• cley_faye@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Great, another victory of people keeping IP in closed box away from the public at the small cost of culture disappearing.

  • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    That’s good. The internet is for advertiser’s and businesses. Its not for archives of information

  • yildolw@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    The Internet Archive picked a dumb fight that it couldn’t win. I want to donate money to the Wayback Machine, but I can’t because they’ll spend it appealing this stupid thing.

  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    Hopefully they have an offline backup in storage somewhere for when the current shitshow ends

    • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Well they have no reason to delete them as they “own” the copy they have. They just need to take them offline until they get through the appeal or lose and have to keep them on a p2p torrent aspect instead of through their site. That sucks

    • Colonel Panic@lemm.ee
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      5 days ago

      (Unplugs external drive)

      “I deleted them.”

      “You deleted all of them?”

      “Yep, not on the website anymore. See.”

      “Ok… Good… But I’m watching you.”

    • Agent641@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Ditto. I have everything from Apache web server guides to Apache helicopter service manuals.

    • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      Wouldn’t the attacks on openai be the same as these ones. Like if I was large media company wouldn’t I want my media to be vilifying AI because its the same principal and mechanism as training AI. They can kill two birds

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      No. That would involve the general public maintaining a consistent position.

      I want knowledge to be free. That means free. That means governments, businesses, NGOs, your local church sewing circle, AIs/LLMs, refugees living in tents, convicts, children, and any other humans or human organizations or anything humans built.

      I am willing to accept a LIMITED duration copyright and patent and private science publication system if it could be reformed such that it the brains behind it were paid and couldn’t legally sign away their compensation. Given that we as a society aren’t willing to build this the best course of action is to actively work to break copyright

  • NutWrench@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    There are a lot of books that are out of print, especially reference books. And if you look for them on Amazon or eBay, they’ve been snapped up by scalpers who are reselling them for obscene profit.

    Either make the books available for sale or quit complaining about “copyright infringement.” But whatever you do, quit hoarding knowledge like a dragon sitting on a pile of gold.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      6 days ago

      Exactly. Copyright should be nullified if there’s no longer first party sales.

      We should also go back to the original copyright duration: 14 years with an optional, one-time extension for an additional 14 years.

      • aliteral@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        If something does not sell anymore, automatically should go public domain or open source. Games, for example.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        6 days ago

        Copyright should be nullified if there’s no longer first party sales.

        Then everything created before now will compete with new copyrighted creations.

        In a lobbied environment such a thing can’t exist.

        Probably some elaborations about what exclusive rights can and can’t be should have been put into US constitution (because US is the main source of this particular problem, though, of course, it’ll be defended by interested parties in many other countries), but that was written a bit earlier than even electric telegraphy became a thing.

        They really couldn’t imagine trying to destroy\outlaw earlier better creations so that the garbage wouldn’t have competition. Printing industry back then did, of course, have weight in making laws, but not such an unbalanced one, because the middle class of that time wouldn’t consume as easily as in ours (one could visually differentiate members of that by normal shoes and clothes), and books were physical objects.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          6 days ago

          Yup, copyright wasn’t an issue because producing books was expensive enough to discourage copycats. The original copyright act I’m referring to was passed in 1790, which was actually passed a year before the Bill of Rights was ratified (you know, freedom of speech and all that). There was a lot of contention around the Bill of Rights, with many saying they were self-evident and didn’t need explicit protection, and I’m guessing the Copyright Act was similar in distinguishing what should be a regular law and what needs an amendment.

          It was probably discussed in the constitutional convention, but probably dismissed since the constitution was intended to define and restrict government, not define what citizens can and cannot do. I think that’s the appropriate scope as well, I’m just sad that we’ve let the laws get away from us.

          • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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            6 days ago

            I think that’s the appropriate scope as well, I’m just sad that we’ve let the laws get away from us.

            I don’t.

            You are right in the sense that it all comes down to the society having such laws or not having them (as in rioting till something changes?).

