Almost 70% of the EU is on board with helping Ukraine. Just like every Nationalist movements, it’s always around 30% of assholes who want to destroy everything because they are morons.
Yeah, well, US support was astronomical and bipartisan. We weren’t exactly fond of Russia. And now a good chunk of the country is nodding their heads when Zelensky is called a “comedian clown” and assert the war is Ukraine’s fault.
I’m just saying, social media and propaganda is powerful, and the EU has not learned from US (or Russia) if they are taking Ukraine support for granted, especially if things escalate.
Not disputing that. EU leaders need to get their heads out of their asses fast and ban Twitter, regulate the fuck out of Meta, and stop thinking like it’s 2010 or some shit. War is coming unless they stop Russia in Ukraine.
If they don’t, Russia is going to gleefully send the EU down the path of the United States and make it politically dysfunctional, and its states aren’t so legally bound to stay whole like the US. Putin may or may not declare war, but if he isn’t beaten back and humiliated, the EU is over.
Oh for fucks sake, AfD is 20% of the vote in Germany, Scholz (SPD) lost in part for not supporting Ukraine enough.
Ukraine has overwhelming support in Europe, and for Christ sake they do too in USA, even Republicans favor supporting Ukraine.
It’s just their idiotic undemocratic 2 party system in USA that made Trump win, and give him almost absolute unchecked power.
AfD has no chance to get to power that’s anywhere near like what Trump has. A majority will clearly be created around them.
The only parliamentary problem is that AfD makes it so neither left or right have a majority, which will probably force cooperation between left and right. But both sides support Ukraine.
Views on Ukraine are far less favorable for Republicans than Democrats already, views of Russia more positive among Republicans. And I promise you, that difference is getting more dramatic soon. Other articles note this is a dramatic shift from last year.
I hope you are right, but propaganda is powerful, and I suspect the same kind of populism could absolutely take off in the EU.
Every Republican parrots Trump. At this point, that’s what makes them Republican. They will be in lock-step once Trump’s betrayal of Ukraine filters down to their low-information bubble.
Because there’s a drastic disparity between Republicans/Democrats, and (not illustrated in this pdf alone), the level of support among Republics dropped massively within a year.
AFD is literally supported in massive influence campaigns by Russia.
Clearly the european people are mad at the status quo. We can do both, ie. improve quality of life through higher spending and also spend more on defence and Ukraine aid.
This is achievable if we tax the rich and companies fairly. Of course every single major political party is against this as they are all in the pockets of the upper class and corporations to varying degrees.
This is achievable if we tax the rich and companies fairly. Of course every single major political party is against this as they are all in the pockets of the upper class and corporations to varying degrees.
Sorry, but this is a fantasy.
The mega rich should be taxed, but war is expensive and hard, and that alone isn’t enough. Europeans are going to have to want to resist Russia with money out of their pockets/a little hardship, otherwise they are going to be pissed when taxes go up. Then they run to AfD and such, like they already are.
Or debt could balloon, I guess, but fortunately the EU is smart enough to be wary of this (unlike the US).
I dunno how to give Europeans existential reasons to support Ukraine, but clamping down on Twitter/Facebook is definitely a start.
EU has already recently agreed on that, using the model from the Covid pandemic.
EU is actually moving faster now, and everybody apart from Hungary and Slovakia are in agreement, and I’m pretty sure everybody have agreed that Hungary and Slovakia will not be allowed to slow Europe down. And AFAIK they weren’t invited to the meetings with Macron in Paris last week.
We side with the US: war on our eastern front.
We side with Russia: war on our western front.
We stay on our own, like Afd, Hungary and RN wants: war on both sides.
It’s OK: we are Europeans, we have evolved an art of war, and we can take on foes. But we do need politicians with enough balls to announce the bad news.
