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- cross-posted to:
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Luckily for the red side, the system’s designed so that sand can vote
and their votes count more than your city votes!
I can hear their goddamned chants…
Every square yard counts!
Every square yard counts!When it suits them. That is basically how it does work, to their benefit. If it benefitted Democrats, well then… “that’s entirely different, see?”, they’d be screaming to high heaven at the “unfair librul conspiracy to take over the government!”
Every square yard counts!
Every square yard counts!“Never fight uphill me boys!”
Trump comes up with the strangest lines, I swear.
Despite the constant negative press covfefe
It was a Perfect phone call
We’re going to win bigly
But it was too late.
Gettysburg. Wow.
It helps people, it’s unconstitutional!
I hate that.
Yep. Thanks slavery! A great idea that just keeps givin’
Wait, so the US Votes by area and not by head count?
This country was founded on the idea that land is power and land owners get to vote.
We need to change that. Peacefully first. But if that doesn’t work…peaceful protesting only works for so long.
¡VIVA LA PROLETARIAT! DEATH TO THE RICH!
That huge red circles Phoenix right?
Why would a popular video game character get his own spot on this map?
Ace Attorney is just that popular in Arizona
Eat your hamburgers, Apollo…
Oh, I thought he was talking about 7-11’s Cool Spot Video Game.
Hey, that’s not fair. Some of that is also sagebrush and pine trees. And some of it is cool rocks.
I’ll allow it.
I doubt anyone will disagree with me but “look at how red this map is” is the stupidest arguement.
Last year after ana election my dad reposted a map on Facebook like this but for the single issue on our states ballot. The comment from the original poster was something like liberal cities decided this all counties need representation. Of course the counties that weren’t blue were mostly populated by cows.
But like seriously this was a direct popular vote on a single issue you can’t get a more representative election than that one.
My favorite thing to do with these people is to ask them “okay, would it be alright if these issues were decided on a per-county basis then?”, if they say no they’ve outed themselves as just wanting to hold as much control over others as possible from a minority position, if they say yes ask again but with individual towns, if they say yes to that, then you narrow it down to individual people, then they tend to get mad when they realize what you’ve done
then you narrow it down to individual people, then they tend to get mad when they realize what you’ve done
That’s anarchocapitalism…
Yep. There are currently three heavy biases favoring the rural population. -senate (by design) -the house --not by design, but because the representation was capped at 435. It hasn’t grown with population and thus a citizen in Wyoming gets more representation than a citizen in California (or Texas for that matter) -the presidency by virtue of the above two being biased.
Fix house apportionment, let the Senate be the safeguard, and the presidency will have a very slight protection by nature of the electors via what matches the Senate.
This is all in line with the framing of the Constitution, but it gives up power to “the bad guys” (aka the actual majority)
I don’t think it is relevant.
The xkcd points out distribution and population.
The second map highlights how much more democratic the us is than republican and that is it obviously a broken system that republican’s have a chance of winning
agreed - love xkcd, happy to see it anytime, but it’s very specifically out of context here.
Population maps are what it’s about.
2nd map only shows full red or blue dots, whereas in reality each dot would be a pie-chart of red and blue.
Land doesn’t vote. People vote.
**Land SHOULDN’T vote.
Abolish the senate.
Why does the Senate exist then?
State governments, which represent the people, vote.
Normally, in a democracy, you have two chambers for the legislature so that one of them is filled by popular vote from all over the country and the other by representatives allocated for administrative divisions.
In the US both chambers are allocated for predefined divisions, just on different scales (state vs slice of population), so the principle of the popular vote is not represented.
It does serve (in theory) to make up for a state that had lower population, but since the slices are subject to manipulation it’s debatable.
I’m not sure what you’re asking. The Senate isn’t based on land. Texas gets just as many votes in the Senate as Rohde Island.
Why does land determine who tells me what to do then?
Because the US electoral system is fundamentally broken?
What? It’s a worldwide thing, not just the US
Yes, to some extent it happens everywhere but the US has reduced the phenominon to its grotesque final form.