            But in the sense of forces nudging these laws in one or another direction, anything that causes a constant one-sided drift when left to usual laws should be moved to constitutional ones.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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              5 days ago

              The only difference in the US code vs the Constitution is the difficulty of passing or revoking them, and we’ve done both (alcohol prohibition). That cuts both ways. Progressives will decry the 2A, and conservatives seem to hate the 14A, and both seem to hate the 1A (at least the speech bit).

              What we should instead do is adjust the barrier to passing laws. It should reaquire 60% in the Senate to block a House bill, and it should pass with 40% support. Perhaps 60% should be required for the house as well, idk. There should also be limitations on the content of bills, so fewer omnibis bills and more smaller bills (one idea is to force legislators to swear under oath that they understand the bill). That should allow popular legislation to make it through easier.

              Regardless, we need to overhaul our IP laws and return them to their original purpose: helping smaller creators to compete against larger players.

              • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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                5 days ago

                There should also be limitations on the content of bills, so fewer omnibis bills and more smaller bills (one idea is to force legislators to swear under oath that they understand the bill). That should allow popular legislation to make it through easier.

                That is the hardest problem to solve fundamentally IMHO. The package bills.

                Which is why some people give up (or lose their mind) and become 'sovereign citizens" or ancaps.

  • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    You know, this thread really needs a list of of the publishers responsible for this travesty.

    “Publishers Hachette Book Group Inc, HarperCollins Publishers LLC, John Wiley & Sons Inc and Penguin Random House LLC” - According to Reuters

  • T156@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    The internet archive plans to appeal the ruling, so the fight is hardly over at this juncture.

    Would be interesting to see where it goes.

    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      We live in a system that monetizes everything, then seeks to restrict access to those things in order to profit.

      Knowledge is just one casualty.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Scarcity is money and if there is no scarcity laws will be bought to to artificially create said scarcity.

    • Zacryon@lemmy.wtf
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      6 days ago

      No one is preventing you from visiting a library, which would be a fesible alternative.

      However, not a simple solution for everyone in every country. Knowlegde should be a free and shared common good.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        6 days ago

        No one is preventing you from visiting a library, which would be a fesible alternative.

        actually blatantly wrong, public libraries are slowly dying and losing funding.

      • Disaster@sh.itjust.works
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        6 days ago

        Well, except scumbags like eric adams, NYC’s bought-owned-and-operated-by-real-estate-interests mayor.

      • 01011@monero.town
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        6 days ago

        That depends on where you live. The Internet Archive is far more accessible than a good library, for much of the global populace.

        • Zacryon@lemmy.wtf
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          6 days ago

          That depends on where you live.

          Yes, I know. That’s why I said:

          However, not a simple solution for everyone in every country.

          • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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            6 days ago

            It’s not even limited by country. There are far too many places in well resourced countries that don’t have access to good (or any) libraries.

      • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        6 days ago

        Libraries where good for before the XXI century. Nowadays the amount of content they had is pretty small. Most libraries don’t really has anything but the more famous books.

        • Akrenion@programming.dev
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          6 days ago

          They became community hubs that offer more than just books. Even ebooks albeit that being weirdly capped by publishers as well.

          They do much more than public opinion would make you believe.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            6 days ago

            True, but that doesn’t change the fact that specific books can be hard to find. Libraries are great, but they don’t solve the problem IA solves.

            • Akrenion@programming.dev
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              6 days ago

              We got a nationwide network of specific books. You can order books to your local library if you are a little patient. They might not have a lot of selfpublished books but that is a problem of scale and negotiating power of publishers.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                5 days ago

                That’s pretty sweet! I grew up in an area with a county system, so you could get books from anywhere in the system (a dozen or so citires serving >1M people).

                My current library is just our city, but I can go to a few other cities to check out books, but I can’t use holds there unless I pay $2-3/item to have it delivered to my library. We have a statewide ebook/audiobook network (serves 3-4M people), so that’s nice.