Ford and Musk. They Made Cars. They Backed Fascists.
prospect.org
Each age’s premier industrialist has had appalling politics.

Summary

Parallels between Henry Ford and Elon Musk illustrate their transformative roles in automaking alongside troubling political affiliations.

Ford’s antisemitism and support for Nazi Germany mirror Musk’s current opposition to unions and endorsement of Germany’s far-right AfD party, which is linked to neo-Nazism.

Musk’s intervention in Germany’s election and promotion of far-right figures on X echoes Ford’s use of media to propagate hate.

Both industrialists are criticized for their social and political impact beyond their industries, with Musk’s actions raising alarm about democracy and labor rights.

  • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
    216·
    3 days ago

    We’re not talking about yearly sales. The article is about how musk and ford both backed fascists and then YOU SAY

    "The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars. "

    So stop moving the goal post and admit you’re wrong.

    Also my edit above shows Tesla is on track to sell MORE vehicles than Ford did in the same time frame.

    • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
      7·
      2 days ago

      When I was four, I once ate 23 shrimp in one sitting. That’s a lot of shrimp!

      If an adult were to eat 23 shrimp, it would be wholly unremarkable.

      Ford was the first person to make broadly affordable cars in an immature market.

      Around a century later, ford’s numbers are dwarfed by a much larger auto market.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
        22·
        2 days ago

        Just because they might sell less cars than others in an established market where the others have decades of extra growth time on them, doesn’t negate the fact that they sell a lot of cars.

        You are all delusional in your attempt to deny that 7 million cars is a lot of cars.

        • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
          3·
          2 days ago

          It’s a lot of cars like 23 is a lot of shrimp. It is, but not compared to the size of an adult (or other auto makers, even younger ones than Tesla!)

          • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
            11·
            2 days ago

            I’m not trying to say it’s a lot compared to Toyota. OP is saying they haven’t sold a lot of cars while making a direct comparison to old Ford, while having sold 7 million, and also on track to beat the until now undisputed record at scaling from nothing to something that Ford originally made.

            Edit: In case it wasn’t clear, it was a terrible comparison for OP to make

            • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
              3·
              2 days ago

              I know that’s how this started. I don’t think it makes a difference. It would be wild to say “car manufacturers like ford and Tesla make a lot of cars,” because that’s misleading. What everyone else is doing is saying “[for a global auto manufacturer,] Tesla doesn’t sell a lot of cars,” and you’re not adding the bracketed portion.

              You don’t have to, but it’s implied by the framing and everyone else isn’t wrong because they’re inferring the correct context that you’re unable or unwilling to infer.

              • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
                11·
                2 days ago

                Except everyone is trying to change the frame to defend OPs stance which is

                A: A flat out wrong comparison

                B: moving the goal post

                OP was wrong and you’re all to stubborn to admit it and want to find another way to be right. To do that, you need to move the goal posts and make it a comparison to today’s auto manufactuers.

                Edit clarity and below:
                Ford was just the same antisemetic person at the state that Tesla is in now, and both sold a lot of cars.

                In 1918, Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent.[82] A year and a half later, Ford began publishing a series of articles in the paper under his own name, claiming a vast Jewish conspiracy was affecting America.[83] The series ran in 91 issues. Every Ford dealership nationwide was required to carry the paper and distribute it to its customers. Ford later bound the articles into four volumes entitled The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem, which was translated into multiple languages and distributed widely across the US and Europe.[84][85] The International Jew blamed nearly all the troubles it saw in American society on Jews.[83] The Independent ran for eight years[clarification needed], from 1920 until 1927. With around 700,000 readers of his newspaper, Ford emerged as a “spokesman for right-wing extremism and religious prejudice.”[86]

                Sound familiar?

                • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
                  3·
                  2 days ago

                  If everyone around you seems to be really stubborn, maybe it’s time to check your shoes.

                  Obviously ford was antisemitic, but he’s not the same as musk for several reasons:

                  He was actually way more racist

                  He was a competent engineer

                  He controlled a much larger share of the auto market

                  • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
                    11·
                    2 days ago

                    You’re trying to move the goal posts here, but I’ll bite

                    He was actually way more racist

                    I think we can both agree they’re both bad people at this point in their own ways, I don’t see the need to rate

                    He was a competent engineer

                    This is where the delusion usually sets in. While he does not have a engineering degree, so he can’t sign off on projects for other people companies, he is an engineer at SpaceX for all intents and purposes. Anyone who has spoken publicly about this, including Tom Mueller who helped build SpaceX from nothing says so. People all try to deny it by saying he and others lying to save face, making it a big conspiracy and they fall back to anonymous sources that try to say he does nothing and gobble it up.

                    He controlled a much larger share of the auto market

                    Tesla is the global leader in BEV vehicles.