Democratic leaders have stood by the president as he faces questions about his ability to defeat Trump in November. But privately, many are expressing concern.
No kidding, if y’all put Bernie in as Democrat pick I’m voting fucking Trump.
The other ones (Kamala, Buttigege and Newcom) I might be fine with. But 100% Bernie is far left bullshit I for one am not putting up with. And no, we ain’t gonna go with an even older candidate who is far more extreme.
EDIT: I’m a Republican. You have me on some candidates. Newcom is… a stretch but I can imagine myself voting for him vs Trump, but not much else. Kamala and Buttigege I can be fine with but I don’t think they can win Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan.
Bernie? He’s too far left and very extreme in my eyes. Bernie (and his cohort of Occupy Wall Street dumbasses) don’t even understand how the world works, how families react to some of these policies or whatever. It’d be an instant and immediate loss for the Democrats. Sorry to say. He’s so far left I personally need to vote against that. You’re going too far.
Free housing, free health care, free everything. It sounds good until you look at Venezuela.
When we point out… oh… I dunno… how Venezuela collapses because of government takeover as private entities or their other socialist policies (which directly have similarities to Bernie’s discussion points), yall just ignore us.
We’re seriously having issues coming up with a budget where Social Security does fine over the next 20 years, and Bernie over here is reaching to the far, far, far extreme and going “Not only Free Social Security, but Free Housing and Health Care on top of it”. Okaaaaaaayyyyyyy. Lets talk about the taxes needed to get that funded.
Hell, can we even start with the taxes we need to keep Social Security going?
And you can see the problem right after that. Bernie is fully unrealistic. Its the benefit of being on the flank, Bernie can promise the world because he doesn’t actually have to worry about the details of his proposals.
Do you know how Elon Musk tricks his dumbass followers that they’re all going to Mars? And its so ridiculous that no one actually seriously talks about the overall plan?
That’s Bernie Sanders. No one seriously debates him because its so far out. Seeing a couple of followers get strung up in Bernie’s moonshots is whatever, its going to happen. But nothing will come from it, and Bernie knows that. (Much like how Elon knows all the bullshit he spews is nothing either).
I get that its a popular way to get a niche following. But when we’re talking about a real Presidential candidate, hopes and dreams aren’t quite good enough. You’ll need to talk about things that are ya know, at least close to political reality.
Or if Elon Musk is a bad example, consider how the Abortion debate played out. Back 10 years ago, it wasn’t really a real discussion point. Today, it is, and now its suddenly a problem for Republicans because the implementation details of Abortion bans are really fucking stupid.
Same thing with Bernie. By the time Bernie is in office, its too late to realize that it was all bullshittery and the numbers simply don’t line up.
On healthcare: removing the profit incentives of private health insurance drives down costs as well as frees up money to pay for universal coverage. It’s not free Healthcare and has never been referred to as such unless people are debating in bad faith. He wrote the Medicare for All bill and just because you aren’t aware of the details doesn’t mean Sanders didn’t have them.
On housing: again calling it free housing is a disingenuous bait. His housing policy had so many facets that even if only half his proposals were put into place, it would do wonders to improve the situation for millions of Americans. Federal funding for expanding Community Land Trusts (if you don’t know what CLTs are you should look it up), combat gentrification/exclusionary zoning/segregation/speculation, expand the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund a fund that he was responsible for and fought for 15 years to become the first new federal affordable housing program funded in several decades, tenant protections like New York’s right to counsel that was created in 2017, which saw their eviction rates drop five times faster than comparable areas. God damn man I could keep going but if I haven’t made my point why waste the effort.
All of this could easily be paid by taxing the wealthy and reducing military spending. Would that be a problem for you?
The fuck do I hear Bernie saying “Medicare for All” ?
That’s literally free Healthcare as his top-of-the-line discussion point for the last decade.
All of this could easily be paid by taxing the wealthy and reducing military spending. Would that be a problem for you?
Where does Ukraine and Taiwan fit in that reduced military spending?
Ah right, Bernie is also isolationist. He probably doesn’t give a shit. And even if we don’t support Israel (I know how the left feels about that), we the USA need to continue to patrol the Red Sea vs not just the Houthis, but also Somali Pirates and other threats.