No, it happens to the same extent in basically anywhere that’s populated and can afford to enforce it
Ya…ok…
there’s no lying like lying with maps
(for those ggr nerds, yes, “the map was a lie”)
Especially Google maps, they persuaded my friend to turn right and now he thinks corporations are people.
never considered online service maps much as political maps, but of course they are. What gets mapped as POI tells people what they are to find interesting and what not vice versa.
Is the top image a map someone tried to push as the ratio of red vs blue counties?
That’s often how it gets portrayed, yes.
I was just checking to see if this was a specific instance or if there was a certain news outlet that did so recently.
I don’t know of any news outlets doing so. But apparently Trump made that particular misrepresentation by retweating a meme in 2019.
The meme in question was basically an electoral college map like that top image in the OP with “Impeach This” or “Try To Impeach This” across the top.
And if you want to see the actual tweet in question but twitter (I refuse to call it “X”) is a huge asshole about it, here’s a link to the tweet Trump retweeted on Archive.org:
As others have said, yes it is. Unfortunately it’s also a strong representation of how the voting process operates in the US. At the local level (towns and cities), individual votes matter. However, for something like the presidential election (for example), then the votes are averaged by county and state.
So what happens is everyone from a county votes, and if that county is more of one side than the other, that entire county is “voting x/y”. Then the counties across the state are compared, and that state is declared as “voting” for either side. Then nationally, each state is counted as either/or, so even if the more populated cities vote one way, if enough of the rural population votes the other way, the rural side wins, and the urban side loses.
It’s almost as if the system urgently needs reform. Too bad the powers in charge of that were elected specifically because of it.
Good luck trying to get an American conservative to understand what the second map represents. I means shit, they refuse to grasp the concept of “per capita” because they know it makes them look bad.
gasp Are you suggesting, good sir, that republiQans may in fact not be arguing a particular point in good faith???
NO! I cannot believe it.
I hate sand
It’s coarse and rough, and it votes Republican
People live in cities
What’s your point, though? I’m not sure if you’re pointing out that this is basically a population density map in order to argue something in particular? Because it seems like OP’s entire point was that while the majority of Americans are not conservative, people disguise this fact by NOT using population density maps to demonstrate political spreads.
So, yeah, people live in cities. And most Americans swing left. Glad we can both read the map and agree on its message 👍
Mostly only recently
I’m ancient times, people outside city walls weren’t even allowed to vote. Add in the fact that humanity is tribal in nature, and your statement holds even less true.
You think the peasants outside city walls were even allowed to vote on anything? They were literally outsiders that knew little to nothing about the inner (more populated) parts of cities.
A city’s overall opinion is literally more important than rural mud slinging opinion, if for no other reason than because more people live there, and are affected by policy.
Edit: sorry for being mean
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to create polemic. I’m well aware that for most of history democratic voting wasn’t a thing.
Just wanted to add a bit of context, yes, by population city opinion is more important NOW, but until very recently, considering strictly population, it was not, and the current political tensions are in part caused by this change.
I wish respectful conversation, sorry if I seemed rude.
Sorry if I seemed rude. Ignoring life problems, I’m not great at talking to people or voicing my thoughts, I just get really angry over things since a car wreck a couple years ago. Like all my feelings towards anything at all have been amplified. I do genuinely hope you have a good rest of your day.
I do still feel that your statement on the matter excludes the fact that, since the dawn of history, the town/city has been infinitely more relevant to voting matters than rural could ever be. As I said, the people living outside the city walls were irrelevant to practical sociopolitical matters.
Certainly, but in the context of democracies, the rural people were made very relevant, being the majority, but now are being pushed back into being irrelevant, and are angry about it.
I too wish you a good rest of the day, and a wonderful weekend, and may you come across people that stand with you so you can feel better.
Yes. I’m not sure why that needs to be pointed out?
Probably why when the slaver’s college was being debated the “let’s not concentrate political power in a few northeastern cities” argument held more sway.
Political voting power shifting to cities is only very recent?
I mean if by very recent you mean around the 60’s sure. But that’s still for like 20% of this country’s existence. Early in the country’s history New York/Boston/Philadelphia also had a lot of power in deciding who became president.
I don’t like sand. It’s rough, and coarse, and irritating - and it gets everywhere.
Fascinating.
How come they always color the places that don’t have anybody there as red?
Why can’t blue take it?
They are probably coloring whole counties, where the second map just makes a dot for each country proportional to population.
