I actually made a comment about this down below, it’s not a great approach in most cases, but for eg- A serial killer or a rapist, it will show what will happen if you a devalue someone else’s life
Do you think a death penalty for netanyahu unfair, in fact not giving a death penalty is unfair to all the children and women and everyone else he has killed
Do you think a death penalty for netanyahu unfair, in fact not giving a death penalty is unfair to all the children and women and everyone else he has killed
Fair? What does fair mean? Does an execution un-kill the victims? What a ridiculous notion that any sort of punishment for a perpetrator could be “fair” for the victims.
The death penalty is an abject failure. It has no benefits and numerous issues. Practicing barbarism can never be justice.
it definitely will make other people think twice before they do the same thing
There is absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.
There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals. According to the National Academy of Sciences, “Research on the deterrent effect of capital punishment is uninformative about whether capital punishment increases, decreases, or has no effect on homicide rates.”
I honestly don’t like to trust a country where you can get away for being a literal child rapist, but the above is just my opinion, we don’t even need evidence to know that the standard strawberry method of giving them merely some jailtime is not working either, but whatever, I am not a law expert
I believe that most developed countries have gotten rid of the death penalty, and a big part of that is because it doesn’t work as a deterrent.
Very few people decide whether or not to commit a crime based on the punishment. Most criminals think they won’t get caught at all, or if they do, they think they’ll get away with it in court.
This slightly misses the mark. The majority of crimes, including violent ones, are not committed by people performing a risk calculus. They’re done with minimal thought and more often than not in the heat of the moment. Effectively, they are not crimes that you can deter because for a crime to be deterred, the potential criminal has to assess whether it makes sense to commit the crime. This works in cases of like financial fraud and white collar crime. Someone shooting another person during an altercation, not so much.
Yeah there’s a way to deter crimes and it’s increasing the certainty of punishment. Overly severe punishment actually has an unwanted effect of increasing the severity of crimes. If a rapist is going to die if caught that incentivizes murdering the victim who is inherently a witness.
Rapists murder a lot of their victims anyway but this kinda makes sense, but it also kind of goes back to my point that the rape itself should be stopped by fear, everybody knows rape=bad, it’s just that people decide whether some jailtime is worth it or if they might be able to get away
Thanks here for this comment, I feel like I see where my stance might not make sense, ofc death penalty should not be given in cases like this where emotion takes over, I am rather taking about ppl like trump and gates and Netanyahu who are completely sane, they just kill for their own benefit
Ppl here have assumed that just because I said ‘I see reason’ means I feel like you need to kill everyone who commits this, No, I am saying that I don’t know the exact circumstance, it might or might not be justified, I hope we can clear this up moving forward
That is my point, anyone who commits this should be always caught and be given the penalty, they should not be able to get away, no matter they are rich are poor
And what level of certainty do you need? Keep in mind uncertainty means innocents are murdered by the state and 100% certainty is difficult enough that it will generally put you into the anti capital punishment camp.
Also it sounds like you have a failure of understanding how the rich get out of punishment. Yes sometimes it’s like Brock Turner where it’s blatant. But other times it’s because they can afford the means to hide evidence and sow doubts. And when all else fails they’re more likely to have ins with judges or the ability to flee preemptively.
No matter what follows this…yes, we do. You should need evidence to believe anything; understanding of course that the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence needed.
giving them merely some jailtime is not working either, but whatever
Then imprison them for life. Guess what, life imprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty, and can be overturned if there’s an error.
Yes, we should also be addressing the failings of our penal system(s). Unfortunately, many around the world, and clearly yourself included, are more interested in retributive “justice” than habilitative functions.
Lol one example would be a rehabilitation for many, you would save countless amount of money and lives as well and effort on jails because as i keep on saying people will think twice, why are they killing others in the first place? I also said that It should be up-to the judges, if someone is mentally ill, he should of course be offered rehab, but people who are completely sane and kill just to earn some money or whatever the hell they want should not enjoy the same leniency, lemmy loves to throw the word propaganda around but fails to acknowledge they might be a victim of it too, I maybe a victim as well, that’s why I always respect and try to understand other peoples opinions as well as long as they don’t force it on others, but never will you see me like ‘You are a murderous piece of shit’
That is the same thinking that those who own hand guns think. They think they will be safer, yet all the stats indicate other wise including all the children accidentally firing a gun and killing a family member. If risk of death was a deterrent, the USA would be among the safest place in the world.
I am not saying you should just order a public execution whenever you want, the judges should decide in which case it’s suitable, you won’t want to kill someone because they accidentally ran over someone, but for a child rapist?, make an example out of them, I am not saying everyone should have a say in whether this sort of punishment should be made or not, only judges with a lot of experience, unlike the america gun issue where anyone can just go up and buy a gun relatively easily
I used the search functionality, they have a degree in criminology, history, and law.
I don’t know how common that combo is, neither do I want to cast doubt on this person’s comments… but it doesn’t help that the majority of them defy logic at every turn.
