I know we pretty much all hated spez for all the shit he pulled, but a few weeks ago the tone towards reddit itself around here was more neutral. People liked it here on Lemmy a lot better, but people weren’t hating on the old place so much.
Recently I’m seeing this huuuuuuuge surge of just pure fucking hatred leveled at the site itself. Anyone else notice this or is it just me?
I mean, I was there because I thought it was alright. I hated spez for fucking it up and completely screwing his communities over. But I never hated reddit itself, and I still don’t. Otherwise I would’ve left a lot sooner.
Do you personally hate reddit? If so, why?
We’re moving through the stages of grief. Many of us seem to be on “anger”.
Ohhhhhhhhh… you might be right. That’s an interesting thought, thank you.
💯i was in strong anger last week.
That tends to happen when a site you frequent suddenly decides a portion of its users will have to visit with the worst experience possible or leave.
Additionally, false accusations and actions taking by Steve and Reddit admins only poked the wasp hive even more.
I think it also ties into a larger portion of people being fed up with corporate social media and corporations in general. All the ads, tracking, and shareholder profit driving decisions instead of what makes a product “good”.
I loved Reddit until I realized they were just going to do whatever they wanted and the community, apart from creating free content and work, didn’t matter. But the lying about discussions with the app creator was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Suddenly they weren’t just a bully, but they were a proven lying, dishonest bully. Everything that they say going forward will be suspect, so I decided to walk away. Who knows what they’re doing with my data/content. I know what they’re telling me. I don’t know what’s true.
I deleted most of my posts from my nearly 14-year history except for a handful that I think need to stay up and a couple of others that I’m testing something on. I log in every once in a while to leave any groups that might have unlocked since I was last there and delete those posts too.
I don’t hate them. But they’ve lost my trust, and I don’t see any way to regain it.
There could have been other, better solutions. The biggest problem right now is that the only tool in Steve Huffman’s toolbox is a hammer.
More like a bent tire iron he borrowed from Elon. A hammer would be quick and efficient at least, two things which he is not.
Reddit used to be a lawless land that didn’t care about comedy accounts or multiple accounts or shit posts. No one ever got banned. No one ever got censored. It was fun. People didn’t take it that seriously.
The last few years however it’s been turning into basically any other social media site. Politics everywhere, censorship galore and bans handed out willy nilly based on nothing more than ideologies and opinions, mods and admins tightly controlling narratives of threads and entire subs, and just slowly eroding what made it a fun site to visit. Certain political ideologies have taken over and anything outside of those opinions is insta-banned. Going to Reveddit or uneddit (i think thats the name of the second one) and looking at any “hot topic” thread was eye opening - mods and admins removing dozens/hundreds of completely harmless comments because they didn’t like the opinion that was shared, leaving no trace that the comments even existed, giving the perception that there wasn’t any censoring going on.
I don’t hate reddit. I deleted my 12+ year old account and left because it isn’t the site I liked, and an alternative now exists in Lemmy. I think Reddit is a shitty site now that is basically a highly censored astroturfed political site, but I don’t care that I’m no longer using it.
People on here are hating reddit more now because more and more people are coming here from reddit because of the shitty things reddit has been doing.
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I’m honestly missing them. Would you mind pointing out a couple?
Going on about how “censored” everything is and how “certain political ideologies” are the only opinions allowed and anything else is “insta-banned” reeks of right wing extremism (hence, dogwhistles). I know I’m sticking my neck out to say so but given nobody has yet provided a single receipt/anecdote to back up their claims I find myself super skeptical at the idea that they’re presenting even a marginally balanced version of the truth right now. There’s a reason “certain political ideologies” (ie. the “eradicate trans ideology” and “destroy wokeism” crowd) are not accepted in decent online circles. There’s no room for that kind of hate, and I’ve never met someone on that side of things willing to hold an honest conversation on it. They just want a platform to be hateful.
This strategy reminds me of right-wingers I’ve dealt with in the past who complained about being banned from Twitter for ‘simply saying “learn to code”’. If you understand the context, the harassment, kicking someone when they’re down, the dogpile they contributed to, the absolute hate campaign their seemingly innocuous (piece of a) comment contributed to, there’s completely sensible reasons why a ban like that took place. But I know the playbook; these guys thrive in the darkness. The moment I start prodding into the nuances, they pretend they were trolling the whole time and basically ragequit. If they control the messaging then they can make themselves sound reasonable by tearing away context and presenting a whitewashed and often unrealistic version of what happened.
