I’ve been trying to find a good Marxist instance, but Lemmygrad and Hexbear are widely hated. Why is that? Are there any good leftist instances?

  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Lemmygrad and Hexbear aren’t “leftist” in the confused sense that Americans usually mean “leftist.” They’re actually leftist in the original sense, meaning that they want to abolish private ownership of the means of production. To the extent they’re “widely hated,” it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      More often than not, when Americans say leftist they really mean left-liberalism a la Bernie Sanders, which is really center-left at most, and not actually leftist in the original sense, a sense which Americans have forgotten thanks to two Red Scares and the first Cold War.

      • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        True, but leninists are not leftist in any significant sense either. They are more authoritarian/ totalitarian than they are left or right.

        • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Totalitarian is an invented term, and every single government and governance structure is “authoritarian” by definition. These words mean hubris, and are dogwhistles for anti-communists.

          If Leninists are not leftists according to you, you might as well start to claim Hitler was not a fascist, and Bush, Obama, Clinton, Churchill were all great homies.

          • wick@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Nah, I don’t think I will compromise. Hitler was a totalitarian dictator, and Lenin horseshoed himself all the way around to become the same. None of their American contemporaries then or since are comparable. Waving your hand and saying everything is authoritarian ignores how many people they both killed to maintain that authority, the vast majority being working class. Leninists are not leftists, they are just bloodthirsty pigs.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      That’s not the part people have an issue with, the part where their users deny genocides, call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis, end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks, that’s what people have an issue with.

      • deur@feddit.nl
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        1 year ago

        Holy shit you got them to brigade your comment. They might as well be bots, I think Chat GPT’s “intelligence” outpaces them.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          As is tradition! What’s funny is that they’re supposed to be defederated from my instance so I don’t know why they even see my comments… Their admin even called my instance “sh.itsfullof.nazis” in their defederation message because they were angry that they were confronted to people who disagreed with them when they brigaded our administration communities…

        • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          They have a community dedicated to organizing brigades so it’s no surprise that they are brigading their comment

          [email protected]

          The rules in the side bar are very telling

          Of course the last time I mentioned it’s existence with one of my alts I got a 2 week sitewide-ban so this comment probably won’t last long

          Edit: Spleling

      • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 year ago

        Extremely accurate

        I literally netted a 2 week sitewide-ban on one of my alts in this thread for a softer worded take than this

      • Garfield@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves

        anyone complaining about “reverse racism” or “anti white racism” is a complete joke. like boo fucking hoo, someone called you a cracker on the internet, get over it.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Racism has a definition that’s fairly easy to understand and yes people of all colors can be victims and even people of the same skin colour can be racists against one another because racism isn’t necessarily about the color of your skin, it can be about your ethnicity.

          Racism:

          prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

          Ethnicity:

          the quality or fact of belonging to a population group or subgroup made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.

          If you had taken a crowd of anonymous Germans all dressed the same in 1935, how would you have told who was a Jew and who wasn’t? You wouldn’t have been able to because they were all just white people.

          What do you call it when 100 years ago in a first world white country the population that speaks one official language has an infant mortality rate comparable to that of colonial Africa while the population that speaks the other official language and lives in the same cities has an infant mortality rate comparable to any other first world nation?

          Was the Rwanda genocide not racism because it was two groups with the same skin colour? What about what happened in Yugoslavia?

          My white friend who went to China to study had to sit through multiple explanations by many Chinese student of the levels of intelligence being affected by skin colour and ethnicity and guess what, whites weren’t at the top! “All white people are dumber than Indians who are dumber than Koreans who are dumber than Chinese.” Are you telling me that isn’t racism against white people (and anyone that isn’t Chinese)? Because I sure would hope someone would call me a racist if I was saying the same thing about people of another skin colour or ethnicity!

          • TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Racism against white people would be a problem if white people were not the perpetrators of racism against the entire world for centuries, whilst looting and genociding and dehumanising other races. Except the fact that they have and do it in unison and cheerfully, in the name of “white man’s burden” bullshit. And people like you defend it and carry water for them.

            You know which country “inspired” and taught racial segregation policies to Hitler? USA. The country that defected Europeans colonised by genociding Native American indigenous people. I swear this whole shit has to be some kind of grand project, because Albert Pike (most famous Freemason leader) spoke of 3 world wars that West invents, 2 of which have been exactly invented the way he described, and he uses terms like Nazism, a term or ideology which did not even exist in 1891.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m581aW5AH4M

            The game is over for Anglos.

            • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              So you’re saying that what the Jews were victim of during WW2 wasn’t racism? Because they certainly were white!

              How about the Irish? The deportation of Acadians? French Canadians seeing their language becoming illegal to teach in Manitoba? The Yugoslav wars?

              By your logic it’s also impossible to be racist towards Chinese and Japanese because man, let me tell you, they can be racist as fuck towards everyone else and they were the ones in power on their side of the world for centuries!

              Racism has a definition and it’s a bad thing no matter who the victim is.

                • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  It’s funny how it’s always the same whenever you’re confronted to arguments. You just insult the other party and leave the scene like you were a hero.

                  Also very funny you should call me a cracker when you don’t know what’s my origin, you just assume I’m white because you would be unable to accept that someone not white could realize that racism goes all ways.

        • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          That isn’t what they are talking about, hopefully. But if it is, I agree, a hearty “lol” is in order.

          • Garfield@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            they replied confirming to me that what they were complaining about was in fact racism against white people, given that it seems to be a pretty common bit on lemmygrad to call people crackers and compare them to that kid who went onto fox news to complain about his face being photoshopped onto a picture of a ritz cracker by left wing students at his university that seems to be what they were complaining about

            edit: i found a picture of the guy

      • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        That’s a liberal with no framework. No one denies genocides (pro-tip just because the western media says it’s a genocide doesn’t make it a genocide.) Being so anti-racist you are the real racist is the Liberal Democratic party who elected a hard-core segregationist as president, not a Marxist Leninist. No one except people like you give a fuck about personal attacks. lol.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        The “Uyghur genocide” is bullshit Atlanticist propaganda, and English-language Wikipedia is basically NATOpedia in its slant on the topic, so yes we will deny it. It’s a product of the new Cold War propaganda campaign against China.

        • redballooon@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Here are some properties of any conspiracy theory worth it’s name:

          • Closed Ideological Systems: They provide an all-encompassing explanation for various events or states, with everything fitting into their worldview.
          • Immunity to Facts: Any contrary evidence is dismissed as false or considered part of the conspiracy.
          • Enemy Construction: They tend to draw a clear line between “us” (those who “know the truth”) and “them” (the supposed conspirators).
          • Adaptability: Conspiracy narratives can change and incorporate new “evidence” or events to maintain their credibility.

          It matches for QAnon and the MAGA crowd as well as the lemmygrad crowd.

        • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I get why people would believe it like a decade ago when the facts were still kind of up in the air, but now even west media is like “yeaaah we looked into it and all of it is complete and utter bullshit” and yet you still have people confidently going on like it’s still a thing.

          Eventually you have to come to the grips with the fact that the only reason you believe in the Uyghur genocide is because you’re racist.

    • Big P@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      Any politically focused space on the Internet, left or right, is a cesspool of toxic lies and hatred of anyone outside their sphere