Military spending is going up, by any realistic discussion. Ukraine is only heating up, and Taiwan is likely getting hotter and hotter as China literally cuts off Filipino fingers and uses them to bully others in the Far East. If yall think peace will happen by reducing US Military spending at this juncture, you’re losing my vote.
Bonus points: I’m also Filipino. So consider myself, and my family, very interested in hearing what the Democrats actually have to say about far-east stability / Taiwan / China’s increasingly aggressive actions.
Military spending is going up, and not because anyone wants war. But because its necessary to keep the peace. USA has no control over China or Russia, we only have control over our own spending. And we must keep our spending up with them as they get more aggressive.
Yeah, and Medicare / Social Security are already going bankrupt by 2040.
A gross expansion of those programs will make them go bankrupt even faster. You need to explain how to raise money for a “Medicare for All” program… and not just “Well fuck Taiwan / Phillipines / Far East / Ukraine / everyone else in the world”.
We’re going to have our hands full just keeping the programs available over the next few decades, and you want to expand them?
You’re either trolling or too stubborn to evaluate new information that might change your position.
Medicare For All is not free healthcare, as in on the government’s dime, it is entirely paid for by taxes. (Unless you actually object to free healthcare as in being able to go to the hospital when you need it for free, which is too ludicrous to be sincere.) The only reason it seems “free” is that the total operating cost of the system without the middleman of private insurance is significantly lower than our existing healthcare spending.
Most households would significantly increase their spending power throughout the year by eliminating healthcare premiums, deductibles, copays, and prescription costs in excess of $200 a year, and would only see a smaller increase at tax time. Those who would be paying more in total are very wealthy households who would be paying primarily at tax time, and frankly many of those households have not been paying their fair share of taxes already, so I find it hard to see that as a bad thing.
Medicare For All is not free healthcare, as in on the government’s dime, it is entirely paid for by taxes.
Yeah, no shit sherlock. Socialist / Communist countries like Cuba also pay for Health Care.
That doesn’t change the fact that several important examples (Soviet Union, Cuba, and now most recently, Venezuela) have collapsed… or are currently collapsing under that load and those costs.
We know plenty of examples of countries who have done that. My question is why the fuck do you want to bring it to the USA?
Hopefully you can offer me a good enough candidate where I don’t feel like supporting the fascist. But if you go too far left, there’s a point where fascism doesn’t look as bad. No joke.
But the further left you go, the more points you lose out on me. I’m relatively religious (not the most compared to my family, but moreso than you guys I’m sure). I’m Republican, conservative. Etc. etc. There’s threats to me and my way of life that the far left seriously have, and nothing yall say here are changing my opinion on that (or removing said threats from me).
I would have preferred if the Republicans fielded Niki Haley, but apparently that was too hard for them too. So now I’m seeing who the Democrats want to field. Ideally someone I can vote for, because trust me, I don’t want to vote for Trump.
I promise you, there’s a ton of other people like me in the center who are thinking the same thing. The name-of-the-game is figuring out a candidate to keep enough of us voting Democrat this fall (not necessarily me, but hopefully enough to gain and counteract the loss of my vote).
I’m here to discuss my opinion with all of you openly, because I know that Lemmy leans so far left that yall are fucking nuts and need my opinion to tie you back down to where reality is. Believe it or not, I’m here to help, and that’s why we’re having this discussion right now at all.
This isn’t about just picking the most progressive candidate you can think of. Biden was the perfect choice for me and yall are now thinking of getting rid of him. Okay, so are you fine losing my vote? Or alternatively, do you think you can give me someone who is at least moderate enough (like Biden) to handle my concerns about the world? (IE: Ukraine and Taiwan in particular).
Alternatively, you can consider me to just be a nutcase and ignore me. But I don’t think that’s beneficial to you as a group either. Mostly because I know who the real nutcases are (ie: full on MAGA Trump supporters over there). I’m the one who have switched from Republican vote from 2008 / 2012 over to Democrat vote with the rise of Trump in 2016+, so I think I am actually an ideal case study for this discussion. That’s all.
