DnD is stupidly complicated and hopefully this is a call out to WotC to realise that their system isn’t the gold standard because of its rules, but moreso out of happenstance.
It’s funny you say this when 5E is considered the “simplified” version, and 6E (One DnD) is suspected to be more complex. Pathfinder 1e(basically dnd 3.5E) is way, way more complex and even pathfinder 2e, which is much more simpler than 1e, is more complex than 5e.
In any case, as TTRPGs go, current DND is quite simple. However, it seems that some people who enjoy RPGs just want a simpler experience I guess.
Yeah it’s insane to me seeing this take around with this release. There are definitely intentionally rules light, heavy narrative systems that are less crunchy but DnD is not really very complicated.
Eh, there are different kinds of simplicity. My big problem with 5E is that it puts so much at GM discretion without any strong guidance than it feels like a completely different system between one GM and the next. This does in fact make character creation (and to a lesser extent gameplay) needlessly complicated because what constitutes an optimal (or even reasonable) character depends heavily on which rules the GM is going to choose to use.
Stealth is a great example. If you compare the rules involving stealth in Pathfinder 2e and D&D 5e, on the surface, it looks like 5e stealth is simpler to handle. PF2e has a chapter on it, 5e just tells you to roll stealth against passive perception. But the problem is that’s not a complete ruleset, so the DM needs to fill in the gaps, and every DM is going to have their own version of the stealth rules cobbled together from dozens of ad hoc rulings which ultimately ends up being more complicated than if the rulebook just laid it all out to begin with.
Uuuhhhh… Nah. Multiclass monsters and bug abusers are the top dps. Usually some fighter thief ranger or Taberna brawler barb+ fighter thief or monk fighter thief… You see a pattern here? The more attacks you can do (action surge + extra bonus action) the better.
The system I basically started TTRPGs with was Pathfinder. It’s rediculously more complex, but it’s complex for a reason. The rules are created I’m a way that there are almost no limits to what actions you can take that are covered. D&D has a lot of options, but some of it just has to be left the the DM.
Then we have BG3, which removed even more options, though for good reason. Creating a video game that can account for anything the player can do is hard, though some things are just missing and I’m not sure why. For example, no grappling (by the player). My guess would be that may be for animation reason (having to account for non-humanoid grappling) but I feel like they could have done something to make it work.
I quite honestly don’t understand the opinion of DnD being complicated at least from what I’ve played everything runs smooth. It being inside of a video game makes things even clearer with UI.
When you’re playing with paper and dice, things go off the rails real quick. The players can pretty well do whatever they get into their heads to do. One party that I remember decided to start digging a tunnel in the middle of a dungeon. I still don’t really know where that idea came from.
BG3’s 5e DnD is very simple compared to Pathfinder. I finished both of the Pathfinder CRPGs before playing BG3 and was shocked at how easy it is to make a good build compared to the Pathfinder games. Throw in [BG3 Spoilers] >!an angry ex god helping you!< you’ll have a lot of room to experiment with your builds.
DnD is stupidly complicated and hopefully this is a call out to WotC to realise that their system isn’t the gold standard because of its rules, but moreso out of happenstance.
It’s funny you say this when 5E is considered the “simplified” version, and 6E (One DnD) is suspected to be more complex. Pathfinder 1e(basically dnd 3.5E) is way, way more complex and even pathfinder 2e, which is much more simpler than 1e, is more complex than 5e.
In any case, as TTRPGs go, current DND is quite simple. However, it seems that some people who enjoy RPGs just want a simpler experience I guess.
Yeah it’s insane to me seeing this take around with this release. There are definitely intentionally rules light, heavy narrative systems that are less crunchy but DnD is not really very complicated.
Eh, there are different kinds of simplicity. My big problem with 5E is that it puts so much at GM discretion without any strong guidance than it feels like a completely different system between one GM and the next. This does in fact make character creation (and to a lesser extent gameplay) needlessly complicated because what constitutes an optimal (or even reasonable) character depends heavily on which rules the GM is going to choose to use.
Stealth is a great example. If you compare the rules involving stealth in Pathfinder 2e and D&D 5e, on the surface, it looks like 5e stealth is simpler to handle. PF2e has a chapter on it, 5e just tells you to roll stealth against passive perception. But the problem is that’s not a complete ruleset, so the DM needs to fill in the gaps, and every DM is going to have their own version of the stealth rules cobbled together from dozens of ad hoc rulings which ultimately ends up being more complicated than if the rulebook just laid it all out to begin with.
And it’s no surprise the stealth classes in BG3 end up outshining all others in damage potential.
Uuuhhhh… Nah. Multiclass monsters and bug abusers are the top dps. Usually some fighter thief ranger or Taberna brawler barb+ fighter thief or monk fighter thief… You see a pattern here? The more attacks you can do (action surge + extra bonus action) the better.
Dnd 5e has many legacy concepts that exist the way they do just because thats how older versions worked.
The system I basically started TTRPGs with was Pathfinder. It’s rediculously more complex, but it’s complex for a reason. The rules are created I’m a way that there are almost no limits to what actions you can take that are covered. D&D has a lot of options, but some of it just has to be left the the DM.
Then we have BG3, which removed even more options, though for good reason. Creating a video game that can account for anything the player can do is hard, though some things are just missing and I’m not sure why. For example, no grappling (by the player). My guess would be that may be for animation reason (having to account for non-humanoid grappling) but I feel like they could have done something to make it work.
I quite honestly don’t understand the opinion of DnD being complicated at least from what I’ve played everything runs smooth. It being inside of a video game makes things even clearer with UI.
When you’re playing with paper and dice, things go off the rails real quick. The players can pretty well do whatever they get into their heads to do. One party that I remember decided to start digging a tunnel in the middle of a dungeon. I still don’t really know where that idea came from.
I don’t disagrer, but UI in BG3 is way overdone relative to the system’s complexity. Solasta did it better.
BG3’s 5e DnD is very simple compared to Pathfinder. I finished both of the Pathfinder CRPGs before playing BG3 and was shocked at how easy it is to make a good build compared to the Pathfinder games. Throw in [BG3 Spoilers] >!an angry ex god helping you!< you’ll have a lot of room to experiment with your builds.
WotC is fucked as is. There are a lot of systems being created right now that is going to take those child raiding pieces of shit out.