• surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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          12 小时前

          That doesn’t make them Nazis. It makes them defenders of free speech.

          Free speech protects unpopular speech. Popular speech doesn’t need to be protected.

          • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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            12 小时前

            This isn’t about free speech. This is about amplification and publication of speech.

            You can say whatever you want, but we shouldn’t guarantee you a megaphone to say it.

                • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org
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                  5 小时前

                  They do not curate the content that’s posted there. Just because someone wrote something on Facebook does not mean Facebook endorses their opinion, just like sending someone an e-mail does not mean that your e-mail host endorses whatever you sent.

            • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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              12 小时前

              The platform isn’t the megaphone. That’s the algorithm.

              If you’re wanting their access to platforms limited, I’d like the know where you draw the line. Are they allowed to text hate speech to each other? Publish their own email or print newsletters? Should we ban them from access to printers (or printing press while we’re at it)? Should they be allowed to have hateful conversations with large groups of each other?

              • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
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                9 小时前

                That’s up to the owner of the megaphone.

                If the megaphone owner doesn’t want you to use it, create your own.

          • katy ✨@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            12 小时前

            no it makes them defenders of nazis. if youre at a table with ten nazis, youre at a table of eleven nazis

            • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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              12 小时前

              So you’re an authoritarian bootlicker who can’t tell the difference between defending free speech vs spouting hateful speech.

              I’ll defend a Nazi’s right to say their hateful shit. I’ll also gladly plead guilty to an assault charge over beating their ass for it.

              They shouldn’t fear the government for their speech. They should fear physical retaliation from their community.

              • walden@sub.wetshaving.social
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                10 小时前

                That’s the problem with the internet, really. You can’t punch these a-holes through your monitor or keyboard. The consequence here is moderation instead of physical violence. Removing these people from their platform is the punch in the nuts that they deserve. It’s still free speech because these are non-government websites.

                Edit to make it less mean sounding.

                • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 小时前

                  Exactly, which is why this should be handled by the platforms as they choose instead of by government requirement. If you don’t like how a platform moderates content, don’t use that platform.

                • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                  10 小时前

                  Considering this moderation is often done in cooperation with government censors, and the executives working at these platforms are often former government, the lines are blurred enough that I don’t support it.

                  We need more legal blocks to prevent the government from getting around the constitutional protections by coordinating with corporate third parties.

              • zoostation@lemmy.world
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                10 小时前

                Like so many others, you’ve mixed up general society with law enforcement. We defend the right for the Nazis to say their piece without being imprisoned. Running a business profiting from letting Nazis publish their speech is a choice, and not a necessary one. Using and supporting the social relevance of a social network that voluntarily publishes hate speech for profit is a choice, and not a necessary one.

                • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 小时前

                  And that’s exactly what the user you’re replying to has been saying all along.

                  This post is about the UN, as in, a governmental authority. The whole discussion here is that moderation isn’t something for the government to do (outside of prosecutable crimes), it’s for private entities to do. Meta can moderate its platforms however it chooses, and users can similarly choose to stop using the platform. Governments shouldn’t force Meta to moderate or not moderate, that’s completely outside its bailiwick.

                  • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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                    6 小时前

                    Meta pushes opinions, advertisements, and engagement. The government can and should regulate their bullshittery. Our privacy has been violated along with our rights.

                    Your view of these platforms and what they do is completely disconnected from reality. They are advertising platforms that are used to influence elections not a “platform for speech”.

                    You can’t ignore the reality of what they have already done and we are past pretending it is in any way altruistic.

                    There is no moving onto other platforms when they they use their profits to buy up all their competitors. You can look at the current dating site situation to see how without government regulations monopolies have formed.

                    Your hands off approach is unetainable and also ignores that other free countries have things like anti-hate laws and they are doing way better than we are.

                    The solution is to fix the government and then regulate the hell out of these fuckers. This is the way.

                • xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org
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                  9 小时前

                  A social site doesn’t publish anything, it’s just a medium for users to communicate.

    • Mr_Blott@feddit.uk
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      13 小时前

      And those that still think fReE sPEECh is an acceptable concept in the modern world?

      • futatorius@lemm.ee
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        3 小时前

        In what sense is algoritmically-amplified, targeted data transmission speech? It’s of a scale that makes it qualitatively vastly different, and its impact has nothing to do with human speech or the press before the time of the internet (with the exception of yellow journalism, and we all know how well that served us).

        I defend the right for you to say what you want, with few restrictions. But that doesn’t mean you can set up a 250 kwatt PA system outside my bedroom window and 3 AM and shake me out of my bed with the subsonics. And that’s where we are with the oligopoly social media providers.

      • Ulrich@feddit.org
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        10 小时前

        Ya know I never thought I’d see the day that a marginalized people would protest free speech fundamentally. This is just next level stupid.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        10 小时前

        Free speech is absolutely an acceptable concept, but it’s merely a restriction on government.

        Private platforms are free to drop you from their platform if they don’t like your speech, and you can be prosecuted if your speech violates a law (e.g. hate speech). Platforms can also restrict the types of speech allowed on their platforms. None of that is a violation of free speech.

        Free speech is only violated if governments place a restriction on the speech itself, or force private entities to enforce restrictions.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          7 小时前

          but it’s merely a restriction on government.

          It isn’t. Free speech is a right the gov can give you, but it’s also just a concept.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                6 小时前

                It’s not a strawman, it’s literally what you wrote.

                The Bill of Rights in the US only exists to prevent encroachment on individual rights, they’re not necessary in order for people to have them. Arguably, governments only have rights explicitly granted to them, because they only exist due to the people submitting themselves to them.

                It’s an important distinction, and one so many seem to misunderstand. I’m not saying you do, I’m merely clarifying in case someone else does.

                • futatorius@lemm.ee
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                  3 小时前

                  And, in reality, the only rights that remain are those that have been fought for. “Inalienable rights, granted by the Creator” is a lovely concept, but it’s not self-enforcing, and as we’ve seen, rights can be effectively nullified by a corrupt Supreme Court and a fascist legislature and executive branch. OK, you can pretend they still exist in the abstract, but they’re de facto gone if state institutions or people power don’t defend them.

                  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                    3 小时前

                    Agreed. In fact, the whole concept of inalienable rights, specifically the phase “all men are created equal” in the Declaration of Independence, was used to justify the American Revolution. In essence, people are endowed with certain rights from their creator, one of which is deciding which powers to be subject to. If your government doesn’t represent your interests, you have the moral right to reject it and seek to replace it with one that does.

                    So yes, we absolutely need to fight to protect the rights we do have, and reestablish those we lost. Giving up even more rights in the process is counter-productive. We need more movements like the Civil Rights movement to demand change. We’ve given up too much power to the police, intelligence agencies, and more, and we should absolutely actively resist and demand restoration of our full rights.

                • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                  6 小时前

                  It’s not a strawman, it’s literally what you wrote.

                  You ignored the point I was making to argue about semantics. Still are. That’s a strawman.

      • Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works
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        12 小时前

        Free speech without consequences is what fascists are after. Free speech is an action to which they want no reaction or even worse when there is a negative reaction (also a desired goal) they will use that to attack the structures attempting to uphold peace.