So you’re going to kill this discussion with me just because you don’t like my opinion? Cool. Lets see how that plays out this year. Its a fucking election year, get used to hearing people’s opinions you don’t like.
People will vote one way or the other on this issue. With any luck the Democrats put a good moderate on board who can keep my vote (as well as the Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Georgia voters). Biden vs Trump already was looking sketchy before you progressives literally destroyed your best chance at beating Trump.
And suddenly, you’re blaming me for your own mistake… because I have the audacity to try to talk with you and share my opinion.
I’m sorry, that I’m not sorry.
In any case, Trump needs to be defeated, so I’m going to stay loud about my message. Yall progressives can’t Occupy Wall Street into Republican wins again this year. This is too important for me to stay silent. You fucking dumbasses are destroying your own election chances as we speak, and its best if I pointed out this before its too late. (And yall have done it before, and you’re doing it again).
If you really are going to switch candidates this late in the game, then for the love of god please put someone I can vote for (and other voters like me). That’s all I’m asking. Don’t lose the anti-Trump Republican vote over this self-defeating move you all seem intent upon inflicting upon yourselves. Please be at least a little bit politically expedient about the situation?
FYI: “Hey Fascist” is so passe it was in the Barbie last year. Its a bad argument now. Come up with a new one. You’ve been calling Republicans Fascists for 8 years now, the phrase has lost its effect. You’ll need to try harder if you actually want to convince people or surprise us.
No kidding, if y’all put Bernie in as Democrat pick I’m voting fucking Trump.
The other ones (Kamala, Buttigege and Newcom) I might be fine with. But 100% Bernie is far left bullshit I for one am not putting up with. And no, we ain’t gonna go with an even older candidate who is far more extreme.
EDIT: I’m a Republican. You have me on some candidates. Newcom is… a stretch but I can imagine myself voting for him vs Trump, but not much else. Kamala and Buttigege I can be fine with but I don’t think they can win Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan.
Bernie? He’s too far left and very extreme in my eyes. Bernie (and his cohort of Occupy Wall Street dumbasses) don’t even understand how the world works, how families react to some of these policies or whatever. It’d be an instant and immediate loss for the Democrats. Sorry to say. He’s so far left I personally need to vote against that. You’re going too far.
Just curious, what far left bullshit?
The Dem party platform apparently…
But PUMA didn’t stop Obama either.
No matter how loud “moderates” get, they’re a very small voting block. They’re just overrepresented in party leadership
He’s literally running as a socialist.
Free housing, free health care, free everything. It sounds good until you look at Venezuela.
When we point out… oh… I dunno… how Venezuela collapses because of government takeover as private entities or their other socialist policies (which directly have similarities to Bernie’s discussion points), yall just ignore us.
We’re seriously having issues coming up with a budget where Social Security does fine over the next 20 years, and Bernie over here is reaching to the far, far, far extreme and going “Not only Free Social Security, but Free Housing and Health Care on top of it”. Okaaaaaaayyyyyyy. Lets talk about the taxes needed to get that funded.
Hell, can we even start with the taxes we need to keep Social Security going?
And you can see the problem right after that. Bernie is fully unrealistic. Its the benefit of being on the flank, Bernie can promise the world because he doesn’t actually have to worry about the details of his proposals.
I wouldn’t pass on the free education, if I were you
Lets put it this way.
Do you know how Elon Musk tricks his dumbass followers that they’re all going to Mars? And its so ridiculous that no one actually seriously talks about the overall plan?
That’s Bernie Sanders. No one seriously debates him because its so far out. Seeing a couple of followers get strung up in Bernie’s moonshots is whatever, its going to happen. But nothing will come from it, and Bernie knows that. (Much like how Elon knows all the bullshit he spews is nothing either).
I get that its a popular way to get a niche following. But when we’re talking about a real Presidential candidate, hopes and dreams aren’t quite good enough. You’ll need to talk about things that are ya know, at least close to political reality.
