Ukrainian troops have reportedly advanced six miles into Russian territory and captured an area roughly the size of Philadelphia.
  • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    2542·
    3 months ago

    It’s time for Russia to concede territory and end the war for the sake of all Russians.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldMEnglish
      487·
      3 months ago

      Some Tankie argued with me about that because he told me to find a quote from Putin where he literally said that. Like, does that matter? That was the general Russian sentiment.

      • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        46·
        3 months ago

        I don’t think Putin publicly said it to br fair. It’s something that was said by Russian propagandists and there was a leaked FSB report claiming that Putin also believed it.

        Clearly things are not going according to plan for Russia though, regardless of they thought it’d take three days or three months. Their actions in the initial hours and days of the war also seemed to indicate they were aiming for a quick decapitation.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldMEnglish
          214·
          3 months ago

          I don’t think he did either, but it’s a silly request to make because it was very obvious that, even if the ‘three days’ thing wasn’t literal, they expected the war to be over very quickly and they would roll into Kyiv with little resistance.

          • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            12·
            3 months ago

            Very true. It’s really frustrating having a discussion with those people because they never seem to argue in good faith. I honestly don’t think they can possibly believe some of the unhinged stuff they say.

        • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
          5·
          3 months ago

          Apparently Lukashenko said the “Kyiv in three days” part. I can’t find a good source to link, though.

  • Empricorn@feddit.nlEnglish
    809·
    3 months ago

    Ukraine should immediately and publicly offer peace terms with Russia:

    • Both countries reset to *1991 borders. Each nation immediately leaves others’ territory
    • Return any captured Ukrainian men, women, and children
    • Russian reparations for people, land, equipment destroyed or stolen
    • Kremlin leaders responsible for invasion to face an international tribunal

    This would show that Ukraine is reasonable but still allowed to defend itself. But more importantly, it would shut up the boot-licking tankies who muddy the waters and falsely claim that bOtH SiDeS are invading each other…

  • rustyfish@lemmy.worldEnglish
    61·
    3 months ago

    And so Ukraine starts a special operation on Russian territory to defeat the Nazi regime and save the Ukrainian majority population.

  • TacticsConsort@yiffit.netEnglish
    56·
    3 months ago

    Oh shit, they’ve actually captured the area and are holding it? That’s pretty significant! If they can keep this up, then maybe they can force Russia to concede? …Though any russian deal to end the war obviously won’t be honoured, which does make it a bit of a conundrum. Still, this is a good thing.

    • Justin@lemmy.jlh.nameEnglish
      55·
      3 months ago

      Ukraine is not dug in, but it definitely seems like Russia’s front line around Kursk is collapsing, and Ukraine has the initiative here.

    • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      47·
      3 months ago

      Russia’s border defense turned out to be mostly conscripts who got the fuck out of the way and/or surrendered the minute the fighting got remotely serious. And behind them is a whole lot of nothing until they hit the secondary lines which are, one would assume, a little more solid and based on natural obstacles like rivers and cities.

      The contract soldiers are better, but they’re also on the frontline.

      • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
        21·
        3 months ago

        So basically the same quality defenses that rolled over when the Wagner guy started his march to Moscow…

        • psycho_driver@lemmy.worldEnglish
          19·
          3 months ago

          That guy was such a moron. Once you start something like that, you’d best see it through or die trying (rather than die a short time later on other people’s terms).

      • Rayspekt@lemmy.worldEnglish
        18·
        3 months ago

        So what about going around the rear and attacking Donbass from the russian side? I have no further knowledge, just spitballing here

        • Furball@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          22·
          3 months ago

          That’s the kind of military plan hitler would order after a bit too much meth, to get to Rostov Ukraine would need to go hundreds of miles behind enemy lines with no logistics

          • Buddahriffic@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            3 months ago

            Hitler also used the largest invasion force in history (3.8 million troops, vs 3 million for the Nazi invasion of France or 2 million for the allied invasion France). And still failed so badly he lost the entire war.

            Though it is hard to compare them because the contexts are so different. Russia isn’t as motivated this time as USSR was in the 1940s.

        • Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.worldEnglish
          11·
          3 months ago

          There’s no way they realistically hold or capture any of this. They just don’t have the logistics. But it’s an amazing opportunity to create a dilemma for Russia. They either 1) ignore it and let Ukrainian forces rampage around in Russian territory unopposed or 2) they redeploy forces from the front to defend Russian territory.

          The Ukrainian forces should stay nimble either way, and retreat without too big a fight back to their own territory in the latter case, hopefully having caused enough of a diversion for a counteroffensive where they need it.

          • toofpic@lemmy.worldEnglish
            5·
            3 months ago

            To add to that, on a map it all looks small, so you can imagine: go here, get there. But to actually “cross the front in the opposite direction into Donetsk region” they would need to cover about 300 km - quick, unprotected and without any logistical support, or slow but sure, but this is what they might plan anyway. They will probably try to widen the gap and dismantle the border defences

          • AA5B@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            3 months ago

            There’s an interesting possibility 3 …. Not that I have any idea about what is realistic in this war, but what if the goal is actual fighting? The active front is dig in and fatal to anything that moves: advancing is next to impossible. However western weapons were meant for speed, maneuverability. What if they draw Russia out to a fight on Western terms?

        • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
          4·
          3 months ago

          They could probably pull some gorilla attacks off behind their lines, but there’s no way they have the logistics to do a full assault on the rear. The best option would probably be to harass Russian supply lines.

          • Socsa@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            3·
            3 months ago

            Flanking attacks snowball when you collapse the fortified lines and link up with your own forward deployed troops.

      • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        3 months ago

        mostly conscripts who got the fuck out of the way and/or surrendered the minute the fighting got remotely serious.

        Who said that there weren’t any wise people in the Russian army?

    • thebestaquaman@lemmy.worldEnglish
      14·
      3 months ago

      Last I checked it looked like they had breached some major lines of defence, which means they may be past the worst of minefields etc. If they have room to manoeuvre for real by the time the russians send more forces the russians are going to have a real bad time trying to respond to this.

    • Sibbo@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      143·
      3 months ago

      I strongly believe that Russia is preparing a more serious response. They just were not prepared for this, so didn’t have defenses in place. Better to retreat and cede some territory than wasting troops in a losing battle. Since their land is so large, they can still come back later and reconquer.

      Also, Ukraine can’t use that many troops to actually fortify the region, given that they are also under heavy pressure at the more southern fronts.

      And, 130 square miles is tiny compared to all the territory that Russia got so far.

      Well, I believe the biggest win about this is for morale. Russians get scared because the war is now in their country, and Ukrainians get a buffer zone.

      • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
        13·
        3 months ago

        Yeah, I assume this is a dual purpose morale booster and demoralizerm Ukraine shows that Russias defenses are a paper tiger because they relied on threats and it will force Russia to respond with troops, either by pulling from the front lines or reinforcements. Either way it moves the fighting to Russian land and that will demoralize support in Russia.

        Plus they can disrupt more supply lines and war manufacturing locations by going around the border defenses. They don’t even need to hold ground, just be a thorn in Russia’s side.

      • No_Eponym@lemmy.caEnglish
        61·
        3 months ago

        Also, Putin may need to divert resources from Ukraine and halt advances there earlier than intended.

        Of course, if Putin drops a tactical nuke inside of Russia’s internationally-recognized boarders, will the world care? And if so, how much? Could backfire on Ukraine a bit in the short-term.

        • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
          14·
          3 months ago

          Of course, if Putin drops a tactical nuke inside of Russia’s internationally-recognized boarders, will the world care?

          Yes, they will care about nuclear fallout blowing across Europe at a minimum.

        • cybermass@lemmy.caEnglish
          13·
          3 months ago

          I believe any live use of a nuclear weapon would result in near universal sanctioning, including by Beijing

  • psmgx@lemmy.worldEnglish
    365·
    3 months ago

    Am area the size of Philly. Whew that’s gonna worry Russia.

    IIRC it’s to smash the gas pipelines. If they want to actually hold this they’re gonna have a hard time. Maybe they can turn it into a flanking move or something, otherwise it has the makings of a “high water mark” moment like Gettysburg.

    • Telodzrum@lemmy.worldEnglish
      29·
      3 months ago

      IIRC it’s to smash the gas pipelines.

      It’s to make Russia either destroy the facilities in order to dislodge the UAF and retake the area or show weakness and allow the capture to stand for a period.

    • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.worldEnglish
      15·
      3 months ago

      Those gas pipelines run through Ukraine, don’t they? If they wanted to cut off the pipeline they didn’t need to cross the border to do that.

      • barsquid@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        3 months ago

        Russia is having a hard time because everyone working for Putin is a con man grifter. Some are, in addition to being frauds, also dumb as fuck.

  • Plopp@lemmy.worldEnglish
    121·
    3 months ago

    Surprise move by Ukraine! Watch Russia nuke their own territory to be able to use a nuke to look strong, dangerous and unpredictable and not get in trouble for it.

    (This is a joke)

  • RubberDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
    10·
    3 months ago

    And they will dig in probably, forcing Russian troops to use their destroy and advance tactic on their own villages.

  • peopleproblems@lemmy.worldEnglish
    92·
    3 months ago

    This wouldnt have been related to the F-16s in action now would it?

    I know they are wicked overpowered comepared to a lot of Russian aircraft, but do they have this sort of range?

      • peopleproblems@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        3 months ago

        Ok. I see why that is silly yes.

        I don’t know how far away from the border the fighters take off from. I also don’t know how altitude plays into the whole combat and range thing. For all I know, they take off 300 miles away from the border, cruise at 30k feet, fly lower, drop some bombs, fly back up at 30k and head another 300 miles back.

        I don’t actually know if 600 miles is a long distance for an F-16 but it is a small plane.

        I also don’t know how big Ukraine is thinking about it.

        • marcos@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          3 months ago

          Yep.

          The range is both very important and not applicable to your question. Ukraine fighters will always reach the war zone, whatever range they have, because fighters with less capacity will take-off closer to it and thus be more at risk.