Can confirm.

Source: is goat.

I think that if you don’t have a phylogenetically (history of species) and ontogenetically (development of individual) sensible approach to consciousness, how it evolved, and how it develops… then you are shouting at ghosts.

This is the most cogent and satisfying account I’ve found:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36937548/

Hope it’s ok to share sus dropbox link?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/niz2t7kzl0av4wp9nqw2r/a-biphasic-relational-approach-to-the-evolution-of-human-consciousness-un-enfoque-relacional-bifasico-para-la-evolucion-de-la-conciencia-humana.pdf?dl=0&rlkey=x0mapqjo4ohzbbw2w5rigtzw3

[edit] There is a whiff of ableism when the authors discuss extensions of their model to “developmentally delayed” children. I think they are mistaken here; and I don’t think this mistake undermines the core argument.

In other words, I think it’s easy to take the core argument and use it in a neurodiversity affirming (even celebrating!) way.

But just a heads up that most folks here interested in science and philosophy, I imagine, will delight in 97% of this, and cringe / get pissed off at 3%.

At least that’s my reading.

Maybe it would be useful to think of learning the skill of socializing while anxious as a little like learning the skill of ice skating.

Can you teach yourself ice skating from scratch? Maybe, it’s possible to just use pure trial and error and figure it out for yourself with no guidance or feedback. It might become frustrating and the temptation might be to give up because it seems impossible, and takes forever to even get the basics down, if that ever happens at all.

But what if you had an ice skating manual and youtube videos? Probably better than purely figuring it out on your own. But what if you have a question in the moment as you are, for example, trying to skate backwards? How should your left leg move if you have a soar right knee, or what happens if you keep spinning to the left whenever you try to turn right, or your ankles are soar after every practice and you aren’t sure if the type of skates you bought are really the best for your own body, experience, and needs?

If these questions arise, you could read the manual, go on youtube, ask the community. But then there are different opinions, bias, misinformation. Who to trust? How many hours do you want to spend researching a question when an expert could tell you there in the moment in like 2 seconds? What if you have 25 questions? How many days and weeks of research is that? Or could an expert answer all of them in like half an hour?

So skating coaches are not mandatory, but very strongly encouraged ;)

!TheyKnew

Yes! Mine is like “big question” stuff. Philosophy, religion, psychology, etc.

There’s an inexhaustible amount of ideas to explore, so there is some variability. But as much as I read, I have not read fiction in like 20 years. No other hobbies, etc.

Luckily I found my way to psychology so I can practice in that area (mainly with struggles I have been through from the inside-out) and even provide “consultation,” i.e. getting paid to have a willingly captive audience listen to me info-dump about my special interest.

Mu hu ha ha ha.

One option might be finding a neurodiversity-celebrating (or at least affirming) therapist who does “exposure therapy” for social anxiety, and who has experience with autistic clients.

The general idea of exposure therapy is that no amount of learning without practice, and no amount of practice while NOT feeling anxious, will translate to successful performance WHILE ANXIOUS.

The evidence base is robust.

So, paradoxically, the goal is to get uncomfortable on purpose and practice socializing in that state. In small doses, with guidance (at least at first).

The first benefit is that you can socialize more even when anxious and overwhelmed… and EVENTUALLY (don’t expect immediate results) your nervous system will get the hint that socializing while anxious is ok… and then it might let you off the hook, i.e. stop making you feel so anxious.

Source: I’m a ND therapist who specializes in helping autistic clients with OCD/anxiety.

I wonder if having so many options (even bad options) publicized might not be a bad thing.

(1) It at least stalls off the reddit hug of death for better options.

(2) Some of the bad options might work better than expected.

(3) People on the bad options will talk about better options.

(4) The better options will slowly gain steam based on word of mouth etc.

Do we want a mass migration or a slow sustained one?

(5) Given that it takes a little digging, poking, and experimenting to figure things out, it may be the case that, at least at first, the better options are populated with more careful and thoughtful people?

Just speculating.

And, ya, SOMEONE should make a more concise and workable list to disseminate.

Good news everyone!

So nostalgic for my first i-touch needlessly jailbroken with a few dozen pirated albums on repeat!

I feel nostalgic in advance for having stumbled on an inside joke that I was almost around early enough to be on the inside of but can nevertheless clearly project myself there.

Thanks!