About one third of the Israelis killed and taken hostage on October 7 were active duty IDF soldiers. That doesn’t excuse the terrorist attacks on Civilians but it is important to point out that Israel has a much worse combatant to civilians killed ratio than Hamas or Hezbollah.
That is not fair. “Active duty IDF soldier” is everyone in Israel once they reach a certain age. Even the ultra-orthodox are no longer exempt.
You’re talking about 18-year-olds who were conscripted taking some R&R to go to a music festival.
Again, this doesn’t excuse anything that has happened subsequently or anything Israel did before either, but it’s not like we’re talking senior leadership here.
Some of them were taking R&R, some were along the border fence.
When every single person in your country is required to be a soldier when they turn 18, I don’t think suggesting they’re fair game in a situation like what happened in October 7th.
If they’re actively fighting, that’s a different story. But they weren’t. The people sending them to war should be the targets considering they do not have a choice in the matter.
I assume you don’t blame Russian conscripts for the war in Ukraine despite that also involving genocide.
Every death is a tragedy, but combatants are “fair game” in an armed conflict. This does not mean to “blame” them for what brought them there.
And for the Russian conscripts i will still not count them as civilians killed, even though they are also on the short end of Putins madness.
There is a major difference between Russia and Israel though. The Russian conscripts rarely had a chance to escape Russia. Most Israelis have a second or even third nationality. Their families are there by choice, not by lack of options.
It wasn’t an armed conflict until they began it on October 7th.
Whether or not Israel drove them to do it is another issue. I believe that’s what happened. But it doesn’t change the fact that I would not consider conscripts fair game in that situation because the situation itself is not a fair one.
An armed siege and occupation are armed conflicts.
Just because there wasn’t active fighting at a time does not change the fact that at least one side established its position by force. To take the example of Crimea. Just because Russia moved in to occupy it quickly and there was little fighting, it is still an armed conflict. If Russia wouldn’t roam Crimea with its army, it wouldn’t hold control of it. The same is true for the siege of Gaza that Israel upheld before reinvading it.
That is a fact. There was no fighting going on at the time. It was not an armed conflict at the time. Just because they had an armed conflict at times before that doesn’t mean that was what was happening at that time.
India and Pakistan have gone to war multiple times. That doesn’t mean they’re always at war.
Sorry, I replied to you again without realizing you were the person who tried to lie about me being an Israel supporter. My mistake. I won’t reply again after this.
When every single person in your country is required to be a soldier when they turn 18,
Just because the state violently forces people to do awful things that doesn’t absolve the state from being awful. There are many people who resist. I know some. They’ve had to flee the state because the state and the society are so oppressive of decent people. It’s really gross to ignore the sacrifices of these brave people.
That is not fair. “Active duty IDF soldier” is everyone in Israel once they reach a certain age.
It’s completely fair to judge a fascist society by their fascism.
Do we excuse the nazis because many were indoctrinated as nazi youths? No of course not. It might give us some understanding and compassion but it’s a completely fair judgement to say it’s a sick society.
About one third of the Israelis killed and taken hostage on October 7 were active duty IDF soldiers. That doesn’t excuse the terrorist attacks on Civilians but it is important to point out that Israel has a much worse combatant to civilians killed ratio than Hamas or Hezbollah.
That is not fair. “Active duty IDF soldier” is everyone in Israel once they reach a certain age. Even the ultra-orthodox are no longer exempt.
You’re talking about 18-year-olds who were conscripted taking some R&R to go to a music festival.
Again, this doesn’t excuse anything that has happened subsequently or anything Israel did before either, but it’s not like we’re talking senior leadership here.
Soldiers in military bases along the border fence are not taking some R&R going to a music festival.
And if they are armed at the border of a region they siege, being 18 years old is not an excuse not to be considered a soldier.
Some of them were taking R&R, some were along the border fence.
When every single person in your country is required to be a soldier when they turn 18, I don’t think suggesting they’re fair game in a situation like what happened in October 7th.
If they’re actively fighting, that’s a different story. But they weren’t. The people sending them to war should be the targets considering they do not have a choice in the matter.
I assume you don’t blame Russian conscripts for the war in Ukraine despite that also involving genocide.
Every death is a tragedy, but combatants are “fair game” in an armed conflict. This does not mean to “blame” them for what brought them there.
And for the Russian conscripts i will still not count them as civilians killed, even though they are also on the short end of Putins madness.
There is a major difference between Russia and Israel though. The Russian conscripts rarely had a chance to escape Russia. Most Israelis have a second or even third nationality. Their families are there by choice, not by lack of options.
It wasn’t an armed conflict until they began it on October 7th.
Whether or not Israel drove them to do it is another issue. I believe that’s what happened. But it doesn’t change the fact that I would not consider conscripts fair game in that situation because the situation itself is not a fair one.
An armed siege and occupation are armed conflicts.
Just because there wasn’t active fighting at a time does not change the fact that at least one side established its position by force. To take the example of Crimea. Just because Russia moved in to occupy it quickly and there was little fighting, it is still an armed conflict. If Russia wouldn’t roam Crimea with its army, it wouldn’t hold control of it. The same is true for the siege of Gaza that Israel upheld before reinvading it.
Of course there was armed conflict or do you think the apartheid and blockade of Gaza was enforced with bubblegum and rainbows?
Did you even read what I wrote?
You said,
I disagreed with that assessment. What’s so hard for you to understand?
Gross.
That is a fact. There was no fighting going on at the time. It was not an armed conflict at the time. Just because they had an armed conflict at times before that doesn’t mean that was what was happening at that time.
India and Pakistan have gone to war multiple times. That doesn’t mean they’re always at war.
Sorry, I replied to you again without realizing you were the person who tried to lie about me being an Israel supporter. My mistake. I won’t reply again after this.
Just because the state violently forces people to do awful things that doesn’t absolve the state from being awful. There are many people who resist. I know some. They’ve had to flee the state because the state and the society are so oppressive of decent people. It’s really gross to ignore the sacrifices of these brave people.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/27/who-are-the-israeli-refuseniks-picking-jail-over-the-gaza-war
I have made it clear again and again that Israel as a state is not absolved.
Now you are dishonestly implying that I have not.
I see no reason to continue a conversation with someone who makes such a disgusting implication of me.
Sure, the zio regime is to blame but its loyal servants are pure as snow. Whatever.
It’s completely fair to judge a fascist society by their fascism.
Do we excuse the nazis because many were indoctrinated as nazi youths? No of course not. It might give us some understanding and compassion but it’s a completely fair judgement to say it’s a sick society.
How do you know they have been indoctrinated?
That’s like saying Vietnam vets supported that war.
The ones that didn’t fled the government under penalty of persecution. Honestly brave and an example to aspire to.
Not everyone is that brave. Nor should we expect everyone to be willing to abandon their families.