Russia is the easiest foe to bring down, it has been economically ground to death by their current war. We can take their leadership out quite fast if it comes to that , we all know that , it’s just that no one had the balls to do it because naturally, nukes are frightening. But there isn’t much choice and the more we linger the higher the probability of nukes going of anyways (but by what will they be replaced and if we succeed, there has been 20 years of “z-patriots” brainwashing that will fast destroy anybody they don’t like at the top of Russia)
Then there is the US, they don’t like us but there has to be a way to at least make them back-off our territory.
I think the first thing to do is strike that new US empire economically (yeah, we’ll lose some feathers, but who cares about feathers when our dream of long lasting peace has been shattered in such a way that our own survival is in jeopardy (read again the first three sentences I wrote)).
The best weapon at-hand we have to kill influence from both countries is to ban (when I say “ban”, I mean it as totally cut off, no vpn’s, no DNS masquerading: this is serious business, not a music pirating site), so ban quite a few IM services and ban any crypto transaction on EU soil while forcing all our banks and companies to surrender all their crypto assets to the ECB to be used on a surprise attack, in the middle of one of the dips those crypto have from time to time. If influencers can’t be paid, then they won influence much apart from what we pay them to say. There will be hard, stupidly obvious propaganda to be made. And as Russia or the recent elections in the US show: most people are too dumb to notice brainwashing when it’s applied to them, so be it.
As far as real weapons go: apart from France, the EU is too dependant on US weapon tech to do anything meaningful against the US. So we’ve got French nukes (hurray!) but that’s all, and they cannot be used except if troops mass near the EU border. And France hasn’t got enough conventional weapons for everyone, their army is quite good but is, understandably, made to protect their borders, not the vast borders of the EU despite their relatively good logistics.
So our at-hand weapons are the size of our market and the ability to seriously fuck around with others economies. Let’s do that and go further if we really need to but we cannot count on big military manoeuvres for the foreseeable future (six months is the Max period on which we can test scenarios in these uncertain times).
Everyone looses. I’m extremely afraid of that scenario, but there is a non null probability of it happening. Meddling within the confines of the Kremlin intelligentsia can bring that kind of result but still remain necessary to achieve peace fast.
A nuclear war isn’t a war: it’s the end of it. France would be the one initiating it. They have a quite brutal doctrine: There is only one person to decide and validate the launch, no warning to be given (except if it’s troops amassing, then a 35Kton nuke is used on the massed troops to serve as a warning) , and no second wave, all weapons are fired in one wave, then pray.
France is small compared to the US, Russia or China, their strategy is to tell those bigger armies that if they attack France, to expect to lose large swath of their civilian population. The French nukes are not targeted towards army bases or nuclear launch sites but population centres only, for that reason.
Until this situation, I would have been with you, but I think China might have realized that if they play their cards right there’s a world where they just control Russia some day. If things get especially rough, I think China might play neutral.
China just has to sit back and watch us all blow each other to bits at this point.
If and when the time comes to pick up the pieces, China will be there. Oh? All you wartorn nations need new houses? Food? Energy? China is here to help. We don’t want much in return.
Yes exactly. China famously plans in centuries and I can’t imagine they didn’t see this coming - hence their rapid development the past few decades.
I expect China to only step into international conflict if someone threatens going nuclear. An irradiated earth is the only way they lose - and it’s because everyone loses.
[Edit] worried I kind of sound like a tankie there but just because I praise their forethought doesn’t mean I approve of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” or whatever they call their political system
That might be what they end up doing but it’s hiding what they really wanna do. They want Taiwan and all SE Asia in the short term and much more in the long so if they play nice w Europe it’s still a show
The EU countries need to pivot to a war time economy right fucking NOW after that display. Stop dragging your fucking feet because war is coming.
Are Europeans on board though? AfD and such are gaining ground.
Just saying, I think the EU needs to worry about its own house, too.
Almost 70% of the EU is on board with helping Ukraine. Just like every Nationalist movements, it’s always around 30% of assholes who want to destroy everything because they are morons.
Yeah, well, US support was astronomical and bipartisan. We weren’t exactly fond of Russia. And now a good chunk of the country is nodding their heads when Zelensky is called a “comedian clown” and assert the war is Ukraine’s fault.