Or if Elon Musk is a bad example, consider how the Abortion debate played out. Back 10 years ago, it wasn’t really a real discussion point. Today, it is, and now its suddenly a problem for Republicans because the implementation details of Abortion bans are really fucking stupid.
Same thing with Bernie. By the time Bernie is in office, its too late to realize that it was all bullshittery and the numbers simply don’t line up.
On healthcare: removing the profit incentives of private health insurance drives down costs as well as frees up money to pay for universal coverage. It’s not free Healthcare and has never been referred to as such unless people are debating in bad faith. He wrote the Medicare for All bill and just because you aren’t aware of the details doesn’t mean Sanders didn’t have them.
On housing: again calling it free housing is a disingenuous bait. His housing policy had so many facets that even if only half his proposals were put into place, it would do wonders to improve the situation for millions of Americans. Federal funding for expanding Community Land Trusts (if you don’t know what CLTs are you should look it up), combat gentrification/exclusionary zoning/segregation/speculation, expand the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund a fund that he was responsible for and fought for 15 years to become the first new federal affordable housing program funded in several decades, tenant protections like New York’s right to counsel that was created in 2017, which saw their eviction rates drop five times faster than comparable areas. God damn man I could keep going but if I haven’t made my point why waste the effort.
All of this could easily be paid by taxing the wealthy and reducing military spending. Would that be a problem for you?
The fuck do I hear Bernie saying “Medicare for All” ?
That’s literally free Healthcare as his top-of-the-line discussion point for the last decade.
Where does Ukraine and Taiwan fit in that reduced military spending?
Ah right, Bernie is also isolationist. He probably doesn’t give a shit. And even if we don’t support Israel (I know how the left feels about that), we the USA need to continue to patrol the Red Sea vs not just the Houthis, but also Somali Pirates and other threats.
Military spending is going up, by any realistic discussion. Ukraine is only heating up, and Taiwan is likely getting hotter and hotter as China literally cuts off Filipino fingers and uses them to bully others in the Far East. If yall think peace will happen by reducing US Military spending at this juncture, you’re losing my vote.
Bonus points: I’m also Filipino. So consider myself, and my family, very interested in hearing what the Democrats actually have to say about far-east stability / Taiwan / China’s increasingly aggressive actions.
Military spending is going up, and not because anyone wants war. But because its necessary to keep the peace. USA has no control over China or Russia, we only have control over our own spending. And we must keep our spending up with them as they get more aggressive.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/ Ah so you just keep your fingers in your ears. Got it.
Yeah, and Medicare / Social Security are already going bankrupt by 2040.
A gross expansion of those programs will make them go bankrupt even faster. You need to explain how to raise money for a “Medicare for All” program… and not just “Well fuck Taiwan / Phillipines / Far East / Ukraine / everyone else in the world”.
We’re going to have our hands full just keeping the programs available over the next few decades, and you want to expand them?
You’re either trolling or too stubborn to evaluate new information that might change your position.
Medicare For All is not free healthcare, as in on the government’s dime, it is entirely paid for by taxes. (Unless you actually object to free healthcare as in being able to go to the hospital when you need it for free, which is too ludicrous to be sincere.) The only reason it seems “free” is that the total operating cost of the system without the middleman of private insurance is significantly lower than our existing healthcare spending.
Most households would significantly increase their spending power throughout the year by eliminating healthcare premiums, deductibles, copays, and prescription costs in excess of $200 a year, and would only see a smaller increase at tax time. Those who would be paying more in total are very wealthy households who would be paying primarily at tax time, and frankly many of those households have not been paying their fair share of taxes already, so I find it hard to see that as a bad thing.
Yeah, no shit sherlock. Socialist / Communist countries like Cuba also pay for Health Care.
That doesn’t change the fact that several important examples (Soviet Union, Cuba, and now most recently, Venezuela) have collapsed… or are currently collapsing under that load and those costs.
We know plenty of examples of countries who have done that. My question is why the fuck do you want to bring it to the USA?
> picks vuvuzela as example
> conveniently overlooks hundreds of European and Asian “socialist” countries
> also overlooks merely redirecting 10% of defence budget to “socialism” will cure more of your cuntry’s ills
> also overlooks the MIC as the biggest “socialist” welfare queen program ever
Kys
If we nominate Bernie it’s not to win you over. It would win over leftists who otherwise wouldn’t vote Democrat.