Thank you for actually understanding what the second map says. It’s shocking how many people in these comments were so easily fooled into thinking that is where the people live in the second map.
The other complication is that the second map is so potato you can’t see what color the smaller dots are and I think it gives overall a bluer impression than it would at higher quality.
It’s the same reason all around the world: India, China, Australia, Venezuela, Romania, Kenya: Hicks.
Hicks are everywhere. And they vote for regressive authoritarians for any number of reasons, most of them wrong.
Fear… Humans have an evolutionary and natural fear of the unknown… If you live way out in the middle of nowhere, pretty much everything outside your tiny bubble is unknown, and therefore scary. Then assholes come in and use that fear to their advantage. “Everything you’re afraid of IS horrible and out to get you! Vote for me and I’ll protect you”
I love classism
Oh there you go bringing class into it again
Again?
Oh, xd
Probably because 40 out of the 50 voters in those counties voted red.
Because of the way the US handles elections.
Here’s a link to my other comment that explains it as I (a laymen) understand it as I was taught in school.
Keep in mind both of these maps are grossly misleading. Or at least one is being presented in a misleading way.
One is just coloring an entire county the way the majority voted. This is why those huge (land) counties are all red, because at least 1 more person in it votes for trump than Biden (presumably, I don’t know what the map is actually based on but it’s a safe bet). So that’s why “the sand” is regularly colored red. Although saying noone lives these is misleading.
Which leads me to the second map is probably a noble effort to show some population scale, by reducing all of the counties to a circle the relative size of their population, but it’s being misrepresented here as if that’s where all of the people in those counties live, which is certainly false. Just look at the center of the country, it’s basically a grid of small dots. Do people honestly think the population is distributed like that?
The most frustrating thing about this is everyone in this thread is complaining about how Republicans are too stupid to understand why the map is colored the way it is…while being absolutely fooled as to why the other map is the way it is.
The most frustrating thing about this is everyone in this thread is complaining about how Republicans are too stupid to understand why the map is colored the way it is…while being absolutely fooled as to why the other map is the way it is.
Fwiw I don’t think anyone’s “fooled” by the first map. Or (again, imo) that all republiQans are too stupid to understand why sand doesn’t vote.
I do think the first map is regularly used as a right-wing talking point by individuals and corporate news to “explain” how republiQans must be winning elections, and that explanation is false. Presumably many of the individuals and all corporate news organizations know that. Which is why it’s just straight-up propaganda.
My point is that the second map, at least the way it is being framed in this meme, is equally misleading.
What it is presumably showing is dot in the middle of each county (although clearly not in middle for places like the NE that are being pushed apart, but I think it’s true for like kansas/nebraska) that is scaled relative to the population of that county. It’s not necessarily where the people in that county live.
I get that Republicans use the former map to deceive and spread propaganda. What I’m pointing out is that is exactly what is happening with the way the second map is being framed in this meme. It’s pure absurdity for people to fall hook, line, and sinker for it. . .while shitting on the intelligence of people who fell hook, line, and sinker for another map being presented in a misleading way.
Oh right - well, again fwiw, I doubt people are lead to believe that midwest populations are laid out in perfect order like that.
Hm. That said, most midwest towns are laid out in some kind of grid. But that’s more about transportation than politics.
Both the title of the submission and the wording on the graph indicates otherwise.
Possibly because unless you have an eight figure trust fund the GOP doesn’t help you, so if you vote Republican you are stupid?
Apparently, hating dumb Republicans doesn’t preclude you from being dumb yourself. Imagine that
Oh man, you got me so good. You forgot to tell me how your dad can beat up my dad.
It’s funny because my point was based off of what you actually said, your’s was just a mindless childish insult… ironically accusing me of making childish retorts.
It’s funny how much you see what you hate about yourself in other people.
Blue has abandoned anything outside cities. Their outreach is basically move to a city, which unsurprisingly isn’t popular there.
Question: do you think the MAJORITY of people should decide how they’re governed?
And that’s aside from the obvious fact that red team is currently pushing a convicted felon seditious child raping traitor as their defacto king?
According to you: they abandoned things outside cities, so they’re not popular inside of cities???
Lol tell me you’re ignorant without telling me you’re ignorant.
