It allows parents to choose what school they want their kids to go to.
My daughter from grades k-2 was physically abused by a mentally disabled child that the administration of the school refused to address. We’ve even heard from other parent their kids were regularly hit and abused as well from this child. I walked this issue all the way up to the superintendent and didn’t get any meaningful solutions for 2.8 (we left the school mid-semester) whole school years. Not even an offer to move my daughter to another class (there were at least 2 other classes at each grade level)… or school in the district (of something like 15 schools). Literally nothing.
For most people this leaves only one option. Move. Pick up your life and move, because a school sucks and you want the best for your child. Any other answer means you have to come significantly out of pocket.
With this program there’s now three options out the gate. Move, home-school, or private school. With no caveats of coming out of pocket.
The outcome of my choice. My kid was nearly a full year behind what her new school was teaching. We spent a good amount of the summer catching her up to the program the new school is on. She started ENJOYING reading. And a lot less tears and bullshit after school when we picked her up.
Before you argue that the school must have been underfunded! The school district she came from had several years of pay increases for all teaching faculty. And according to statistics published by the school district, enrollment numbers were on a strong downward trend. So teachers getting paid more for handling less students overall, and the only recourse I was given was to literally leave.
You can hate the program. I appreciate it. It’s a way I can hold the school accountable for the bullshit they push onto my kids. If they had done better from the get-go, my kids would still be there. They lost that opportunity due to their own failures and faults. None of which were money related, though I recognize that my decision does hurt them financially… but my kid comes first and I don’t feel that people should get paid for doing a poor job. Ultimately…
high quality
isn’t happening.
This is anti-american in so many ways.
I will disagree. I now have a choice, and freedom of choice is a hell of an American thing. For my daughters, their education remains free through this type of program, but now my wife and I can also choose to place them into whichever school works best for them (which ends up equating to high quality).
Your anecdote doesn’t mean this is not a net loss for education. I had the opposite experience where a private school sucked a whole lot more than the public one. I did not have nearly the same opportunities in the private school that I did in the public school. I did not have nearly the same safety in private school as I did in private school.
Additionally, when parents choose the schools, de facto segregation occurs. Arizona doesn’t need more opportunities for systemic racism.
I’m sorry you had poor experiences, but that doesn’t justify gutting the whole system.
Your anecdote doesn’t mean this is not a net loss for education.
This whole article only talks about public school finances and doesn’t talk about “net loss for education” either. It’s entirely possible since it wasn’t discussed that students overall are getting better outcomes.
I did not have nearly the same opportunities in the private school that I did in the public school. I did not have nearly the same safety in private school as I did in private school.
This sounds like your parents failed to place you where you needed to be to succeed… How is that anyone else’s fault other than your parents? Taking away choice from everyone else is a bit nearsighted.
but that doesn’t justify gutting the whole system.
I don’t believe this guts them. I think this requires them to compete… But just like I admitted my statements are anecdotes. Yours are as well. You experience in private school doesn’t mean that public system is superior in any way.
You experience in private school doesn’t mean that public system is superior in any way.
Right. That’s my point. Neither of the anecdotes have precedence. Mine doesn’t matter, but yours doesn’t either.
As for saying my parents didn’t place me where I needed to succeed, I’m not sure how that fits with what you said about parents not having enough options. It seems like a contradiction to me, but maybe you can clarify.
I noticed you didn’t address the segregation point.
I noticed you didn’t address the segregation point.
Because I think it’s a bullshit point? How does it segregate if EVERYONE now has the option to go to a private school?
I’m not sure how that fits with what you said about parents not having enough options.
Your parents had the option… They chose to pay and put you into a public school it sounds like. But they either were shit parents… or didn’t care enough about your schooling to place you in what you believe would have been a better choice. Options doesn’t always mean people make the best choice… or that every option is worthwhile to every individual. That doesn’t mean we should take away the choice and gatekeep those choices behind “well I hope you have enough money to pay for that education out of pocket!”.
