Full post on Reddit. Final paragraphs:
And I know that sounds bad. I know! I know this basically all sounds like “you prefer 5E to these other games because you have to actually try to play them?” But the answer is actually yeah, exactly! It’s not that I’m checked out on my phone or something, but I’ve learned I’m not actually interested in thinking too much about my part at the table. I think being there at game night with friends is fun, but I mostly just want to be along for the ride until it’s time to roll some dice to hit something and let the other players figure out what to do otherwise, maybe get in some banter-in character in between encounters, and chill. In everything else I’ve played, I’m dead weight if I’m not actively participating. In 5E, I can just kind of vibe until it’s time to roll to unlock a door or stab someone, and I’m not penalized for doing that. The game is neither loose enough that it needs my constant input outside of combat, nor complex enough to need any serious tactical decisions. That’s a very comfortable spot for me!
So yeah. I imagine there’s a lot of players who would prefer other systems if they tried them, but I’m not one of them. And I imagine there’s actually a lot more people like me at tables than you’d expect! Hopefully this gives some insight into why someone would still prefer 5E over everything else, even after giving a lot of other games a shot. Thanks for giving me a chance.
Interesting reflective statement from a 5e player.
I agree with the post. I don’t want game night to be a second job or a mental investment. I just want to show up and play something. And I don’t want to grind away figuring out how to play optimally, or wait for others to do so. I just want to dungeon crawl and hit things with my sword and do some light occasional RP.
Okay, but you can only do that stuff because other people are picking up your slack.
If they are at a full table of people who do not want to play that way, maybe. But if this person is at a table of people with similar attitudes, with a GM who enjoys that kind of vibe, there is no slack to be picked up, no group feeling of “why isn’t this person contributing” and resentment.
No, there absolutely IS slack to be picked up. It’s by the DM. You get to have that fun, relaxed dungeon crawl because the DM busted their ass making it happen. Any work you put into your character’s backstory is work the DM doesn’t have to do themselves.
And it’s not a resentment thing. It’s fun to work on an adventure and balance things. I know, I like doing it myself. But don’t assume that just because YOU aren’t doing the work, nobody’s doing any work.
I never said I’m like this. I think you are just assuming I am because I am defending a type of player you don’t like instead of agreeing with you, therefore I must be that type of player if I am willing to speak up in contradiction and potentially risk disapproval.
Explicitly noted that in my first reply to you because I’m aware the GM is a player too. There would indeed be slack if the GM didn’t like it, but like I said earlier, if they like this vibe then it’s not really a problem… I simply want to argue that this attitude is not going to always be a problem because I imagine there are tables where all people, including the GM, enjoy it. And it seems as if you think this attitude is always a problem. It is only a problem if someone at the table has a problem with it. Some people enjoy games with vibes that others would absolutely hate. Beer and pretzels TTRPG is just as valid as serious roleplay TTRPG, and with both types you have to make sure everyone there is happy to play it that way.
(There technically would be slack because a lot of people will argue that even the most invested, full “I am optimizing and going full roleplay” player is putting in less work than the GM. I also doubt that’s what you’re referring to.)
If you’re going to reply to me, at least pay attention to what I said.
At no point did I demonise casual styles of play. Beer and pretzels is a legitimate way to play, and it can be a ton of fun. If the point of the game is just to have some fun with a bunch of friends, you don’t need them to deliver monologues. They can just be there, rolling dice and making puns.
The more you invest into a campaign, the less work on the DM. Conversely, the less you invest into a campaign, the more work on the DM. And if the DM is fine with that, no problem!
But don’t for a second think that the dungeon just formed itself. Don’t think that all the combat encounters are a fun challenge for your unbalanced party by pure luck. Don’t assume this world is full of fun hooks for your character by random chance. And don’t assume that, just because the work was fun, it wasn’t work.
Don’t assume that spilling food on the carpet isn’t causing more work for the cleaners. Don’t assume your mother, who cooks as a hobby, wouldn’t delight at you offering to help peel potatoes at thanksgiving.
Don’t assume that, just because the DM picked up the slack, there is no slack.
It’s not casual play I condemn. It’s people who don’t appreciate the DM for working hard to make casual play happen.
I can make one case for people like that: if it’s a paid game. I can tolerate people like that because if I don’t get their emotional investment in the game, at least I got paid. Not that I would invite them to play another session, of course, because there are a lot of better people out there.
I am really confused here, because I did read everything you said.
The way I interpreted your reply to the user Bye was that you felt more casual play always means putting an undesired extra burden on others, and thus the only valid way to play is the opposite style. Especially because the tone I read from your reply was kind of aggressive. It seems I misinterpreted you, and I am glad you do not have a problem with that kind of play.
I actually wasn’t aware of this, I figured the less you invest, the more a DM might pull back and also prep less in detail, do less intensive character backstory stuff, etc. Because the players are not going to go all-in on everything, the DM doesn’t have to prepare accordingly. I take it my assumption is wrong, and I’m curious why less investment on the player side, if already anticipated by the DM, results in a greater burden on them.
I would think by me talking about the importance of a GM’s happiness and the part about how you could argue everyone always puts in less than the GM, I am already fully aware of the work a GM does. I am also writing this paragraph assuming you’re telling me, specifically, not to assume, and I do hope I’m wrong and you just mean it as a general point.
It’s interesting, because actually this part is one of the reason why I don’t play D&D. Everytime I try a D&D game, It’s quickly think about how to spend your XP wisely because you’re impacting a whole progression tree, and if you choose the right feats you’d get a combo or whatever and then the whole combat looks quite intimidating when you start thinking how the party should work to be the most efficient at overcoming an challenge.
While tons of other RPG are more like sit down at the table, have a laid back chat with NPC, and sometimes roll a couple of dice.
I don’t say that your point of view or way to play is wrong, but find interesting that your premise to play D&D is my premise to not to play D&D
I’m the same except I’d rather avoid action as much as possible. I know it’s technically another RP opportunity, but my brain turns off as soon we start ruffling pages and rolling dice. A session with like 3 dice rolls, just to throw in a little randomness, is my ideal