My favorite part of the word salad that is their argument is that the Supreme Court of Colorado erred but a lower District Court that found that Trump took a different oath was correct.
But the district court ultimately concluded that section 3 was inapplicable to President Trump because he never took an oath “as an officer of the United States.” App. 282a (¶ 313) (“[T]he Court is persuaded that ‘officers of the United States’ did not include the President of the United States.”)
Because we literally have the minutes of the discussion when the 39th Congress discussed the 14th Amendment and indicated that Section 3 would “obviously apply to the President” and that the explicit mentions in Section 3 were to alleviate confusion.
Why did you omit to exclude them [The office of the President and Vice President]?
— Sen. Reverdy Johnson (D-MD)
Let me call the Senator’s attention to the words ‘or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States’
— Sen. Lot Morrill (R-MA)
Senator Morrill shut down outright the notion that section three could ever be considered as “not applying to the President”. That’s how obvious it was to the people who wrote the Amendment that the entire point was that “we had a civil war, but just because we won did not mean the Confederates nor their rebellion would cease to exist”.
More to the point.
This is to go into our Constitution and to stand to govern future insurrection as well as the present; and I should like to have that point definitely understood
— Sen. Peter G. Van Winkle (R-WV)
So let’s be entirely clear here. Section 3 absolutely applies to the President and it absolutely applies to ANY insurrection. There are zero other ways to read this. We literally have the minutes of the discussion at that time. This isn’t like we don’t know what they intended, they were very clear that future people would try this shit and they absolutely wanted that eventuality covered. And Congressional record is acceptable evidence into the Supreme Court. If SCOTUS today ignores this record, I mean fuck, there’s not a slicing it any other way than they’re attempting to play favorites.
And on that, I highly doubt they’ll buy this argument that Section 3 doesn’t apply. Now they may find something else, but that it doesn’t apply to the President, oh hell no. There was nobody in the Senate or House who questioned if Section 3 applied to the President during the 39th Congress. It did and saying it doesn’t is some revisionist bullshit.
Now they do mention “Rucho v. Common Cause” in the argument. In this they’re trying to portray that “is someone disqualified” as a political question rather a legal one. Courts aren’t allowed to weigh in on political questions.
They also mention roles of Congress via the 20th Amendment, Article II, and section 5 of the 14th Amendment. And via these they indicate that it’s implied that Congress is the one who disqualifies. However, they fail to mention the 10th Amendment where if the Constitution is silent on the matter and Congress has passed no law, then the law falls onto the States and the people thereafter. So the question that can be raised is Colorado’s 10th Amendment right superseded by this “implied” Congressional consent?
It would give the SCOTUS a get out of jail free card by basically saying “well it’s not up to SCOTUS, it’s up to Congress” and calling it done. However, it would weaken one of their favorite things, State’s Rights. Because the ability to determine disqualification on things like citizenship and age are very clearly at the State level, that’s even a question. So it would make things this weird thing where if it’s age or natural born status that’s the States but someone with intent to hand the US over to Russia, nope that’s Congress.
And above all else, why the fuck would we have an electoral college if some of the biggest issues on qualification are up to the whims of Congress? Like that does even make sense. But I think the electoral college should go away anyway, but that’s a me thing.
At any point. There’s wiggle room for SCOTUS to massively disappoint yet again! But on the question of does this apply to the President or not. HELL FUCKING YES IT DOES. Every record we have points to that conclusion. If Colorado’s Supreme Court can err, so can the court that Trump is relying on to be correct on this issue.
They also mention roles of Congress via the 20th Amendment, Article II, and section 5 of the 14th Amendment. And via these they indicate that it’s implied that Congress is the one who disqualifies.
With regard to the 14th Amendment Section Three, a person who has sworn an oath, and then engages in insurrection, is disqualified. Congress is given the power to “remove such disability;” this is wholly different from Congress being “the one who disqualifies.”
This still leaves SCOTUS a perfect out: read the law, apply the law. SCOTUS should rule that Trump meets the characterization for someone disqualified from the ballot via 14S3, and that States, having the sole responsibility for operating elections, should disqualify him from their ballots - while making it very clear that this disability can be removed by a two-thirds vote from each House of Congress.
SCOTUS does not want to be responsible for disqualifying Trump; they don’t have to be. In actual fact, he has disqualified himself, through the actions he took of his own free will. SCOTUS also does not want to be the last word on the subject; they don’t have to be. Congress, and their vote (or lack thereof), would be the last word on the subject.
With regard to the 14th Amendment Section Three, a person who has sworn an oath, and then engages in insurrection, is disqualified. Congress is given the power to “remove such disability;” this is wholly different from Congress being “the one who disqualifies.”