I could be wrong; for all I know this guy’s talking about truly god-awful subs like r/TrueRateMyFace (I forget what the name was and it doesn’t deserve to be remembered, as the mods explicitly support men posting their exes on there and actively ban commenters who “overrate” the scores they give out, while pretending they’re working with an objective measure of true beauty) but I haven’t experienced this egregious political de-platforming they’re talking about and it’s telling that they didn’t go into any level of specifics except to keep harping on the “censorship” point. Not every opinion or argument deserves a platform.
… damnit, you’re right. That slipped by me last night, thanks for pointing it out.
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Appreciate you taking the time to explain. That’s not really the vibe I caught, but I could be projecting.
I, too, am upset at how echo chambery reddit became, and the knee-jerk censorship the mods displayed. I had an account permanently and immediately banned from politics for “hate speech” because I said that DINOs Kirsten Sinema and Joe Manchin were date rapists for bending the Democratic party over against its will after taking them out to a nice dinner. Over the next few weeks, I was silently banned from about a dozen other subs.
Turns out that the person behind it all was the same “powermod” who threw a colossal tantrum after being banned herself just a couple of weeks ago.
I disagree with you about globally deplatforming “the bad guys,” because I don’t get to choose who they are, and one day - like above - that “bad guy” could end up being you.
Don’t like it, or can’t deal with it? Block them.
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if you get banned from enough subs you get that account suspended. try to come back as an alt and get banned again, your get ip banned from the site.
powermods would abuse their position as mods of multiple subs to silence and harass people they didn’t like or agree with. I myself was a victim of this.
it doesn’t matter if reddit is woke, what matters is the behavior. doesn’t matter if the powermod in question is left or right leaning, they still basically have the power to ban someone from the entire site, merely because they don’t like your politics, or worse, one comment you made on one sub.
even if that comment is bannable, doesn’t mean you should be banned from unrelated subs, let alone the site. it’s also double ridiculous when you are a power user or other significant person in the sub who has helped build the community and some power mod decides you’re a threat to them.
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Everything is a “dog whistle” when you don’t understand what a dog whistle is but hear people use it and want to use it yourself.
Dog whistle literally just means coded language that an ordinary observer might not notice, but can be used to subtly identify other like-minded individuals.
Not all dog whistles are necessarily bad (depending on perspective). I’m an ex-mormon, and one dog whistle is a tapir. Without more information, it is too subtle to really know for certain whether I just like tapirs, or that I’m actually ex-mormon. But eventually, two ex-mormons might see enough signals to finally confide in one another.
A lot of the language you used is innocuous enough, and I didn’t feel like it was at the level @hoodatninja claimed, but it definitely had a “Reddit was becoming too woke” vibe to it, without actually coming out and outright saying it, aka, a dog whistle.
When you’re looking for dog whistles because you want to try and dismiss someone’s point/opinion you tend to find them everywhere. Not because they’re actually there, but because everything looks like one when you’re of that mindset.
Reddit became too political. I literally said that. Lots of it is right wing, but vastly more of it is left wing. That’s not controversial to say. Their rules and enforcement literally state left wing talking points.
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I’m not saying anything about being “too woke”, no. I’m saying it’s too political now, being run by mods and admin that push their political agendas and censor and ban everyone they disagree with. It goes both ways, “far left” and “far right”. It just so happens though that the admins have made the site rules more “far left” meaning unless you play along with their talking points and ideologies you get banned.
Watch out so you don’t cut yourself on all that edge.
I suppose that would lead to a lot of associations. Personally I blame all of that on the people that actually did it though, not just reddit as a whole, which I just view as a successful website. The actual real life people who did those things and made those decisions are the ones that deserve the real condemnation.
And the actual real life people who run reddit encouraged them, or ousted them for actual real life people who would do it.
The shitty people who enable shitty policy are shitty, but I try to focus on the fact that they’re just enablers.
But it’s those enablers fault. They have names. Blaming just “reddit” lets them off the hook too easy. We should use their names to attack them, instead of the faceless, cold business they are just milking for cash. The business is the tool. The person using it is the dirtbag.
I think you’re misunderstanding me.
The mods and admins are willing stooges who enabled those I blame: Steve Huffman, and the companies that helped him neuter, remove, or paper over the parts of reddit that users built - transforming it into the shitheap they’re trying to parcel out to the market in an IPO.
The blame lies at the top of any shitheap. Always.
(But I have no love for stooges except for the original three.)
