• Mr_Blott@feddit.uk
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    12 hours ago

    And those that still think fReE sPEECh is an acceptable concept in the modern world?

    • futatorius@lemm.ee
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      3 hours ago

      In what sense is algoritmically-amplified, targeted data transmission speech? It’s of a scale that makes it qualitatively vastly different, and its impact has nothing to do with human speech or the press before the time of the internet (with the exception of yellow journalism, and we all know how well that served us).

      I defend the right for you to say what you want, with few restrictions. But that doesn’t mean you can set up a 250 kwatt PA system outside my bedroom window and 3 AM and shake me out of my bed with the subsonics. And that’s where we are with the oligopoly social media providers.

    • Ulrich@feddit.org
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      10 hours ago

      Ya know I never thought I’d see the day that a marginalized people would protest free speech fundamentally. This is just next level stupid.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      10 hours ago

      Free speech is absolutely an acceptable concept, but it’s merely a restriction on government.

      Private platforms are free to drop you from their platform if they don’t like your speech, and you can be prosecuted if your speech violates a law (e.g. hate speech). Platforms can also restrict the types of speech allowed on their platforms. None of that is a violation of free speech.

      Free speech is only violated if governments place a restriction on the speech itself, or force private entities to enforce restrictions.

      • Ulrich@feddit.org
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        6 hours ago

        but it’s merely a restriction on government.

        It isn’t. Free speech is a right the gov can give you, but it’s also just a concept.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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              6 hours ago

              It’s not a strawman, it’s literally what you wrote.

              The Bill of Rights in the US only exists to prevent encroachment on individual rights, they’re not necessary in order for people to have them. Arguably, governments only have rights explicitly granted to them, because they only exist due to the people submitting themselves to them.

              It’s an important distinction, and one so many seem to misunderstand. I’m not saying you do, I’m merely clarifying in case someone else does.

              • futatorius@lemm.ee
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                3 hours ago

                And, in reality, the only rights that remain are those that have been fought for. “Inalienable rights, granted by the Creator” is a lovely concept, but it’s not self-enforcing, and as we’ve seen, rights can be effectively nullified by a corrupt Supreme Court and a fascist legislature and executive branch. OK, you can pretend they still exist in the abstract, but they’re de facto gone if state institutions or people power don’t defend them.

                • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 hours ago

                  Agreed. In fact, the whole concept of inalienable rights, specifically the phase “all men are created equal” in the Declaration of Independence, was used to justify the American Revolution. In essence, people are endowed with certain rights from their creator, one of which is deciding which powers to be subject to. If your government doesn’t represent your interests, you have the moral right to reject it and seek to replace it with one that does.

                  So yes, we absolutely need to fight to protect the rights we do have, and reestablish those we lost. Giving up even more rights in the process is counter-productive. We need more movements like the Civil Rights movement to demand change. We’ve given up too much power to the police, intelligence agencies, and more, and we should absolutely actively resist and demand restoration of our full rights.

              • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                6 hours ago

                It’s not a strawman, it’s literally what you wrote.

                You ignored the point I was making to argue about semantics. Still are. That’s a strawman.

                  • Ulrich@feddit.org
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                    5 hours ago

                    I stated my point very bluntly in the comment you replied to above. Freedom of speech is not “merely a restriction on government”. It is a concept that exists outside of government entirely. And it has everything to do with anywhere speech is expressed, including private platforms.

    • Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works
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      12 hours ago

      Free speech without consequences is what fascists are after. Free speech is an action to which they want no reaction or even worse when there is a negative reaction (also a desired goal) they will use that to attack the structures attempting to uphold peace.