• Sundial@lemm.ee
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          9 hours ago

          Ok, and you’re point? You’re surprised that a Palestinian is proud of her people fighting back against oppression, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing? No one can blame Palestinians for hating Israel with every fibre in their being. Not after all that Israel has done to them.

          • GarlicToast@programming.dev
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            8 hours ago

            You are justifying me calling her hateful.

            What I expect from a non-hatful person is to condemn by action, not by side. Adults can handle that complexity.

            Everything Israel does in the West Bank is wrong. The 7th of October attack lead by Hamas from Gaza is wrong.

            If you cheer for an act of evil, if it makes you feel joy, you are evil, you are hateful.

            • Sundial@lemm.ee
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              7 hours ago

              You’re little “both sides did wrong” rhetoric is pretty hollow considering you belittled her views as simply being “a hateful retard”. Any person who actually believed what you said you believe would have said something like “I don’t think she should be saying she’s proud of something like Oct 7th but she should be able to speak in defence of her people and condemn whats being doing to them”. You don’t call someone a hateful retard simply because she is happy that her people are finally fighting back from decades of oppression.

              • GarlicToast@programming.dev
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                7 hours ago

                The people of Gaza were not fucked by Israel. They were fucked by history. Did Israel add to the fire? Yes, did it cause it? No.

                Murdering random people in their house is not fighting for freedom.

                Kicking Hamas out is fighting for freedom.

                I’ll call the same to a Jewish person that will show happiness to the current happening in Germany. Because I met such people, both “Palestinians” (that never lived there) and “German” Jews (that never lived there). Both had shallow world view that had just enough depth to spew hate. Not even one bit deeper.

                I didn’t call her a bitch, cus that word works only toward women, and that is wrong.

                • Sundial@lemm.ee
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                  7 hours ago

                  You said “hateful retard”, I’ll correct my comment. Still the same logic applies.

                  No they were definitely fucked by Israel. Saying they were fucked by history is a pretty pathetic attempt to have Israel absolved of all its sins.

                  Amnesty Report

                  Human Rights Watch Report

                  B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

                  Origins of Zionism

                  Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.

                  Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.

                  That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.

                  Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.

                  Quote

                  Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

                  The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

                  An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

                  Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid

                  Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.

                  This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.

                  The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:

                  Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:

                  While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements

                  The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.

                  The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.

                  Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing

                  Peace Process and Solution

                  Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

                  How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

                  ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

                  One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

                  Historian Works on the History
  • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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    18 hours ago

    She also said: “And everyone is, we are both in fear, but also in fear of what, how Israel will retaliate and how we’ve seen it retaliate overnight, and the missiles that it’s launched and the attacks, but also we are full of pride. We are really, really full of joy of what happened.”

    Sorry what? Full of joy of what happening? The October 7th attacks?

    Why would that bring you joy?

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      17 hours ago

      Abu Qamar, who led the Friends of Palestine society at the University of Manchester, said she was misinterpreted and that she was seeking to support Palestinian resistance to occupation and does not condone the use of violence against civilians, nor has she expressed support for Hamas.

      The tribunal said the Home Office decision was a “disproportionate interference with her protected right to free speech” under the European convention on human rights. It found that her statements could not be taken as support for Hamas or the Hamas-led attacks on 7 October.

      The judgment also said Abu Qamar was “not an extremist”, and said her references to Israel as an “apartheid” state were consistent with views expressed by human rights organisations. It added that her language of “actively resisting” and “broke free” would be recognised by informed observers as relating to lawful acts of Palestinian resistance.

      Why are you a staunch defender of a genocidal war mongering state. Isreal is a rabid dog, a pit bull ragdolling children.

      • blackn1ght@feddit.uk
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        16 hours ago

        said she was misinterpreted and that she was seeking to support Palestinian resistance to occupation and does not condone the use of violence against civilians

        “we are full of pride. We are really, really full of joy of what happened.”

        I’m not really sure what she meant then if she’s being mis-interpretted. What happened was violence against civilians and they’re apparently full of pride and joy over it?

      • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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        17 hours ago

        war mongering state.

        Lol. Remind me what the trigger was for this current conflict?

        Also, the reference to Israel being an “apartheid state” is the most ludicrous statement and anyone who expressed it can be safely ignored.

        • Sundial@lemm.ee
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          9 hours ago

          Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is well documented. The genocide and apartheid labels are well founded with ample evidence.

          Amnesty Report

          Human Rights Watch Report

          B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

          You are completely wrong about the history of the conflict. You are also conflating Zionism with Judaism, which are 2 very different things. Israel has never represented all Jewish people and never will, nor are it’s actions done to benefit all Jewish people. The conflation is itself antisemitic. Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.

          Origins of Zionism

          Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.

          Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.

          That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.

          Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.

          Quote

          Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

          The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

          An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

          Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid

          Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.

          This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.

          The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:

          Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:

          While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements

          The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.

          The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.

          Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing

          Peace Process and Solution

          Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

          How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

          ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

          One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

          Historian Works on the History
        • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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          17 hours ago

          Also, the reference to Israel being an “apartheid state” is the most ludicrous statement and anyone who expressed it can be safely ignored.

          Well I’d love to hear the argument that tries to back this statement up.

          • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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            17 hours ago

            I’m still waiting for evidence of this supposed “apartheid” that people keep going on about.

            Before October 7th, Palestinians would regularly be welcomed across the border to live and work in Israel if they so wished. Just that simple fact blows the “apartheid” or “prison state” arguments out.

            Like genocide, oppression is another thing Israel aren’t very good at.

        • Grimy@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          You mean the event which Israel knew about and let happen, coming from a group they actively fund which was born out of their own constant oppression?

          In any case, genocide is never a valid response. And the disproportionate amount of violence, bombing and innocent deaths speak loud as to just how rapid the dog is. Isreal also has a long history of attacking it’s neighbors in times of piece.

          Apartheid refers to the implementation and maintenance of a system of legalized racial segregation in which one racial group is deprived of political and civil rights. (From Cornell law)

          How does this not apply?

        • dontgooglefinderscult@lemmings.world
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          16 hours ago

          Remind me what the trigger was for this current conflict?

          Zionist violence in the 1880s primarily harassing Jews that lived in the regions n continuously for the last 4k years.

          To your second point, Israel is an apartheid state. There’s no way around that title.