But here’s another separate point I think is worth bringing up. If public schools are losing tons of students and that’s hurting their bottom line… and now there’s not enough money to keep them going… Why not scale it back? For shits and giggles I looked up the old school district. I was way off. They have 58 (!) elementary schools. If you don’t have enough students to fill those schools… Cut them back. Instead they’re opening more… Although now at a slower timescale while cutting jobs at the same time. The logic here is wild, they’re clearly throwing boatloads of money out the window here (into buildings), but I’m supposed to care? Hell they also spent some amount of millions revamping their logos and changing school names, now that’s a pressing matter when you’re on a budget shortfall right?! None of this affected my decision to pull my daughter out of the school. I never cared to pay attention to this shit. But you can’t beg for money, be mad when people say no just to do dumb shit with the money you already have. This is the same exact premise I apply to other public assets like Police. Cops don’t need fucking military vehicles, spend that money on training instead.
The new school? They had plans to build new schools. They scrapped them completely upon seeing that enrollment wasn’t growing. They even scaled back in some areas. Oh and something I specifically omitted. The program lets you go to other public school districts (it’s not JUST private and home schooling). So a district can have a policy that you have to go to the “nearest” school, but this program lets you migrate to other districts if desired and they allow it. My kids are still in public school. In any other state without this program that ALSO wouldn’t be an option for me.
The state this year faced a $1.4 billion budget shortfall, much of which was a result of the new voucher spending, according to the Grand Canyon Institute, a local nonpartisan fiscal and economic policy think tank. Last fiscal year alone, the price tag of universal vouchers in Arizona skyrocketed from an original official estimate of just under $65 million to roughly $332 million, the Grand Canyon analysis found; another $429 million in costs is expected this year.
This article plainly states how this shit is fucked and not helping. It is a massive drag on our education budget. Please shut the fuck up if all you have to offer is anecdotal defenses to a shitty system that cost 100x more than projected. Its not good, its not helping, its fucking bad.
Oh geeze, I looked at your comments. I did get it wrong. I thought republican but you’re clearly further right. I see you defending project 2025 and saying Germany shouldn’t have made nazi salutes illegal. Ew. Blocking you.
LMFAO. If that’s what you want to take away from it, sure. I asked for exactly what part of “project2025” is fascism. And notice I didn’t get an answer… But that isn’t me defending it. It’s me asking for where they’re finding fascism. Just because I don’t follow some random claim doesn’t make me republican or even right leaning.
Curious how much these “vouchers” give, and how much the private tuition is nowadays. I’m gonna guess that its not going to be enough, so what do the lower income parents do?
When my parents sent me to a catholic high school (i did not want to go to) they were paying about 10k a year, and that was 20 years ago. That school had hardly any of the learning opportunities the public high school did (it has always been very well funded).
The public school system my kiddo goes to is also well funded and the admins there are very supportive. When we moved mid year all we had to do is fill out a form and if there was room (there was) my kiddo was still able to go to his old school. Granted the new one is literally down the street but we wanted him to finish out the year with his existing friends.
Idk, there’s forms and a process for requesting a inter district move on our kiddos school district site regardless of reason. Heck I’ve got two other public school systems near me that I could apply to send my kiddo to if i had to. We’d just be responsible for transport if approved in that case.
Going back over the article pointed out that those vouchers are available to families that never sent their kiddos to a public schools, so that means the state is likely subsidizing more than expected. The ESA program gives parents $7k according to the article.
Google search for Arizona brings up educating elementary kiddos cos the state ~$8,600 per student so just on that, if an existing student transfers out of public and i to a private school, i guess they “save” $1,600 dollarsper kiddo that way.
Now the parents get that $7k for private or homeschooling, but another search advised that the average private elementary school was between $9,600-$10,600 a year. So that’s a good few grand extra that the parents have to fork out, unless they were already sending the kiddos there, then the money was already expected to be spent by the parents. Especially considering schools could cost much higher (an almost $30k example was given on the high end). I doubt those parents would even have considered sending their kids to public school if they be spending that much money.
To be fair, i wouldn’t blame any of the parents taking advantage of the program, it just ends up hurting the other kids in the public school as budget shortfalls start accumulating and programs and offerings have to be cut to balance the budgets. Then the district will ask for a tax increase, and in especially red areas, i wonder how that would go?