I’m just saying, social media and propaganda is powerful, and the EU has not learned from US (or Russia) if they are taking Ukraine support for granted, especially if things escalate.
Not disputing that. EU leaders need to get their heads out of their asses fast and ban Twitter, regulate the fuck out of Meta, and stop thinking like it’s 2010 or some shit. War is coming unless they stop Russia in Ukraine.
This ^
If they don’t, Russia is going to gleefully send the EU down the path of the United States and make it politically dysfunctional, and its states aren’t so legally bound to stay whole like the US. Putin may or may not declare war, but if he isn’t beaten back and humiliated, the EU is over.
Oh for fucks sake, AfD is 20% of the vote in Germany, Scholz (SPD) lost in part for not supporting Ukraine enough.
Ukraine has overwhelming support in Europe, and for Christ sake they do too in USA, even Republicans favor supporting Ukraine.
It’s just their idiotic undemocratic 2 party system in USA that made Trump win, and give him almost absolute unchecked power.
AfD has no chance to get to power that’s anywhere near like what Trump has. A majority will clearly be created around them.
The only parliamentary problem is that AfD makes it so neither left or right have a majority, which will probably force cooperation between left and right. But both sides support Ukraine.
Not anymore:
https://news.gallup.com/file/poll/657128/250224CountryRatings.pdf
Views on Ukraine are far less favorable for Republicans than Democrats already, views of Russia more positive among Republicans. And I promise you, that difference is getting more dramatic soon. Other articles note this is a dramatic shift from last year.
I hope you are right, but propaganda is powerful, and I suspect the same kind of populism could absolutely take off in the EU.
Ukraine: Total favorable 63% Total unfavorable 31
How does that support your claim “Not anymore”?
Every Republican parrots Trump. At this point, that’s what makes them Republican. They will be in lock-step once Trump’s betrayal of Ukraine filters down to their low-information bubble.
Because there’s a drastic disparity between Republicans/Democrats, and (not illustrated in this pdf alone), the level of support among Republics dropped massively within a year.
AFD is literally supported in massive influence campaigns by Russia.
Clearly the european people are mad at the status quo. We can do both, ie. improve quality of life through higher spending and also spend more on defence and Ukraine aid.
This is achievable if we tax the rich and companies fairly. Of course every single major political party is against this as they are all in the pockets of the upper class and corporations to varying degrees.
Sorry, but this is a fantasy.
The mega rich should be taxed, but war is expensive and hard, and that alone isn’t enough. Europeans are going to have to want to resist Russia with money out of their pockets/a little hardship, otherwise they are going to be pissed when taxes go up. Then they run to AfD and such, like they already are.
Or debt could balloon, I guess, but fortunately the EU is smart enough to be wary of this (unlike the US).
I dunno how to give Europeans existential reasons to support Ukraine, but clamping down on Twitter/Facebook is definitely a start.
How about some kind of war bond? I was thinking about this earlier.
EU has already recently agreed on that, using the model from the Covid pandemic.
EU is actually moving faster now, and everybody apart from Hungary and Slovakia are in agreement, and I’m pretty sure everybody have agreed that Hungary and Slovakia will not be allowed to slow Europe down. And AFAIK they weren’t invited to the meetings with Macron in Paris last week.
That’s a great idea.
Honestly it would be amazing if the US had the same thing.
That’s precisely what was said in the comment you replied to.
Well, in all scenarios there is war:
We side with the US: war on our eastern front. We side with Russia: war on our western front. We stay on our own, like Afd, Hungary and RN wants: war on both sides.
It’s OK: we are Europeans, we have evolved an art of war, and we can take on foes. But we do need politicians with enough balls to announce the bad news.
