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Cake day: June 4th, 2023

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  • Decimal notation is a number system where fractions are accomodated with more numbers represeting smaller more precise parts. It is an extension of the place value system where very large tallies can be expressed in a much simpler form.

    One of the core rules of this system is how to handle values larger than the highest digit, and lower than the smallest. If any place goes above 9, set that place to 0 and increment the next place by 1. If any places goes below 0, increment the place by (10) and decrement the next place by one (this operation uses a non-existent digit, which is also a common sticking point).

    This is the decimal system as it is taught originally. One of the consequences of it’s rules is that each digit-wise operation must be performed in order, with a beginning and an end. Thus even getting a repeating decimal is going beyond the system. This is usually taught as special handling, and sometimes as baby’s first limit (each step down results in the same digit, thus it’s that digit all the way down).

    The issue happens when digit-wise calculation is applied to infinite decimals. For most operations, it’s fine, but incrementing up can only begin if a digit goes beyong 9, which never happens in the case of 0.999… . Understanding how to resolve this requires ditching the digit-wise method and relearing decimals and a series of terms, and then learning about infinite series. It’s a much more robust and applicable method, but a very different method to what decimals are taught as.

    Thus I say that the original bitwise method of decimals has a bug in the case of incrementing infinite sequences. There’s really only one number where this is an issue, but telling people they’re wrong for using the tools as they’ve been taught isn’t helpful. Much better to say that the tool they’re using is limited in this way, then showing the more advanced method.

    That’s how we teach Newtonian Gravity and then expand to Relativity. You aren’t wrong for applying newtonian gravity to mercury, but the tool you’re using is limited. All models are wrong, but some are useful.


  • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.catoScience Memes@mander.xyzI just cited myself.
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    4 hours ago

    Any my argument is that 3 ≠ 0.333…

    We’re taught about the decimal system by manipulating whole number representations of fractions, but when that method fails, we get told that we are wrong.

    In chemistry, we’re taught about atoms by manipulating little rings of electrons, and when that system fails to explain bond angles and excitation, we’re told the model is wrong, but still useful.

    This is my issue with the debate. Someone uses decimals as they were taught and everyone piles on saying they’re wrong instead of explaining the limitations of systems and why we still use them.

    For the record, my favorite demonstration is useing different bases.

    In base 10: 1/3 0.333… 0.333… × 3 = 0.999…

    In base 12: 1/3 = 0.4 0.4 × 3 = 1

    The issue only appears if you resort to infinite decimals. If you instead change your base, everything works fine. Of course the only base where every whole fraction fits nicely is unary, and there’s some very good reasons we don’t use tally marks much anymore, and it has nothing to do with math.


  • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.catoScience Memes@mander.xyzI just cited myself.
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    4 hours ago

    Eh, if you need special rules for 0.999… because the special rules for all other repeating decimals failed, I think we should just accept that the system doesn’t work here. We can keep using the workaround, but stop telling people they’re wrong for using the system correctly.

    The deeper understanding of numbers where 0.999… = 1 is obvious needs a foundation of much more advanced math than just decimals, at which point decimals stop being a system and are just a quirky representation.

    Saying decimals are a perfect system is the issue I have here, and I don’t think this will go away any time soon. Mathematicians like to speak in absolutely terms where everything is either perfect or discarded, yet decimals seem to be too simple and basal to get that treatment. No one seems to be willing to admit the limitations of the system.





  • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.catoScience Memes@mander.xyzI just cited myself.
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    5 hours ago

    I strongly agree with you, and while the people replying aren’t wrong, they’re arguing for something that I don’t think you said.

    1/3 ≈ 0.333… in the same way that approximating a circle with polygons of increasing side number has a limit of a circle, but will never yeild a circle with just geometry.

    0.999… ≈ 1 in the same way that shuffling infinite people around an infinite hotel leaves infinite free rooms, but if you try to do the paperwork, no one will ever get anywhere.

    Decimals require you to check the end of the number to see if you can round up, but there never will be an end. Thus we need higher mathematics to avoid the halting problem. People get taught how decimals work, find this bug, and then instead of being told how decimals are broken, get told how they’re wrong for using the tools they’ve been taught.

    If we just accept that decimals fail with infinite steps, the transition to new tools would be so much easier, and reflect the same transition into new tools in other sciences. Like Bohr’s Atom, Newton’s Gravity, Linnaean Taxonomy, or Comte’s Positivism.


  • Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.catoScience Memes@mander.xyzI just cited myself.
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    6 hours ago

    The rules of decimal notation don’t sipport infinite decimals properly. In order for a 9 to roll over into a 10, the next smallest decimal needs to roll over first, therefore an infinite string of anything will never resolve the needed discrete increment.

    Thus, all arguments that 0.999… = 1 must use algebra, limits, or some other logic beyond decimal notation. I consider this a bug with decimals, and 0.999… = 1 to be a workaround.


  • Eh, i wouldn’t call that freeform building and exploring. Rather unconstrained base building, sure, and open world exploration, but you can’t disassemble the boss dungeon and rebuild it as a boat in hell. You can’t automatically kill enemies in a pit of lava. There’s no getting lost in your own mess of tunnels. And no one is making a working GPU out of Pals.




  • Spinks has credited Minecraft as direct inspiration. Terraria was first released among the gobs and gobs of minecraft clones, yet it was obvious that Terraria wasn’t a clone.

    As for “Full Release”, Terraria was first released as a fully working game, with it’s 1.0 being the first public release in May 2011. Minecraft 1.0.0 was November 2011. Minecraft’s first public release was Classic 0.0.11a in May 2009.







  • They’re also incentivized to keep the same size packaging (both for logistical and public perveption reasons) and ship less product in those packages. People are willing to pay $6 for a big bag of chips, despite the big bag weighing 150g less than the normal bag 5 years ago.

    They don’t get paid by the gram, they get paid by the bag. A bigger bag looks more impressive, and thus can be sold for more. Same for those tall skinny beverage cans. They look bigger than the regular cans, but are actually 25ml smaller, and yet go for a similar price.

    This will continue until the price per gram is what people look for (emphasis on this at the point of sale would help), or the mass of each product is standardized. 50g, 100g, 200g, 350g, 500g, 750g, and whole kg sizes only, none of this 489g nonsense.



  • Gonggong is named after a Chinese water god, and it does indeed have it’s own ice. It’s also red, covered in thiolins like Pluto, but even moreso. There’s also likely a thin methane exosphere, leaving methane frost on windows.

    Gonggong is very far out, moving between 33 and 101 AU over it’s 554 year orbit. It orbits at a 30° inclination, so telescopes would pick up some interesting shots of the other planets poles.

    The 1/30 g gravity is nothing special, plenty to jump around in, but enough to not fly away easily. It’s slightly flattened by it’s rotation, which is a nice 22 hours, much slower than other trans-neptunian bodies. This slow rotation is caused by tidal forces between it and it’s moon Xiangilu.

    Xiangilu is named for Gonggong’s minister, a nine headed venomous snake monster. It orbits every 25 days, nearly exactly a month like Earth’s moon, but in an eccentric orbit, changing size throut the month. Gonggong has a polar orientation like Uranus as well, leaving Xiangilu a constant half-moon in the dim sky half the year. Sadly eclipses would be very rare.

    The trip out there is rather long, but once there it seems quite unique and cozy.