• raven [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          I disagree with that. I never saw what I understood as a bad faith argument. It bordered on some things that might sound like reactionary points but I think it was just a little confused, maybe had a hard time explaining things on account of being neurodivergent and perhaps didn’t fully understand them in the first place. You just had to get deeeeeeep in the weeds with it to try to figure out what the fuck it was talking about. There were a lot of claims that things are a certain way, and then that thing being referenced out of context later elsewhere and you had to refer back to the whole history of the user to figure out what was going on. Maybe it needed a user to ride along and translate for it lol

          Edit: Since I was regrettably unclear below You can prefer any pronouns for any reason and that is valid. It is the responsibility of the speaker to make an effort to respect those pronouns

                  • combat_brandonism [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    I think what was meant was “they is not ideal, but until you know better it will suffice.”

                    That doesn’t make it better holy shit. For some of us, they is ideal. That’s the point.

                  • citrussy_capybara [ze/hir]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    It responded here: https://lemm.ee/post/12418057

                    Here’s the nuance: If you call someone who uses they/them they/them, then you are REFERRING to them correctly, but you’re not GENDERING them correctly, because you aren’t gendering them at all. You’re referring to them neutrally, which is the correct way to refer to someone who wants to be referred to neutrally.

                    I sympathise and agree with much of what you are saying.
                    “they is not ideal, but until you know better it will suffice.” might be the intended message.

                    If the person is replying in good faith and actually trying to both to understand and be understood. And that would include explicitly stating somewhere that it acknowledges that being pedantic about de-gendering vs misgendering is not constructive.

                    Paraphrasing, the events went along these lines.

                    • user: TERFs use they/them pronouns for people who they damn well know use different pronouns as a way to de-gender people and as a slight against trans people
                    • dronerights: actually, they/them is right anyways because it doesn’t do anything with gender, so the TERFs aren’t doing anything wrong, they are using language correctly

                    Descriptivism vs Prescriptivism. Its argument is that prescriptivism and technical definition is the only correct interpretation of they/them pronouns. Compare ‘they banned me for saying gender neutral pronouns exist’ with, for instance, JKKK Rowling claiming to be canceled for saying gender exists. Its a false argument. Descriptively, they/them is not used neutrally, and is used to hurt people, therefore they/them can be gendered. TERFs use they/them as a stand-in for misgendering, therefore it is misgendering. They/them means she/her for people who use he/him, and vice versa. They/them means ‘I refuse to use your made up neopronouns’. The gender neutral definition isn’t the only one, and dronerights insisting upon the gender neutrality in all circumstances is incorrect.

                    The pedantic insistence that the context shouldn’t matter because they/them is technically correct, or should be correct, is where the transphobia lies.

                    And until I see any acknowledgement by dronerights of this, instead of constantly doubling down on it, I do not see a good faith argument.

                    Instead we have this. The user misrepresenting events. Misrepresentation is bad faith. If it said it was being a pedantic jerk and clarified, that would go a long way to earning this generous interpretation of its position that you want to give it. It is trying to be right and win an internet argument at any cost and constantly starts fights between users and instances (also bad faith actions).

    • RyanGosling [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      The mod log should be pinned to the front page. And the post should be titled: “If you’re from another instance trying to find proof that your users were mistreated by evil tankies, please search their username in this log.”