Ultimately this is how renewables win. Not because people are pushing for them, but because they’re cheaper and easier. In order to reach that point we do need a certain number of early adopters that are using renewables because it’s the right thing, but we’ll eventually hit a tipping point where it costs you more to use non-renewables and the migration becomes self-sustaining at that point.
Conservatives aren’t against solar, their politicians are paid to be so.
I’ve never lived anywhere more conservative, and I’m from Oklahoma. Solar is exploding everywhere. I’d bet there are 1,000+ acres of solar farm between my house and camp, all brand new. And more coming.
Doesn’t solar make your household independent from a big energy company? You would think conservatives in the sticks would especially appreciate renewable energy.
I understand it’s a costly upgrade but at the end they would get the independence of government that many of them claim to want. But I get your point, people will lack what they can’t afford.
It depends. There’s a lot of areas in coal country that are deeply conservative in part because conservative politicians promise to protect coal jobs and to disrupt renewables. That of course varies by location, but E.G. Texas which has a large oil company presence is going to have a lot of conservative voters who are anti-renewable because they’ve made their career working in the petroleum industry. So while not every conservative is going to be against solar, quite a lot of them are.
That can delay things, but ultimately it will be the US against the rest of the world and no amount of subsidies will be able to offset that. We’re already seeing the early stages of that with China having invested heavily in solar. Cheap Chinese made solar panels are starting to drive the cost of solar installs down and China is still ramping up. Between the public backlash against fossil fuels on one side, and increasing economic pressure on the other eventually they’ll cave and phase the subsidies out.
That can delay things, but ultimately it will be the US against the rest of the world and no amount of subsidies will be able to offset that.
Coal and nuke power company provider First Energy straight up bribed the Ohio Speaker of the house with $61 million to get legislation passed to force residential electricity customers to pay extra fees to subsidize unprofitable coal and nuclear power in the state. The former Speaker is in prison now. The extra fees are still being paid by customers even today. source
In Ohio this costs an average residential electricity customer $95/year they have to pay extra on top of their electrical bill.
Nuclear should be ran until EOL, then ideally built back up again
Arguably it has in Ohio. In 2002 a football sized hole was discovered in the top of pressure vessel eaten away by the caustic cooling water:
They bought a replacement from a mothballed nuke plant.
The plant was supposed to be EOL in 2017, but was extended to 2037.
At the same time Republican lawmakers in Ohio gave oil and gas companies full control over where wells are place, but put rules in allowing the blocking of solar and wind installations. source
Arguably it has in Ohio. In 2002 a football sized hole was discovered in the top of pressure vessel eaten away by the caustic cooling water:
nice.
The plant was supposed to be EOL in 2017, but was extended to 2037.
this was pretty common with 30 year EOL plants, being extended to 50 years, with extra maintenance. France has done this almost unilaterally, and skill issued pretty hard with maintenance as of recent, but that’s just a skill issue.
Ugh. I hate to say this, but the US is dumb enough to crash into the future hoping that other countries go renewable so oil is cheaper here. It’s too late anyway.
I just look at how Musk lied to the country about his hyperloop idea and Boring company to disrupt high speed rail’s new found interest a few years ago. He made a calculation and determined that it would cost XYZ to fake hyperloop investment on his part, but he and the fossil fuel industry would make significantly more on prolonged car dependence.
Edit: and on top of that, he absolutely got kick backs from the fossil fuel industry for doing it; derailing our high speed rail momentum.
There will always be holdouts though, I live in Missouri and I’m just waiting for the day my state legislature makes solar illegal. They’ll probably do it as soon as they finish up the last few human rights
They should target the windmills first. When I finish crying I like to have a good laugh about the quixotic irony of Republicans chasing after windmills.
Once we’ve exhausted that meme we can move on to blacken the sky memes.
Not because people are pushing for them, but because they’re cheaper and easier.
They’ve been cheaper and easier for some time. Wind power, in particular, was a profitable source of off-shore energy for decades. Electric cars and trams were actually superior to ICE engines from the late 19th century into the 1930s, and only lost market share thanks to a sudden drop in fuel prices.
A big part of our adherence to fossil fuels stemmed from political decision making. For residential energy demands, renewables have always been superior. But for military technology, ICE engines remained essential. That made the Middle East a nexus of post-WW2 conflicts and the Petro-Dollar a pivotal tool for western politicking in the region.
What we had in the 1950s and 60s was an artificial petroleum glut, relative to demand, created by our military presence on the Saudi peninsula. And what we’ve continued to enjoy into the modern day is an artificially cheap fossil fuel market.
we’ll eventually hit a tipping point where it costs you more to use non-renewables and the migration becomes self-sustaining at that point.
That hinges on the theory that American domestic economic interests start guiding our energy policy. I don’t see any evidence to support this in practice. I suspect the US will continue to cling to fossil fuels well after the rest of the world has pivoted away, entirely because our military industrial complex demands it.
The only reason I haven’t seriously considered solar in the past is because I couldn’t justify paying more for electricity even though it’s the undeniably right thing to do. I am very climate conscious but I just couldn’t afford it.
But like you said, we’ve reached that point and getting solar quotes will be one of the first things I do when I move even if it just means breaking even.