Just yesterday, @[email protected] told me they know more than South Africa about apartheid, and thus Israel cannot be an undemocratic apartheid state. They also told me that when America didn’t allow women and black people to vote, it was “still a democracy”. But they also said that an apartheid rule is when a minority has control over a majority (this is the only definition they offered)… that would mean, by @[email protected]’s own definition, that America before suffrage for women and black people was an apartheid state.
I deleted my comment due to some drama, but I remember also having pretty long conversations with this guy, who thinks that just because hamas exists, Israel is free to genocide
Same here… for me it’s that the pretends to respect Palestinian life then says something that amounts to excusing genocide and 75 years of Israeli opression all in the same sentence.
Youre a moron and have no idea what you’re talking about. Please stop tagging me. I don’t care what you have to say any longer.
You post irrelevant links constantly, you lie about what they say, you lie about what you think I said, and it’s exhausting to try and correct you. I’m not your dad or your teacher so kindly fuck off and leave me alone. Do you understand?
I will admit that part of my mind would support making a public example of any fascist leader, but any public execution or punishment serves only to normalize that violence.
Would I condemn anyone involved with the death of Mussolini? Absolutely not. Best of luck to any Israeli anti fascists in the right time and place.
I feel like the problem is that we make emotional decisions, what might seem fair to us might not seem fair to the victims family and vice versa, I feel like I will let the authorities be the one to decide and respect it, I don’t think you normalize violence by a public execution though, instead you instill a feeling of fear in the public about what would happen if you do such a serious crime
Taliban does a lot wrong, but I can get behind the logic on this kind of thing if I am honest, I feel instead maybe the victims family should be given a choice? Idk
you instill a feeling of fear in the public about what would happen if you do such a serious crime
Do you think the members of the general public are often considering committing those kinds of crimes?
“Gee whiz, I sure wish I could be a serial killer. Too bad they publicly executed that last serial killer, though! I’d better move to the US, where executions are done in private!”
I feel you don’t understand what I am trying to say, but what I am trying is that just one example will probably drop the rate faster than bitcoins value, see places like saudi arabia where crimes are law just because of these laws existing, even if they are not enforced
And no people won’t get violent, that’s like saying people will get violent by seeing a school shooting, it’s not like a person will get hanged everyday, atmost it might be something like every 5 years, especially if they make it somewhat negotiable with the victims family
I actually made a comment about this down below, it’s not a great approach in most cases, but for eg- A serial killer or a rapist, it will show what will happen if you a devalue someone else’s life
Do you think a death penalty for netanyahu unfair, in fact not giving a death penalty is unfair to all the children and women and everyone else he has killed
Any cases.
Fair? What does fair mean? Does an execution un-kill the victims? What a ridiculous notion that any sort of punishment for a perpetrator could be “fair” for the victims.
The death penalty is an abject failure. It has no benefits and numerous issues. Practicing barbarism can never be justice.
It doesn’t unkill the victims but it definitely will make other people think twice before they do the same thing
There is absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.
US Department of Justice
I honestly don’t like to trust a country where you can get away for being a literal child rapist, but the above is just my opinion, we don’t even need evidence to know that the standard strawberry method of giving them merely some jailtime is not working either, but whatever, I am not a law expert
I believe that most developed countries have gotten rid of the death penalty, and a big part of that is because it doesn’t work as a deterrent.
Very few people decide whether or not to commit a crime based on the punishment. Most criminals think they won’t get caught at all, or if they do, they think they’ll get away with it in court.
This slightly misses the mark. The majority of crimes, including violent ones, are not committed by people performing a risk calculus. They’re done with minimal thought and more often than not in the heat of the moment. Effectively, they are not crimes that you can deter because for a crime to be deterred, the potential criminal has to assess whether it makes sense to commit the crime. This works in cases of like financial fraud and white collar crime. Someone shooting another person during an altercation, not so much.
Yeah there’s a way to deter crimes and it’s increasing the certainty of punishment. Overly severe punishment actually has an unwanted effect of increasing the severity of crimes. If a rapist is going to die if caught that incentivizes murdering the victim who is inherently a witness.
Rapists murder a lot of their victims anyway but this kinda makes sense, but it also kind of goes back to my point that the rape itself should be stopped by fear, everybody knows rape=bad, it’s just that people decide whether some jailtime is worth it or if they might be able to get away
Thanks here for this comment, I feel like I see where my stance might not make sense, ofc death penalty should not be given in cases like this where emotion takes over, I am rather taking about ppl like trump and gates and Netanyahu who are completely sane, they just kill for their own benefit
Ppl here have assumed that just because I said ‘I see reason’ means I feel like you need to kill everyone who commits this, No, I am saying that I don’t know the exact circumstance, it might or might not be justified, I hope we can clear this up moving forward
That is my point, anyone who commits this should be always caught and be given the penalty, they should not be able to get away, no matter they are rich are poor
And what level of certainty do you need? Keep in mind uncertainty means innocents are murdered by the state and 100% certainty is difficult enough that it will generally put you into the anti capital punishment camp.
