The governors of Pennsylvania, Oklahoma and Virginia wrote a letter Tuesday asking the territory to show mercy to the Americans arrested on the island.
I mean, you’re travelling internationally, check your damn bag. You think if a couple of Turkish dudes got caught with ammo in their luggage they’d do great in the states? Don’t like getting in trouble overseas? Don’t break the laws overseas.
I think getting smacked with a cane for smoking weed is dumb. Still won’t catch me with weed in Singapore though. Best believe I triple checked my bags when I left Europe too.
Yeah the hypocrisy of the US government is the glaring thing here. Do as I say, not as I do. The US holds black children in prison for life for some marijuana, or random internationals in Guantanamo for decades. The projection is central.
I absolutely agree that they should have been more careful. But justice is justice. . .so do you believe they deserve to do jail time for being stupid/careless when presumably no one was harmed?
My point is being ignorant is insufficient a defence for these type of offences. My opinion of whether they “deserve” it isn’t really relevant. The law is the law. If I get fucked up and drove; I could claim it was a stupid mistake and no one was harmed if I got pulled over and arrested. That doesn’t really matter and isn’t why it’s a law. I believe they should be charged and given lighter sentences and/or the US should apply for clemency on their behalf but my point remains it’s the discretion of local law enforcement.
My point is being ignorant is insufficient a defence for these type of offences.
Well you neither said this, and it was in response to someone explaining that they shouldnt be punished because it was an accident and thus a victimless crime.
And this whole thing is about us leaders lobbying to go easy on these people, so I hope you see why I didn’t realize what you were actually supposedly arguing.
Of course it is up to local law enforcement. I’ve seen no one argue or suggest otherwise.
Well you neither said this, and it was in response to someone explaining that they shouldnt be punished because it was an accident and thus a victimless crime.
It’s implied with my previous remarks. It being an accident/mistake is synonymous with pleading ignorance in this instance.
Of course it is up to local law enforcement. I’ve seen no one argue or suggest otherwise.
People saying it’s harmless or a simple mistake are actively undermining local law enforcement whether they know it or not. I’ve seen this countless times before. People get charged with crimes overseas, some that perhaps they wouldn’t at home. Then rather it being a simple matter of if said person did what they’re accused of doing it becomes “oh this countries law are ridiculous, this person simply didn’t know, local law enforcement is corrupt” and so on. Whatever it takes to remove accountability of the person and blame the host country or its law enforcement either directly or indirectly.
I guess what I’m arguing is if you can’t check your bags, read a foreign travel advisory or even pay attention to intercom announcements while you touch down; don’t come crying foul play to the consulate with your drug charge expecting to get a clemency plea. Just to be oddly specific.
I don’t really follow your point. All we’re doing here is pointing out how ridiculous it is that someone might spend a decade in prison for accidentally having 2 bullets in their bag and how much a travesty of justice it is.
Everyone agrees, be careful and don’t break the law especially in a foreign country. These people were dumb for not being careful.
But the law is blatantly unjust. They made a mistake. What does sending them to prison for 10 years do? I’m pretty sure these people won’t ever even travel to t&c again, and if they do they will triple check their bags. No prison time necessary, the point has been driven home I’m sure.
And plus this is not what the law is targeting, it is about gang violence. It’s not even in the spirit of the law.
You really want these people to spend ten years in prison for no reason at all strictly because they broke the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit. Why?
Victimless crime. Who says they’re not smuggling ammo into the country to use for criminal activity? You only need to fire a single bullet to kill someone.
It’s more than correct that they’re detained and go to trial. I don’t think anyone is actually sentenced yet?
I also assume 12 years is the upper limit for possession here.
Also it was leaving the country to fly to the U.S. where they could purchase it again legally, so not much of a reason to give them 12 years of prison. (Note: if they were bringing guns and cases of ammo it’s another story, but 2 loose rounds without a gun, a knife is a much bigger threat)
Who says they’re not smuggling ammo into the country to use for criminal activity? You only need to fire a single bullet to kill someone.
The woman in question was traveling with her daughter, and was caught with 2 rounds of ammo in her bag when leaving the country. If you are trying to smuggle it in, why are you bringing it back out?
But if they can prove that she was trying to smuggle ammo into the country, what the law was meant for, then yes please let her burn. But “she might have been, so it’s fine she is doing prison time despite it almost certainly just being a dumb mistake” doesn’t sit well with me at all. I don’t believe it It should sit well with anyone who claims to care about justice.