I couldn’t agree more here. The notion that the one that removes the disability indicates that someone added it. Being silent on the who isn’t an oversight by those who carefully framed the 14th. There’s a realization outright that calling out traitors and ensuring that they cannot attempt rebellion was a role for anyone who swore to uphold the Constitution. To vest the power in a single branch is just inviting those seeking a rebellion to overtake that branch and call it mission complete.
My favorite part of the word salad that is their argument is that the Supreme Court of Colorado erred but a lower District Court that found that Trump took a different oath was correct.
Because we literally have the minutes of the discussion when the 39th Congress discussed the 14th Amendment and indicated that Section 3 would “obviously apply to the President” and that the explicit mentions in Section 3 were to alleviate confusion.
— Sen. Reverdy Johnson (D-MD)
— Sen. Lot Morrill (R-MA)
Senator Morrill shut down outright the notion that section three could ever be considered as “not applying to the President”. That’s how obvious it was to the people who wrote the Amendment that the entire point was that “we had a civil war, but just because we won did not mean the Confederates nor their rebellion would cease to exist”.
More to the point.
— Sen. Peter G. Van Winkle (R-WV)
So let’s be entirely clear here. Section 3 absolutely applies to the President and it absolutely applies to ANY insurrection. There are zero other ways to read this. We literally have the minutes of the discussion at that time. This isn’t like we don’t know what they intended, they were very clear that future people would try this shit and they absolutely wanted that eventuality covered. And Congressional record is acceptable evidence into the Supreme Court. If SCOTUS today ignores this record, I mean fuck, there’s not a slicing it any other way than they’re attempting to play favorites.
And on that, I highly doubt they’ll buy this argument that Section 3 doesn’t apply. Now they may find something else, but that it doesn’t apply to the President, oh hell no. There was nobody in the Senate or House who questioned if Section 3 applied to the President during the 39th Congress. It did and saying it doesn’t is some revisionist bullshit.
Now they do mention “Rucho v. Common Cause” in the argument. In this they’re trying to portray that “is someone disqualified” as a political question rather a legal one. Courts aren’t allowed to weigh in on political questions.
They also mention roles of Congress via the 20th Amendment, Article II, and section 5 of the 14th Amendment. And via these they indicate that it’s implied that Congress is the one who disqualifies. However, they fail to mention the 10th Amendment where if the Constitution is silent on the matter and Congress has passed no law, then the law falls onto the States and the people thereafter. So the question that can be raised is Colorado’s 10th Amendment right superseded by this “implied” Congressional consent?
It would give the SCOTUS a get out of jail free card by basically saying “well it’s not up to SCOTUS, it’s up to Congress” and calling it done. However, it would weaken one of their favorite things, State’s Rights. Because the ability to determine disqualification on things like citizenship and age are very clearly at the State level, that’s even a question. So it would make things this weird thing where if it’s age or natural born status that’s the States but someone with intent to hand the US over to Russia, nope that’s Congress.
And above all else, why the fuck would we have an electoral college if some of the biggest issues on qualification are up to the whims of Congress? Like that does even make sense. But I think the electoral college should go away anyway, but that’s a me thing.
At any point. There’s wiggle room for SCOTUS to massively disappoint yet again! But on the question of does this apply to the President or not. HELL FUCKING YES IT DOES. Every record we have points to that conclusion. If Colorado’s Supreme Court can err, so can the court that Trump is relying on to be correct on this issue.
With regard to the 14th Amendment Section Three, a person who has sworn an oath, and then engages in insurrection, is disqualified. Congress is given the power to “remove such disability;” this is wholly different from Congress being “the one who disqualifies.”
This still leaves SCOTUS a perfect out: read the law, apply the law. SCOTUS should rule that Trump meets the characterization for someone disqualified from the ballot via 14S3, and that States, having the sole responsibility for operating elections, should disqualify him from their ballots - while making it very clear that this disability can be removed by a two-thirds vote from each House of Congress.
SCOTUS does not want to be responsible for disqualifying Trump; they don’t have to be. In actual fact, he has disqualified himself, through the actions he took of his own free will. SCOTUS also does not want to be the last word on the subject; they don’t have to be. Congress, and their vote (or lack thereof), would be the last word on the subject.
I couldn’t agree more here. The notion that the one that removes the disability indicates that someone added it. Being silent on the who isn’t an oversight by those who carefully framed the 14th. There’s a realization outright that calling out traitors and ensuring that they cannot attempt rebellion was a role for anyone who swore to uphold the Constitution. To vest the power in a single branch is just inviting those seeking a rebellion to overtake that branch and call it mission complete.
SCOTUS has an even better out: they have appellate jurisdiction on this issue, not original jurisdiction. They can decline to hear the case.