Ah, yes I did misunderstand. I get it and I largely agree.
But it’s those enablers fault. They have names.
They don’t - they’re all just anonymous admins and mods.
True, but the problem is that the real life people that did those things are all anonymous admins and mods that face no repercussions and give you no way to appeal or reverse anything. They’re the ones controlling the site and ruining it, much like how lots of people now think that Elon Musk is ruining twitter. Is it twitters fault or musks fault? They’re one and the same.
No, they’re not all anonymous. You can look them up. I mean, low-level employees are just doing what their boss tells them. But the boss–the person making the decisions–that guy’s got a name. A lot of the upper level management of the company are known publicly.
The little guys are anonymous, the mods especially, but not the people that made the biggest decisions. If we blame Musk, we should certainly blame spez. Who you can find the real name of with a single google search.
Admin accounts are fully anonymous. Mod accounts are anonymous. Almost all mod messages are sent from a modmail account, so you don’t even know which anonymous mod took action.
It’s not just spez who is the problem, it’s the admins too.
The misc grunts, sure. But they’re just following their instructions. You can follow it up the corporate ladder to find the guy who has the real responsibility for the whole culture and strategy that everyone is following.
The guy in charge picks the playbook his company uses, so to speak.
It’s hard knowing that your favourite small subs are a ticking time bomb; once they get too large they tend to be too strictly controlled and the content quality drops.
People act like strict moderation/“control“ is universally bad, yet AskHistorians is often held up as one of the best subs ever created. Do you know what makes that possible? Do you know what would happen if they relaxed the rules?
That example is an obvious exception.
Most subs are hobbyist or the like and far too often I see ‘locked because ya’ll can’t behave’ in the last few years. There’s an upvote/downvote system for a reason; not everything needs to be babied and pruned to what the mods want. Might be one of the few good things about the removal of API because they can’t mass delete comments anymore, killing the actual discussion.
there’s an upvote/downvote system for a reason
Oh come now you aren’t so naive as to think that system actually works as intended or anywhere near as good as it needs to be to leaned on. Would you trust a community vote that used upvotes/downvotes?
not everything needs to be babied and pruned to what the mods want.
What the community wants. And no not everything, but frankly some people do act like babies and need to be handled as such. I personally had no tolerance for trolling. The sub I modded did not want that crap at all. Hence why they kept supporting our rules and every vote we held to change things ended with “this works well.”
People think they want a “true democracy” (doesn’t exist with the tools we have) and “total free speech” on forums but let me tell you you absolutely do not. Go ask Voat how that turned out.
We’ll keep going in circles because we have our own preferences.
You seriously want reddit’s upvote/downvote system as the primary way of doing things?
I really miss the ‘fun’ part
There used to be expat circles where it was a great for expats just to vent, China, Japan Korea and Thailand. Making fun of Redditor who are absolutely naive about a country and found ‘love’ on wechat, to archetypes, making fun naive locals, to self deprecating humour like violently shitting yourself from food poisoning or how squat toilets are racist against caucasian-chinese because white people can’t squat to shit. Then I guess some Asian Americans do not understand the country well enough to get the context and then one day it’s all gone.
2balkan4u is a great example of this, just users from the Balkans bantering then admins saw this as a ‘hate’ subreddit and just gone, people knew it banter and a gross exaggeration of beliefs and perceptions about other countries which has been a ongoing thing for last 1000 years. Yet Reddit admins put a stop to that, banned the entire subreddit. For a website that preaches tolerance, people outside of American culture do not see black and white in race, sexuality or politics yet be completely ignorant to the point of intolerance.
Reddit is now seething and hatred.
100% this.
Everyone is just looking to be outraged these days. They want to find something to complain about so they can get it banned so they can feel good about themselves.
my entire history of reddit was joining a small cool sub about a niche topic i liked. learning more and more and watching it grow. then watch it become flooded with low quality content by more and more people who were just there to brag and ask stupid questions and troll. then the good users would leave and the mod would ban anyone who disagreed with whatever populist bullshit was being pushed and pointed out viral marketing and steal advertising accounts. that or the mods were uptight nazis who basically banned anyone or anything outside of what they posted. or the pathetic users who would stalk and harass and insult you because you said something they dind’t like.
i just wanted a place where i could enjoy things and learn things and be free of peopel trolling for attention and validation for their fragile egos. pretty much all hobby subs become ‘look at this very expensive thing i purchased’. or if they were artistic it was ‘good vibes only’. on top of all the bullshitting and lying and karma farming.
reddit was best when it was basically link aggregator with comments. as soon as people were able to post images/videos and were able to ban anyone they disagreed with, it basically devolved into a kindergarten level show and tell hugbox with the mods being kindergarten teachers telling us anything other than ‘being nice’ meant you were no longer allowed to participate.