At minimum there should be rules in place to prevent abuse, I don’t have faith that would happen.
You are. The program lets you go to other public schools as well. Which is the option that I chose for my kids since I had a ton of trouble with the local district.
It allows parents to choose what school they want their kids to go to.
My daughter from grades k-2 was physically abused by a mentally disabled child that the administration of the school refused to address. We’ve even heard from other parent their kids were regularly hit and abused as well from this child. I walked this issue all the way up to the superintendent and didn’t get any meaningful solutions for 2.8 (we left the school mid-semester) whole school years. Not even an offer to move my daughter to another class (there were at least 2 other classes at each grade level)… or school in the district (of something like 15 schools). Literally nothing.
For most people this leaves only one option. Move. Pick up your life and move, because a school sucks and you want the best for your child. Any other answer means you have to come significantly out of pocket.
With this program there’s now three options out the gate. Move, home-school, or private school. With no caveats of coming out of pocket.
The outcome of my choice. My kid was nearly a full year behind what her new school was teaching. We spent a good amount of the summer catching her up to the program the new school is on. She started ENJOYING reading. And a lot less tears and bullshit after school when we picked her up.
Before you argue that the school must have been underfunded! The school district she came from had several years of pay increases for all teaching faculty. And according to statistics published by the school district, enrollment numbers were on a strong downward trend. So teachers getting paid more for handling less students overall, and the only recourse I was given was to literally leave.
You can hate the program. I appreciate it. It’s a way I can hold the school accountable for the bullshit they push onto my kids. If they had done better from the get-go, my kids would still be there. They lost that opportunity due to their own failures and faults. None of which were money related, though I recognize that my decision does hurt them financially… but my kid comes first and I don’t feel that people should get paid for doing a poor job. Ultimately…
isn’t happening.
I will disagree. I now have a choice, and freedom of choice is a hell of an American thing. For my daughters, their education remains free through this type of program, but now my wife and I can also choose to place them into whichever school works best for them (which ends up equating to high quality).
Your anecdote doesn’t mean this is not a net loss for education. I had the opposite experience where a private school sucked a whole lot more than the public one. I did not have nearly the same opportunities in the private school that I did in the public school. I did not have nearly the same safety in private school as I did in private school.
Additionally, when parents choose the schools, de facto segregation occurs. Arizona doesn’t need more opportunities for systemic racism.
I’m sorry you had poor experiences, but that doesn’t justify gutting the whole system.
This whole article only talks about public school finances and doesn’t talk about “net loss for education” either. It’s entirely possible since it wasn’t discussed that students overall are getting better outcomes.
This sounds like your parents failed to place you where you needed to be to succeed… How is that anyone else’s fault other than your parents? Taking away choice from everyone else is a bit nearsighted.
I don’t believe this guts them. I think this requires them to compete… But just like I admitted my statements are anecdotes. Yours are as well. You experience in private school doesn’t mean that public system is superior in any way.
Right. That’s my point. Neither of the anecdotes have precedence. Mine doesn’t matter, but yours doesn’t either.
As for saying my parents didn’t place me where I needed to succeed, I’m not sure how that fits with what you said about parents not having enough options. It seems like a contradiction to me, but maybe you can clarify.
I noticed you didn’t address the segregation point.
Because I think it’s a bullshit point? How does it segregate if EVERYONE now has the option to go to a private school?
Your parents had the option… They chose to pay and put you into a public school it sounds like. But they either were shit parents… or didn’t care enough about your schooling to place you in what you believe would have been a better choice. Options doesn’t always mean people make the best choice… or that every option is worthwhile to every individual. That doesn’t mean we should take away the choice and gatekeep those choices behind “well I hope you have enough money to pay for that education out of pocket!”.