No offense but I don’t actually believe that you are on the fence about whether or not you’ll vote for Trump.
Dude: Kamala is seen as too far left that she’s probably going to lose to Trump on a head-to-head matchup and you’re talking Bernie still.
Bro: You are voting fascist.
Ideally not.
Hopefully you can offer me a good enough candidate where I don’t feel like supporting the fascist. But if you go too far left, there’s a point where fascism doesn’t look as bad. No joke.
But the further left you go, the more points you lose out on me. I’m relatively religious (not the most compared to my family, but moreso than you guys I’m sure). I’m Republican, conservative. Etc. etc. There’s threats to me and my way of life that the far left seriously have, and nothing yall say here are changing my opinion on that (or removing said threats from me).
I would have preferred if the Republicans fielded Niki Haley, but apparently that was too hard for them too. So now I’m seeing who the Democrats want to field. Ideally someone I can vote for, because trust me, I don’t want to vote for Trump.
I promise you, there’s a ton of other people like me in the center who are thinking the same thing. The name-of-the-game is figuring out a candidate to keep enough of us voting Democrat this fall (not necessarily me, but hopefully enough to gain and counteract the loss of my vote).
I’m here to discuss my opinion with all of you openly, because I know that Lemmy leans so far left that yall are fucking nuts and need my opinion to tie you back down to where reality is. Believe it or not, I’m here to help, and that’s why we’re having this discussion right now at all.
This isn’t about just picking the most progressive candidate you can think of. Biden was the perfect choice for me and yall are now thinking of getting rid of him. Okay, so are you fine losing my vote? Or alternatively, do you think you can give me someone who is at least moderate enough (like Biden) to handle my concerns about the world? (IE: Ukraine and Taiwan in particular).
Alternatively, you can consider me to just be a nutcase and ignore me. But I don’t think that’s beneficial to you as a group either. Mostly because I know who the real nutcases are (ie: full on MAGA Trump supporters over there). I’m the one who have switched from Republican vote from 2008 / 2012 over to Democrat vote with the rise of Trump in 2016+, so I think I am actually an ideal case study for this discussion. That’s all.
You’ve already given up the benefit of the doubt by admitting you’d vote fascist. I simply don’t believe the honesty of your promises.
So you’re going to kill this discussion with me just because you don’t like my opinion? Cool. Lets see how that plays out this year. Its a fucking election year, get used to hearing people’s opinions you don’t like.
People will vote one way or the other on this issue. With any luck the Democrats put a good moderate on board who can keep my vote (as well as the Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Georgia voters). Biden vs Trump already was looking sketchy before you progressives literally destroyed your best chance at beating Trump.
And suddenly, you’re blaming me for your own mistake… because I have the audacity to try to talk with you and share my opinion.
I’m sorry, that I’m not sorry.
In any case, Trump needs to be defeated, so I’m going to stay loud about my message. Yall progressives can’t Occupy Wall Street into Republican wins again this year. This is too important for me to stay silent. You fucking dumbasses are destroying your own election chances as we speak, and its best if I pointed out this before its too late. (And yall have done it before, and you’re doing it again).
If you really are going to switch candidates this late in the game, then for the love of god please put someone I can vote for (and other voters like me). That’s all I’m asking. Don’t lose the anti-Trump Republican vote over this self-defeating move you all seem intent upon inflicting upon yourselves. Please be at least a little bit politically expedient about the situation?
FYI: “Hey Fascist” is so passe it was in the Barbie last year. Its a bad argument now. Come up with a new one. You’ve been calling Republicans Fascists for 8 years now, the phrase has lost its effect. You’ll need to try harder if you actually want to convince people or surprise us.
Being verbose won’t un-say it…
For fucks sake man, I’m here to try to help you beat Trump
You’re lucky I’m not easily discouraged. But your attitude about this is quite wrong.
Everyone else in this topic: you see the problem with your rhetoric or strategy yet? Let’s point out what does and doesn’t work here.