Also it sounds like you have a failure of understanding how the rich get out of punishment. Yes sometimes it’s like Brock Turner where it’s blatant. But other times it’s because they can afford the means to hide evidence and sow doubts. And when all else fails they’re more likely to have ins with judges or the ability to flee preemptively.
No matter what follows this…yes, we do. You should need evidence to believe anything; understanding of course that the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence needed.
Then imprison them for life. Guess what, life imprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty, and can be overturned if there’s an error.
Anyone who has spend a week in jail knows that life imprisonment is much much worse than death penalty
Yes, we should also be addressing the failings of our penal system(s). Unfortunately, many around the world, and clearly yourself included, are more interested in retributive “justice” than habilitative functions.
Lol one example would be a rehabilitation for many, you would save countless amount of money and lives as well and effort on jails because as i keep on saying people will think twice, why are they killing others in the first place? I also said that It should be up-to the judges, if someone is mentally ill, he should of course be offered rehab, but people who are completely sane and kill just to earn some money or whatever the hell they want should not enjoy the same leniency, lemmy loves to throw the word propaganda around but fails to acknowledge they might be a victim of it too, I maybe a victim as well, that’s why I always respect and try to understand other peoples opinions as well as long as they don’t force it on others, but never will you see me like ‘You are a murderous piece of shit’
Crime is decreasing year after year except during the pandemic. What do you mean it’s not working?
That is the same thinking that those who own hand guns think. They think they will be safer, yet all the stats indicate other wise including all the children accidentally firing a gun and killing a family member. If risk of death was a deterrent, the USA would be among the safest place in the world.
I am not saying anyone should be able to give a death penalty, the judges should be able to, not teens or children
Can you rephrase as I am not understanding your point I think.
I am not saying you should just order a public execution whenever you want, the judges should decide in which case it’s suitable, you won’t want to kill someone because they accidentally ran over someone, but for a child rapist?, make an example out of them, I am not saying everyone should have a say in whether this sort of punishment should be made or not, only judges with a lot of experience, unlike the america gun issue where anyone can just go up and buy a gun relatively easily
I have a degree in criminology and there is no truth to this. People don’t ever rationally decide to do crimes.
Do you really have a degree in criminology? What kind of lawyer are you exactly?
deleted by creator
I used the search functionality, they have a degree in criminology, history, and law. I don’t know how common that combo is, neither do I want to cast doubt on this person’s comments… but it doesn’t help that the majority of them defy logic at every turn.
Just yesterday, @[email protected] told me they know more than South Africa about apartheid, and thus Israel cannot be an undemocratic apartheid state. They also told me that when America didn’t allow women and black people to vote, it was “still a democracy”. But they also said that an apartheid rule is when a minority has control over a majority (this is the only definition they offered)… that would mean, by @[email protected]’s own definition, that America before suffrage for women and black people was an apartheid state.
I deleted my comment due to some drama, but I remember also having pretty long conversations with this guy, who thinks that just because hamas exists, Israel is free to genocide
No worries, I understand.
Same here… for me it’s that the pretends to respect Palestinian life then says something that amounts to excusing genocide and 75 years of Israeli opression all in the same sentence.
Youre a moron and have no idea what you’re talking about. Please stop tagging me. I don’t care what you have to say any longer.
You post irrelevant links constantly, you lie about what they say, you lie about what you think I said, and it’s exhausting to try and correct you. I’m not your dad or your teacher so kindly fuck off and leave me alone. Do you understand?
Removed by mod
https://lemmy.world/comment/7897946
I will admit that part of my mind would support making a public example of any fascist leader, but any public execution or punishment serves only to normalize that violence.
Would I condemn anyone involved with the death of Mussolini? Absolutely not. Best of luck to any Israeli anti fascists in the right time and place.
I feel like the problem is that we make emotional decisions, what might seem fair to us might not seem fair to the victims family and vice versa, I feel like I will let the authorities be the one to decide and respect it, I don’t think you normalize violence by a public execution though, instead you instill a feeling of fear in the public about what would happen if you do such a serious crime
Taliban does a lot wrong, but I can get behind the logic on this kind of thing if I am honest, I feel instead maybe the victims family should be given a choice? Idk
Do you think the members of the general public are often considering committing those kinds of crimes?
“Gee whiz, I sure wish I could be a serial killer. Too bad they publicly executed that last serial killer, though! I’d better move to the US, where executions are done in private!”
I feel you don’t understand what I am trying to say, but what I am trying is that just one example will probably drop the rate faster than bitcoins value, see places like saudi arabia where crimes are law just because of these laws existing, even if they are not enforced
And no people won’t get violent, that’s like saying people will get violent by seeing a school shooting, it’s not like a person will get hanged everyday, atmost it might be something like every 5 years, especially if they make it somewhat negotiable with the victims family