Even so, much like how users of one email service such as Gmail can still send emails to users of another service such as Outlook, users may still view content and interact with users on any other instance in the fediverse
which implicitly says email is not considered part of the fediverse by comparing the two.
that’s not what the quoted text says at all… let’s rephrase this:
much like how users of one lemmy service such as lemmy.world can still reply to users of another service such as kbin.social, users may still view content and interact with users on any other instance in bluesky
this doesn’t say that lemmy/kbin isn’t part of the fediverse. it takes no position on that fact, merely saying that the things conceptually work in a similar manner
Your rephrasing changed it qualitatively. Of course it takes no position on whether Lemmy is part of the Fediverse considering it now does not have the word Fediverse in it.
Is the “fediverse” some sort of secret club that I’m unaware of or something?
The whole idea of the “fediverse” is that some aspect of it is cross-company, and federated across instances. Email fits that term exactly. The wiki entry doesn’t exclude email via the comparison, if anything it makes more of an argument that email is one of the first federated services to exist. The “fediverse” is just the collection of those federated services.
English isn’t my first language so I might be using “inherently” incorrectly, but I thought it means:
in a way that exists as a natural or basic part of something
So in its basic and natural form, email is not secure. It wasn’t designed as such. Full E2E encryption was only implemented recently by certain providers within their own domains, and won’t work across the board unless all of them cooperate, which won’t happen.
“Inherently” means essentially “no matter how you do it”. If you use an encrypted email provider to send a message to another user on another encrypted email provider, it’s perfectly secure. Ergo, it’s not “inherent”.
Full E2E encryption was only implemented recently by certain providers within their own domains
It definitely works across domains. All you have to do is point your domain at your preferred secure email provider.
@jimmy90@zeppo For sure. One major lesson off the top of my head is with ActivityPub is how errors are presented. I’ve written software to fiddle around with ActivityPub and found servers have terrible - if any - error messages. SMTP provides a bunch of standardised status codes that servers can give back to you, along with diagnostic info. In theory this is possible with apub but in practice it is not addressed at all.
Fediverse is ActivityPub. Email is not, though the theory is somewhat similar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
According to Wikipedia, ActivityPub is the “most widely used” protocol, but not the “only” protocol. Still not sure if email would qualify though.
The others listed are bluesky, nostra and farcast. I suppose we could count protocols that nobody uses…
They literally use email as an example in the wiki page, lol
The mention of email is
which implicitly says email is not considered part of the fediverse by comparing the two.
It seems like reading comprehension is not what it used to be.
“Much like” == “very similar too” AKA, “close, but no cigar”
You wouldn’t compare something to the same something, that’s kind of the point of comparisons.
that’s not what the quoted text says at all… let’s rephrase this:
much like how users of one lemmy service such as lemmy.world can still reply to users of another service such as kbin.social, users may still view content and interact with users on any other instance in bluesky
this doesn’t say that lemmy/kbin isn’t part of the fediverse. it takes no position on that fact, merely saying that the things conceptually work in a similar manner
Your rephrasing changed it qualitatively. Of course it takes no position on whether Lemmy is part of the Fediverse considering it now does not have the word Fediverse in it.
Is the “fediverse” some sort of secret club that I’m unaware of or something?
The whole idea of the “fediverse” is that some aspect of it is cross-company, and federated across instances. Email fits that term exactly. The wiki entry doesn’t exclude email via the comparison, if anything it makes more of an argument that email is one of the first federated services to exist. The “fediverse” is just the collection of those federated services.
You can call it whatever you want. Email has been around since the 70s. Bluesky and ActivityPub sure have not.
fair enough, i wonder if there are lessons to learn from email that can help the fediverse
Well for one, email is inherently insecure, so not sure if the fediverse can learn from that. It’s already not private.
It’s not inherently insecure. There are secure email services but all parties have to be using it.
Exactly, that was my point. Email as it is, is insecure, because you can’t encrypt it and make it work universally unless everyone else does.
Exactly, that was my point. That means it is not inherently insecure.
English isn’t my first language so I might be using “inherently” incorrectly, but I thought it means:
So in its basic and natural form, email is not secure. It wasn’t designed as such. Full E2E encryption was only implemented recently by certain providers within their own domains, and won’t work across the board unless all of them cooperate, which won’t happen.
“Inherently” means essentially “no matter how you do it”. If you use an encrypted email provider to send a message to another user on another encrypted email provider, it’s perfectly secure. Ergo, it’s not “inherent”.
It definitely works across domains. All you have to do is point your domain at your preferred secure email provider.
It doesn’t need to.
@jimmy90 @zeppo For sure. One major lesson off the top of my head is with ActivityPub is how errors are presented. I’ve written software to fiddle around with ActivityPub and found servers have terrible - if any - error messages. SMTP provides a bunch of standardised status codes that servers can give back to you, along with diagnostic info. In theory this is possible with apub but in practice it is not addressed at all.
@fediverse