Ultimately this is how renewables win. Not because people are pushing for them, but because they’re cheaper and easier. In order to reach that point we do need a certain number of early adopters that are using renewables because it’s the right thing, but we’ll eventually hit a tipping point where it costs you more to use non-renewables and the migration becomes self-sustaining at that point.
The day one of my ultraconservative brothers-in-law installed solar panels was the day I knew renewables had already won.
Conservatives aren’t against solar, their politicians are paid to be so.
I’ve never lived anywhere more conservative, and I’m from Oklahoma. Solar is exploding everywhere. I’d bet there are 1,000+ acres of solar farm between my house and camp, all brand new. And more coming.
Doesn’t solar make your household independent from a big energy company? You would think conservatives in the sticks would especially appreciate renewable energy.
Only with batteries. Batteries often cost as much as the entire solar panel install.
I understand it’s a costly upgrade but at the end they would get the independence of government that many of them claim to want. But I get your point, people will lack what they can’t afford.
It depends. There’s a lot of areas in coal country that are deeply conservative in part because conservative politicians promise to protect coal jobs and to disrupt renewables. That of course varies by location, but E.G. Texas which has a large oil company presence is going to have a lot of conservative voters who are anti-renewable because they’ve made their career working in the petroleum industry. So while not every conservative is going to be against solar, quite a lot of them are.
Except for government subsidies for fossil fuels, lobbied for by the fossil fuel industry.
That can delay things, but ultimately it will be the US against the rest of the world and no amount of subsidies will be able to offset that. We’re already seeing the early stages of that with China having invested heavily in solar. Cheap Chinese made solar panels are starting to drive the cost of solar installs down and China is still ramping up. Between the public backlash against fossil fuels on one side, and increasing economic pressure on the other eventually they’ll cave and phase the subsidies out.
Coal and nuke power company provider First Energy straight up bribed the Ohio Speaker of the house with $61 million to get legislation passed to force residential electricity customers to pay extra fees to subsidize unprofitable coal and nuclear power in the state. The former Speaker is in prison now. The extra fees are still being paid by customers even today. source
i’d be ok with paying those costs for nuclear. Not for coal.
Nuclear should be ran until EOL, then ideally built back up again (but that’s not happening unfortunately)
In Ohio this costs an average residential electricity customer $95/year they have to pay extra on top of their electrical bill.
Arguably it has in Ohio. In 2002 a football sized hole was discovered in the top of pressure vessel eaten away by the caustic cooling water:
They bought a replacement from a mothballed nuke plant.
The plant was supposed to be EOL in 2017, but was extended to 2037.
At the same time Republican lawmakers in Ohio gave oil and gas companies full control over where wells are place, but put rules in allowing the blocking of solar and wind installations. source
nice.
this was pretty common with 30 year EOL plants, being extended to 50 years, with extra maintenance. France has done this almost unilaterally, and skill issued pretty hard with maintenance as of recent, but that’s just a skill issue.
Ugh. I hate to say this, but the US is dumb enough to crash into the future hoping that other countries go renewable so oil is cheaper here. It’s too late anyway.
CLEAN COAL BABY, IT’S ALL ABOUT LYING TO THE PUBLIC AND JUST PRODUCING DIRTY POWER INSTEAD, GET FUCKED STUPID VOTERS.
Is how i like to imagine most of the fossil fuel industry sounds.
I just look at how Musk lied to the country about his hyperloop idea and Boring company to disrupt high speed rail’s new found interest a few years ago. He made a calculation and determined that it would cost XYZ to fake hyperloop investment on his part, but he and the fossil fuel industry would make significantly more on prolonged car dependence.
Edit: and on top of that, he absolutely got kick backs from the fossil fuel industry for doing it; derailing our high speed rail momentum.
There will always be holdouts though, I live in Missouri and I’m just waiting for the day my state legislature makes solar illegal. They’ll probably do it as soon as they finish up the last few human rights
They should target the windmills first. When I finish crying I like to have a good laugh about the quixotic irony of Republicans chasing after windmills. Once we’ve exhausted that meme we can move on to blacken the sky memes.
They’ve been cheaper and easier for some time. Wind power, in particular, was a profitable source of off-shore energy for decades. Electric cars and trams were actually superior to ICE engines from the late 19th century into the 1930s, and only lost market share thanks to a sudden drop in fuel prices.
A big part of our adherence to fossil fuels stemmed from political decision making. For residential energy demands, renewables have always been superior. But for military technology, ICE engines remained essential. That made the Middle East a nexus of post-WW2 conflicts and the Petro-Dollar a pivotal tool for western politicking in the region.
What we had in the 1950s and 60s was an artificial petroleum glut, relative to demand, created by our military presence on the Saudi peninsula. And what we’ve continued to enjoy into the modern day is an artificially cheap fossil fuel market.
That hinges on the theory that American domestic economic interests start guiding our energy policy. I don’t see any evidence to support this in practice. I suspect the US will continue to cling to fossil fuels well after the rest of the world has pivoted away, entirely because our military industrial complex demands it.
The only reason I haven’t seriously considered solar in the past is because I couldn’t justify paying more for electricity even though it’s the undeniably right thing to do. I am very climate conscious but I just couldn’t afford it.
But like you said, we’ve reached that point and getting solar quotes will be one of the first things I do when I move even if it just means breaking even.