I also assume 12 years is the upper limit for possession here.
You really think someone should do prison time for making a mistake that didn’t even hurt anyone?
Fucks sake. Why should they.
It’s literally a victimless crime committed unintentionally. Most people oppose 12-year prison sentences for harmless accidents.
I mean, you’re travelling internationally, check your damn bag. You think if a couple of Turkish dudes got caught with ammo in their luggage they’d do great in the states? Don’t like getting in trouble overseas? Don’t break the laws overseas.
I think getting smacked with a cane for smoking weed is dumb. Still won’t catch me with weed in Singapore though. Best believe I triple checked my bags when I left Europe too.
Yeah the hypocrisy of the US government is the glaring thing here. Do as I say, not as I do. The US holds black children in prison for life for some marijuana, or random internationals in Guantanamo for decades. The projection is central.
I absolutely agree that they should have been more careful. But justice is justice. . .so do you believe they deserve to do jail time for being stupid/careless when presumably no one was harmed?
My point is being ignorant is insufficient a defence for these type of offences. My opinion of whether they “deserve” it isn’t really relevant. The law is the law. If I get fucked up and drove; I could claim it was a stupid mistake and no one was harmed if I got pulled over and arrested. That doesn’t really matter and isn’t why it’s a law. I believe they should be charged and given lighter sentences and/or the US should apply for clemency on their behalf but my point remains it’s the discretion of local law enforcement.
Well you neither said this, and it was in response to someone explaining that they shouldnt be punished because it was an accident and thus a victimless crime.
And this whole thing is about us leaders lobbying to go easy on these people, so I hope you see why I didn’t realize what you were actually supposedly arguing.
Of course it is up to local law enforcement. I’ve seen no one argue or suggest otherwise.
It’s implied with my previous remarks. It being an accident/mistake is synonymous with pleading ignorance in this instance.
People saying it’s harmless or a simple mistake are actively undermining local law enforcement whether they know it or not. I’ve seen this countless times before. People get charged with crimes overseas, some that perhaps they wouldn’t at home. Then rather it being a simple matter of if said person did what they’re accused of doing it becomes “oh this countries law are ridiculous, this person simply didn’t know, local law enforcement is corrupt” and so on. Whatever it takes to remove accountability of the person and blame the host country or its law enforcement either directly or indirectly.
I guess what I’m arguing is if you can’t check your bags, read a foreign travel advisory or even pay attention to intercom announcements while you touch down; don’t come crying foul play to the consulate with your drug charge expecting to get a clemency plea. Just to be oddly specific.
I don’t really follow your point. All we’re doing here is pointing out how ridiculous it is that someone might spend a decade in prison for accidentally having 2 bullets in their bag and how much a travesty of justice it is.
Everyone agrees, be careful and don’t break the law especially in a foreign country. These people were dumb for not being careful.
But the law is blatantly unjust. They made a mistake. What does sending them to prison for 10 years do? I’m pretty sure these people won’t ever even travel to t&c again, and if they do they will triple check their bags. No prison time necessary, the point has been driven home I’m sure.
And plus this is not what the law is targeting, it is about gang violence. It’s not even in the spirit of the law.
You really want these people to spend ten years in prison for no reason at all strictly because they broke the letter of the law, but certainly not the spirit. Why?
Victimless crime. Who says they’re not smuggling ammo into the country to use for criminal activity? You only need to fire a single bullet to kill someone.
It’s more than correct that they’re detained and go to trial. I don’t think anyone is actually sentenced yet?
I also assume 12 years is the upper limit for possession here.
It was two rounds of loose hunting ammo. If you can kill someone with two rounds of ammo and no gun you can kill someone without two rounds of ammo…
Also it was leaving the country to fly to the U.S. where they could purchase it again legally, so not much of a reason to give them 12 years of prison. (Note: if they were bringing guns and cases of ammo it’s another story, but 2 loose rounds without a gun, a knife is a much bigger threat)
The woman in question was traveling with her daughter, and was caught with 2 rounds of ammo in her bag when leaving the country. If you are trying to smuggle it in, why are you bringing it back out?
But if they can prove that she was trying to smuggle ammo into the country, what the law was meant for, then yes please let her burn. But “she might have been, so it’s fine she is doing prison time despite it almost certainly just being a dumb mistake” doesn’t sit well with me at all. I don’t believe it It should sit well with anyone who claims to care about justice.
You really think someone should do prison time for making a mistake that didn’t even hurt anyone?