"Progressives should not make the same mistake that Ernst ThƤlmann made in 1932. The leader of the German Communist Party, ThƤlmann saw mainstream liberals as his enemies, and so the center and left never joined forces against the Nazis. ThƤlmann famously said that āsome Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forestā of social democrats, whom he sneeringly called āsocial fascists.ā
After Adolf Hitler gained power in 1933, ThƤlmann was arrested. He was shot on Hitlerās orders in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1944."
Not funding and supplying a genocide seems to be a pretty clear and easy issue to change especially when 60%+ of democrats are in favor of it. Weāre already violating our own laws by continuing to do so.
The democrats are already moving to the right even with the left continuing to vote for them. They think they can win over some centrists republicans (even though they canāt in a meaningful number) by adopting right wing policies while not losing the left because at the moment they know votes are guaranteed because ārepublicans worseā.
Having voters in areas that effectively donāt matter this cycle show there displeasure in the genocide weāre enabling is the least we can do to counter it.
I donāt think they think that. I think weāve swallowed that lie hook, line and sinker for 40 years and they will keep throwing the same bait as long as we keep biting while they keep moving right.
Oh I agree, but thatās was a whole other can of worms I wasnāt trying to get into at the moment since Iāve got a busy and long work day thatās still not over unfortunately lol
I hear you. Thanks for the reply.
I directly answered your question, and you seem to have ignored what I said. Plus you really should reexamine your assumptions about the importance of Gaza, the āeaseā of withdrawing support, how much Democrats have moved rightward, and how many centrist Republicans vote for Democrats.
Your level of frustration with the process is inversely proportional to your awareness of these trends, of which Democratic leaders are likely well aware. Moreover, you seem to be valuing the strongly-held opinions of voters in non-swing states (what youāre calling ādeep blue statesā or āareas that effectively donāt matterā) more highly than the maybe-less-strongly held opinions of voters in swing states. If 5% of Democratic voters in California want sushi, and 5% of Democratic voters in Pennsylvania want steak, Iām picking steak and telling the California voters to take a hike. Their opinion doesnāt even register on my radar thanks to the electoral consequences of pissing off the Pennsylvanians who wanted steak.
I didnāt ignore what you said. My retort to
Was that if itās a clear issue like the genocide Israel is carrying out that has a lot of strong opposition to the Democrats current position it really isnāt all that hard to triangulate what the cause is.
Itās been known itās THE issue the democrats are losing support for given the coverage of the non committed movement. As for how tough it is to Itās literally not support a genocide thatās how you please that group. Itās literally following our current laws to not supply and fund a country committing a genocide.
Literally from your own link āthough some questioned whether it would push them not to vote at all.ā In a thread where people are complaining about a small amount of people voting third party could lose the election for democrats in swing states I guess it is an important issue if itās driving even some people in swing states to not vote.
Also when the non committed movement has more support in some states than the margin of victory in 2020 I would say itās pretty important.
So genocide is alright as long as theyāre an enemy of Iran, thatās your argument? Israel is literally the one escalating the situation in the area, pulling their support or at least threatening to do so until the genocide is stopped would actually deescalate the situation in the region.
I donāt disagree theyāve moved left on most social issues when looking at at that long of a time span thatās in the article you linked. Iām talking this election cycle Kamala has clearly shifted right from the policies she ran on in 2016.
In 1 election, thatās the sample size. Thatās not a trend and itās against Trump who is an historically awful candidate for moderates to try and stomach. Theyāll be back voting R once heās gone so itās not a good long term strategy when youāre alienating what should be your base to the point their considering not voting or voting third party.
You completely misunderstood what my example was trying to get across. Iām not valuing non swing state voters opinions more than swing state voters.
I understand that the swing state voters are going to have an outsized role in what each party pushes. Tactically I would be saying the voters in swing states especially should be witholding their vote unless the democrats stop supporting Israelās genocide since it would be more leverage but obviously trump getting elected isnāt a great alternative which is why I didnāt mention that since thatās a risk.
What I was saying is that given that non swing states you can safely vote third party to show your displeasure in the genocide weāre supporting and possibly shed light that itās got a large amount of importance to voters.
Edit: formatting since Iām on mobile and at work.