Exactly. Reddit used to be fun. anarcho communists and hardcore libertarians could trash talk, debate, and banter. people on the site were just fun weirdos. nothing was personal, very little was seriously political.
then everything became serious business, and no more fun was allowed and mods became growth-grubbing ban-happy nutcases who only allowed ‘correct’ opinions, and the site became useless as both a source of entertainment and education because it became about perpetuating the very serious bullshit bubble of your sub at all costs.
i have been mostly having the same opinions for a decade on reddit. the past couple of years my pragmatic thoughts are now a bannable offensive because they aren’t so far-left or far-right nonsense.
As many mistakes as Reddit has made, I have no desire to return to the time when we had FPH, “ham planet,” and c—ntown. I definitely have no desire to see creepshots or jailbait return. I think your rose tinted glasses are a little too thick, my friend. It was not all sunshine and rainbows lol
I loved Reddit, but after the API shenanigans and the doubling down I went sour… and then I read the latest TOS…
You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
i.e. whatever you post WE own forever and we never have to credit you. It’s so horrifyingly immoral.
I bet they’re angling to sell data for AI training.
Didn’t they straight up say that at one point? And I don’t begrudge that: it makes sense. Potentially the next big wave of hotness is being trained on existing content like Reddit. They are potentially profiting off Reddit. It’s fair that Reddit should get a cut of that.
But there has to be a better way than to go through swinging a hammer side to side and not caring who you bludgeon
That’s a pretty standard TOS clause for any website that hosts user content these days.
Stack exchange is CC licensed, and they host a lot of user content.
I’ve not seen this “waive moral rights or attribution” in any other site. It’s not in Twitter’s, it’s not in Facebook, I don’t think it’s even legal in a lot of jurisdictions (moral rights cannot easily be contracted away).
I’m not sure what that’s even suppose to mean
The preserving of the integrity of the work allows the author to object to alteration, distortion, or mutilation of the work that is “prejudicial to the author’s honor or reputation”
i.e. under the new TOS Reddit can edit your post to say that you eat dead puppies
Which ones?
I remember being introduced to reddit years ago. It was still new and unknown, there was in-jokes and cringey bacon narwhal shit I don’t even quite remember. It was fun, it was cringe, it wasn’t doomscrolling it was genuine engagement and I really enjoyed it.
Then the longer I spent on it the more hostile it became. Almost every comment thread is full of contrarians looking to argue with you just to get more upvotes and
edit: omg thx 4 awards!!11!bullshit, bots “correcting” people’s spelling and telling you how many consonants are in reverse alphabetical order in your username omg so cute! it just became regular, boring old social media.Then the leadership bullshit kept just getting worse and worse and worse, every time you hear anything about what reddit (as a company) does it’s just more and more hostile to users. The API/app changes and the way it was handled was the last straw. Users don’t hate reddit, reddit hates it’s users, the company has shown nothing but contempt for the users and unpaid moderators for years and I’m just sick of it and that long term animosity coupled with the last set of changes? Yeah, fuck reddit.
I’ve never understood why people hate other people editing their posts with thank yous. What was the big problem with that?
The
edit: omg thank you for awards/upvotescomments just feel like such a self-congratulatory circlejerk, as if the point of the post was to “win” at reddit by getting the most points. The “meta” around reddit itself became less of a discussion and more a game to play to get the most points.To be clear, I don’t directly hate the “thank you” post edits, I dislike that they’re a symptom of the “meta” of reddit becoming less around the links it aggregates and more around itself, maybe?
I always interpreted it more as surprise than anything else. The vast majority of the content you make, over 99%, gets minimal reaction. So when something blows up, it’s very surprising and unusual. Shocking, even.
These people responding to that feeling in some way is natural.
Mine mostly comes from how they treated Christian, the developer of the Apollo app. Ridiculous.
Also remember their behavior towards Aaron Swartz
Reddit can’t be divorced from the leadership. If you hate the direction leadership is taking Reddit, how can you still like Reddit itself? What is it apart from that?
This argument makes more sense to me with Lemmy. Yes, if you hate the direction one instance admin is taking their Lemmy instance, it doesn’t make sense to hate Lemmy as a whole… but Reddit has only one “instance,” so if you hate the “admin,” you hate Reddit.
