- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/20086798
During 2013–2017, casualty rates per 100 million miles were 5.16 (95% CI 4.92 to 5.42) for E- HE vehicles and 2.40 (95%CI 2.38 to 2.41) for ICE vehicles, indicating that collisions were twice as likely (RR 2.15; 95% CI 2.05 to 2.26) with E-HE vehicles. Poisson regression found no evidence that E-HE vehicles were more dangerous in rural environments (RR 0.91; 95% CI 0.74 to 1.11); but strong evidence that E-HE vehicles were three times more dangerous than ICE vehicles in urban environments (RR 2.97; 95% CI 2.41 to 3.7). Sensitivity analyses of missing data support main findings.
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The most fun way to solve this problem is to give EVs huge subwoofers and make them play funky ass beats in pedestrian areas.
Pedestrians are faced with a choice: Funky-ass beats or funky ass-beats!
XKCD 37
Already the case in europe. There are fake motor noise loud speakers to make evs noticable.
This is also true in the US since being phased in from 2019-2020. All new models since that time have low speed warning sound requirements.
Because of how much quieter they are?
One plausible explanation for our results is that background ambient noise levels differ between urban and rural areas, causing electric vehicles to be less audible to pedestrians in urban areas. Such differences may impact on safety because pedestrians usually hear traffic approaching and take care to avoid any collision, which is more difficult if they do not hear electric vehicles.
That doesn’t make much sense. ICE vehicles have got so quiet, especially at low speeds, that most of the noise is tyre noise.
There were far fewer models of electric and and h-ev cars being available during the time of they’ve taken their data from (7 to 11 years ago now) than ICE and even compared to how many there are now. Therefore it’s entirely possible that an issue with a particular model (for example visibility issues caused by a pillar blindspots) could skew the results.
It would be interesting to see if they can get the same results with 2019-2024 data.
That doesn’t make much sense. ICE vehicles have got so quiet, especially at low speeds, that most of the noise is tyre noise.
What doesn’t make sense? The point that you just stated was precisely the motivation for the study — there was a concern that EVs and H-EVs are too quiet to be safely perceived by pedestrians.
There were far fewer models of electric and and h-ev cars being available during the time of they’ve taken their data from (7 to 11 years ago now) than ICE and even compared to how many there are now. Therefore it’s entirely possible that an issue with a particular model (for example visibility issues caused by a pillar blindspots) could skew the results.
In the “Strengths and weaknesses of the study” section of the paper, they touched on the age of the data being a weakness. In addition to the concern that you pointed out, there are also new regulations that have been put in place to mitigate these issues — e.g. the NHTSA mandates that cars have a minimum amount of sound that they must emit [source].
It would be interesting to see if they can get the same results with 2019-2024 data.
Agreed.
This is why I want an electric car that makes a jet turbine noise like the cars do in sci-fi movies.
EVs being quieter than ICE cars is a blessing imho. I’m not completely against having them emit additional sound for safety but please let it still be quieter than an ICE.
So you don’t want a 126db electric car?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/17/business/dodge-electric-muscle-car/index.html
Anecdotally, I’ve heard some newer EVs emit a sort of whirring sound when they are moving slowly to alert pedestrians.
It’s mandatory in the US but they all make various weird noises that don’t sound like cars.
So it is! [source]
Note that is 2016.
I have a Hybrid built before 2016 that plays no noise. We are out there… lurking, sneaking, ready to pounce.
I have heard this as well. IMO it’s much too quiet still. I want like, an actual jet engine whine but at maybe 65-70 decibels.
No thanks, electric vehicles being quiet is a bonus.
Now if they had the forward sensors made a moderate lebel honking noise when a potential collision with a oedestrian is detected, that would be great.
No thanks, electric vehicles being quiet is a bonus.
Now if they had the forward sensors made a moderate lebel honking noise when a potential collision with a oedestrian is detected, that would be great.
Personally, I’m not bothered by the sounds that EVs emit at slow speeds (the minimum sound is required by the NHTSA) — I think they even sound kind of cool. I do agree that collision detection is also useful. I would argue for a combination of mulitple safety systems. That being said, I do completely understand the noise pollution concerns of vehicles; however, given that the sounds are only emited at very low speeds — IIUC, these sounds are intended match the sound pressure generated by a vehicle travelling at 30kmph — it shouldn’t be too much of a problem; I believe that it is worth the benefit.
Put a bell on them, works for cats.
I’ve never been struck by a cat in a crosswalk so this suggestion checks out.
Some newer ones do emit a sound when moving slow. I’ve never looked into it to find their actual rationale — I’ve always presumed that it was for pedestrian safety.
Damn that is a huge effect size… I am shocked, especially given safety features that now exist on newer cars (unless they normalized for car age).
I’m not shocked at all. I’ve almost been hit like 3 times in parking lots by silent EVs.
As a pedestrian, I was certainly unaware at how much I relied on my hearing to generate my situational awareness around cars. Each time, the driver wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary, either.
Honestly, as the pedestrian in this scenario, I’d rather the vehicle cue me on where it is and what it’s doing than give the driver another sensor to ignore. Give me as the pedestrian some tools to work with. Let me be involved.
It doesn’t have to be as loud as a big diesel truck. A ford focus is fine.
especially given safety features that now exist on newer cars
Do note that the dataset that they used is from 2013-2017.
Interesting. When did they start adding noise to low speed EVs? I wonder how this analysis would look for newer vehicles.
Ok, so when I am driving my 2021 Seat Leon FR PHEV at slow speed in a quiet neighbourhood, I should roll down my windows, turn up the volume and start pumping Scooter?
I can do that…
It’s called driving safely and you should already be doing that
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Extremely misleading title there, OP
More pedestrians are injured in Great Britain by petrol and diesel cars than by electric cars, but compared with petrol and diesel cars, electric cars pose a greater risk to pedestrians and the risk is greater in urban environments. One plausible explanation for our results is that background ambient noise levels differ between urban and rural areas, causing electric vehicles to be less audible to pedestrians in urban areas
I don’t quite understand what’s misleading in my title, given that quote. Would you mind elaborating?
They are responding to what they think the title is implying instead of what is says.
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Your title
impliessays that people are more likely to be hit by an EV than an ICE. That is factually incorrect as there are more ICE cars on the roadYour title says that people are more likely to be hit by an EV than an ICE.
No it doesn’t. It says that EVs and H-EVs are more likely to hit a pedestrian than ICEs. That doesn’t necessitate that more people are hit by EVs than ICEs. A reason for this potentially being that there are more ICE vehicles than EVs and H-EVs.