Russia is the easiest foe to bring down, it has been economically ground to death by their current war. We can take their leadership out quite fast if it comes to that , we all know that , it’s just that no one had the balls to do it because naturally, nukes are frightening. But there isn’t much choice and the more we linger the higher the probability of nukes going of anyways (but by what will they be replaced and if we succeed, there has been 20 years of “z-patriots” brainwashing that will fast destroy anybody they don’t like at the top of Russia)
Then there is the US, they don’t like us but there has to be a way to at least make them back-off our territory.
I think the first thing to do is strike that new US empire economically (yeah, we’ll lose some feathers, but who cares about feathers when our dream of long lasting peace has been shattered in such a way that our own survival is in jeopardy (read again the first three sentences I wrote)).
The best weapon at-hand we have to kill influence from both countries is to ban (when I say “ban”, I mean it as totally cut off, no vpn’s, no DNS masquerading: this is serious business, not a music pirating site), so ban quite a few IM services and ban any crypto transaction on EU soil while forcing all our banks and companies to surrender all their crypto assets to the ECB to be used on a surprise attack, in the middle of one of the dips those crypto have from time to time. If influencers can’t be paid, then they won influence much apart from what we pay them to say. There will be hard, stupidly obvious propaganda to be made. And as Russia or the recent elections in the US show: most people are too dumb to notice brainwashing when it’s applied to them, so be it.
As far as real weapons go: apart from France, the EU is too dependant on US weapon tech to do anything meaningful against the US. So we’ve got French nukes (hurray!) but that’s all, and they cannot be used except if troops mass near the EU border. And France hasn’t got enough conventional weapons for everyone, their army is quite good but is, understandably, made to protect their borders, not the vast borders of the EU despite their relatively good logistics.
So our at-hand weapons are the size of our market and the ability to seriously fuck around with others economies. Let’s do that and go further if we really need to but we cannot count on big military manoeuvres for the foreseeable future (six months is the Max period on which we can test scenarios in these uncertain times).
Whoaaa Nellie, I lost you here.
Defending your territory is one thing, but the last thing Europe wants is a hot nuclear war with Russia… EU would definitely lose.
Every day the Russia is not stopped makes a nuclear war more probable. This has been said since 2022, and it remains true.
Everyone looses. I’m extremely afraid of that scenario, but there is a non null probability of it happening. Meddling within the confines of the Kremlin intelligentsia can bring that kind of result but still remain necessary to achieve peace fast.
A nuclear war isn’t a war: it’s the end of it. France would be the one initiating it. They have a quite brutal doctrine: There is only one person to decide and validate the launch, no warning to be given (except if it’s troops amassing, then a 35Kton nuke is used on the massed troops to serve as a warning) , and no second wave, all weapons are fired in one wave, then pray. France is small compared to the US, Russia or China, their strategy is to tell those bigger armies that if they attack France, to expect to lose large swath of their civilian population. The French nukes are not targeted towards army bases or nuclear launch sites but population centres only, for that reason.
Allies = Europe and China Axis = Russia and USA
Lol at thinking China isn’t fully with Russia
Until this situation, I would have been with you, but I think China might have realized that if they play their cards right there’s a world where they just control Russia some day. If things get especially rough, I think China might play neutral.
Picking a side might benefit them but China doesn’t have to do anything here to come out on top.
China just has to sit back and watch us all blow each other to bits at this point.
If and when the time comes to pick up the pieces, China will be there. Oh? All you wartorn nations need new houses? Food? Energy? China is here to help. We don’t want much in return.
China will own us if they wait long enough.
Yes exactly. China famously plans in centuries and I can’t imagine they didn’t see this coming - hence their rapid development the past few decades.
I expect China to only step into international conflict if someone threatens going nuclear. An irradiated earth is the only way they lose - and it’s because everyone loses.
[Edit] worried I kind of sound like a tankie there but just because I praise their forethought doesn’t mean I approve of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” or whatever they call their political system
That might be what they end up doing but it’s hiding what they really wanna do. They want Taiwan and all SE Asia in the short term and much more in the long so if they play nice w Europe it’s still a show
I don’t think it is but it also isn’t, Knawineanjellybean?
They’re fierce competitors.