Yeah, I started picking up on this. I draw a clear distinction between people that make decisions, and the tools they use to bring those decisions to fruition. To me, reddit is an inanimate thing, and hating it is no different than hating a rock or tree. I do understand now that I am not necessarily normal in this, though.
Thanks for the response.
I hated it, I only just barely put up with the toxic community so I could still visit my favorite subs only (I used apollo so I could ignore the garbage that’d be recommended to us constantly). I used the app-pocalypse as an excuse to leave. Now I only lurk there for the ooh-la-la subs, but as more and more creators there have lately been moving to lemmynsfw I might not even need those subs for much longer.
Hello, Apollo user. Have you tried wefef.app?
Yes, it’s great. I’d also recommend Memmy since it shows downvotes and upvotes separately instead of net score (which lemmy does, idk about the other reddit-like federated sites) to discourage circlejerking
Having been there since the pre-Digg days, I simply hate what they’re doing with the place. It hurts to see something you’ve enjoyed and contributed to over the past 20 years become the antithesis of the free and open internet it once represented. Every change they made to the site since they tried to migrate off the old.reddit.com interface has been a negative one for the users. The sudden acceleration of those kind of changes has made the site both unreadable (content is beyond stale now) and worthless to participate in.
I think for me, this disappointment turned to real visceral antipathy when I saw this page - it looks like something the CCP would design for kindergartners. It’s not a place I want to be a part of at all, and I don’t want my past contributions to fuel it.
That is also very helpful, thank you. I can see that pissing people off.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that they repeat the word “community” like every fourth word all the way through that insipid swill. It’s definitely not a pathetically transparent attempt to retroactively stake a claim on the term that lemmy - the Reddit to their Digg - uses for its subforums.
People on reddit have been referring to the people in their subs as a “community” forever. It’s definitely not that deep. They don’t even know or care what Lemmy names anything.
Like I said, I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that they repeat the word “community” at least 30 times on that page.
Oh, and this bit too, that I just noticed when I was counting "commumity"s:
Communities are the lifeblood of the Internet. But on today’s Internet, they are not in charge of their own destiny. Instead, they are controlled by the large platforms that hold all the power online. It is time for a change.
Community Points are the first step towards a different future for online communities.
That’s definitely just a coincidence and has nothing at all to do with trying to compete against the fediverse, which they definitely don’t even pay any attention to.
Yup.
I just told you why they use the word community though? A community is a group of people in the same place. Subreddits have been referred to by the people in them as a community for years. People on Discord talk about their “community” on their servers. People on Xbox Live are a “community”.
It literally has nothing to do with Lemmy. Reddit aren’t threatened by Lemmy. Look how the protests went - they all flickered out and died with a whimper. Reddit is business as usual. Pretty much every sub is back to normal as if nothing ever happened because nothing basically did happen.
Pretty much every sub is not even close to back to normal. I still check in from time to time over there. It’s very noticeable that a particular segment of the popular subs is now completely gone.
The video game and shitpost subs. Those are unchanged. The rest is very different.
Pretty sure the only people still talking about Reddit are the really passionate people that hate or love it. I am neutral and therefore stopped talking about it.
Exactly the same boat. Just trying to make Lemmy work now.
We’re still discussing Reddit? That’s so 2.5 weeks old 😝 moved here because of spaz’ rule, not because I hate Reddit. It was a fun time which will be remembered.
It’s time to hate the looming threat of the colossus that meta now setting eyes on gobbling up the guppies. It makes reddit stuff look so trivial in comparison.
Almost the same thing happened on Reddit when everyone migrated from Digg. It’s so similar, in fact, that I wonder if maybe this isn’t a normal thing.
I suspect it’s more users migrating over to here. I am coming here more than on Reddit now because of Reddits actions. Just trying to get used to Lemmy. The vibes are friendlier here, that’s for sure. I imagine that won’t last once even more Redditors come this way.
I never used Digg, so I never got to see. That makes sense that it might be a pattern of some sort though.
Hate is a strong word, but I don’t like the power that comes with an extremely centralized internet. I also don’t like the ad driven internet. So Reddit as a website is no good in my opinion.
I picked it intentionally, hoping some people feeling some actual powerful emotions might try to explain why. Regardless of what I think of it intellectually, I don’t experience strong emotions towards it. I don’t miss it, I don’t hate it, my emotions towards it are very neutral.
I’m curious about others though. Emotionally, not intellectually.