But here’s another separate point I think is worth bringing up. If public schools are losing tons of students and that’s hurting their bottom line… and now there’s not enough money to keep them going… Why not scale it back? For shits and giggles I looked up the old school district. I was way off. They have 58 (!) elementary schools. If you don’t have enough students to fill those schools… Cut them back. Instead they’re opening more… Although now at a slower timescale while cutting jobs at the same time. The logic here is wild, they’re clearly throwing boatloads of money out the window here (into buildings), but I’m supposed to care? Hell they also spent some amount of millions revamping their logos and changing school names, now that’s a pressing matter when you’re on a budget shortfall right?! None of this affected my decision to pull my daughter out of the school. I never cared to pay attention to this shit. But you can’t beg for money, be mad when people say no just to do dumb shit with the money you already have. This is the same exact premise I apply to other public assets like Police. Cops don’t need fucking military vehicles, spend that money on training instead.
The new school? They had plans to build new schools. They scrapped them completely upon seeing that enrollment wasn’t growing. They even scaled back in some areas. Oh and something I specifically omitted. The program lets you go to other public school districts (it’s not JUST private and home schooling). So a district can have a policy that you have to go to the “nearest” school, but this program lets you migrate to other districts if desired and they allow it. My kids are still in public school. In any other state without this program that ALSO wouldn’t be an option for me.
This article plainly states how this shit is fucked and not helping. It is a massive drag on our education budget. Please shut the fuck up if all you have to offer is anecdotal defenses to a shitty system that cost 100x more than projected. Its not good, its not helping, its fucking bad.
No thanks.
Gee golly gosh I wonder what your race, political party, and favorite news channel are. It’s so hard to tell.
Bet you get every single one of them wrong.
Oh geeze, I looked at your comments. I did get it wrong. I thought republican but you’re clearly further right. I see you defending project 2025 and saying Germany shouldn’t have made nazi salutes illegal. Ew. Blocking you.
LMFAO. If that’s what you want to take away from it, sure. I asked for exactly what part of “project2025” is fascism. And notice I didn’t get an answer… But that isn’t me defending it. It’s me asking for where they’re finding fascism. Just because I don’t follow some random claim doesn’t make me republican or even right leaning.
Curious how much these “vouchers” give, and how much the private tuition is nowadays. I’m gonna guess that its not going to be enough, so what do the lower income parents do?
When my parents sent me to a catholic high school (i did not want to go to) they were paying about 10k a year, and that was 20 years ago. That school had hardly any of the learning opportunities the public high school did (it has always been very well funded).
The public school system my kiddo goes to is also well funded and the admins there are very supportive. When we moved mid year all we had to do is fill out a form and if there was room (there was) my kiddo was still able to go to his old school. Granted the new one is literally down the street but we wanted him to finish out the year with his existing friends.
Idk, there’s forms and a process for requesting a inter district move on our kiddos school district site regardless of reason. Heck I’ve got two other public school systems near me that I could apply to send my kiddo to if i had to. We’d just be responsible for transport if approved in that case.
The article states some numbers. Might want to give that a read.
Going back over the article pointed out that those vouchers are available to families that never sent their kiddos to a public schools, so that means the state is likely subsidizing more than expected. The ESA program gives parents $7k according to the article.
Google search for Arizona brings up educating elementary kiddos cos the state ~$8,600 per student so just on that, if an existing student transfers out of public and i to a private school, i guess they “save” $1,600 dollarsper kiddo that way.
Now the parents get that $7k for private or homeschooling, but another search advised that the average private elementary school was between $9,600-$10,600 a year. So that’s a good few grand extra that the parents have to fork out, unless they were already sending the kiddos there, then the money was already expected to be spent by the parents. Especially considering schools could cost much higher (an almost $30k example was given on the high end). I doubt those parents would even have considered sending their kids to public school if they be spending that much money.
To be fair, i wouldn’t blame any of the parents taking advantage of the program, it just ends up hurting the other kids in the public school as budget shortfalls start accumulating and programs and offerings have to be cut to balance the budgets. Then the district will ask for a tax increase, and in especially red areas, i wonder how that would go?
At minimum there should be rules in place to prevent abuse, I don’t have faith that would happen.
Or am I missing something?
You are. The program lets you go to other public schools as well. Which is the option that I chose for my kids since I had a ton of trouble with the local district.