start upholding international and US law in order to get a vote.

        Saying you will vote for him no matter what just encourages the DNC to do whatever they want. Democrats fear the pro Israel lobby as that lobby will follow through on not giving them their votes, if they dont play their ball. If other people would realize their power by following through if the Dems refuse to listen, they could force the Dems to actually be a party of human rights and basic dignity and justice for all.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      Trump is worse but that doesn’t mean you can’t criticize this piece of shit.

      Trump says the quiet parts out loud. That’s what ultimately makes him “worse”. While Biden’s handlers give him the PC

      Um, Actually its not a real genocide because it didn’t occur in the genocide region of Auschwitz,

      Trump’s out there saying

      Israel is killing all the terrorists and that’s good aktuly and we should be more like them.

      But get down to the policies at hand and there’s no daylight between them.

      So much of this election boils down to liberals being forced to face the nightmarish specter of modern American policy even from within their blue state enclaves. With Biden, they can pretend its all being done for good reasons and with a respectable veneer of Rules Based Internationalism. With Trump, they’re forced to watch a guy fuck the rest of the planet with the lights on, while his backers whoop and cheer and siege hail on national television.

      But it boils down to optics. Whether we’re gearing up to bomb Iran, whether we’re buy Xinjiang textiles with one hand while wagging a finger at Beijing with the other, whether we’re giving Exxon subsidies to “research hydrogen alternatives” or just cutting them blank checks to drill baby drill, whether we’re holding kids in cages on the border under a rogue Republican governor or a fascist Republican president, its all the same fucking policies.