Lemmy is cool and mainstream now bucko. Have you seen the amount of shit posts on your front page lately? If not, congrats, you’ve curated your feed about as much as you probably already did on reddit too lol.
Because fuck them, that’s why. Nobody, not a single person, is out there trying to make AI that will make the lives of average humans more livable. 100% of it is for corporate profit. Oh yeah, they’re gonna replace your job. And then where do you think your income will come from? It won’t. Come from anywhere. You’ll just be out of a job, no longer able to afford rent or food, but don’t worry because for a brief moment, they really maximized shareholder value. In the short term at least. And that’s all that matters anymore right?
I don’t want to: not only work directly toward that goal, but also do it for free. There isn’t much you or I could do to stop this shit short of revolting, but if enough people were to fuck with Captchas, it would absolutely have an impact on the rate at which this tech is ruining our lives.
I don’t want to do a job that a machine would do better than me.
And then where do you think your income will come from? It won’t. Come from anywhere. You’ll just be out of a job, no longer able to afford rent or food, but don’t worry because for a brief moment, they really maximized shareholder value.
Yeah, that’s my problem, and, on a broader scale, society’s problem. When enough people get hungry, things will have to change. The alternative is…doing pointless labor that a machine could do better, just to prop up a failed system. Forced inefficiency. How depressing is that?
Well if the two options I have are: continue being able to afford to live while doing a job that can now be done by a machine, or to just let it happen with zero safety net and let the good vibes from the naive optimism of “if enough people go hungry, then things will have to change.” I know what I’m choosing and I’m sure that will be a great comfort in that time
Those are not your two options. Society will have to reform from technological pressure. Political activism, such as lobbying for a universal basic income, is part of this.
Trying to fight progress just so you can keep your shitty job helps neither you nor society. That energy would be better spent on a future that’s better for everybody.
It seems as though maybe you haven’t studied capitalism or, I dunno, the history of human society?
Those are the two options, because the things you are talking about takes generations to change, if they evevr do at all. Millions of people will starve to death and die in the streets before anything real ever has a chance of possibly changing.
And no, I’m not personally worried about my job. At least not within my lifetime. But imagine caring about other people…
You’re not doing work for free. That’s a really weird way to look at it. You’re doing it to gain access to a service, an entirely optional one. It’s somewhat believable when people say oh, yes I have a car but I have to have a car, I’d like not to. But nobody is required to use GMail to live.
And yes, feel free to be an AI pessimist. You could quite well be right. It seems bizarre to me however to make an effort to sabotage this one specific AI training (which might stop cars from running us down) so that you can log into something which will also be used to train AI (to sell you shit). And then posting your opinion about it here, where it will be used to train an AI.
I feel like you think you just came up with something truly groundbreaking, “You criticize society yet you live in society. Curious.” You have to believe me when I say you haven’t.
… I don’t see how you can genuinely have understood that to be a point I was making. That’s the opposite of what I was saying. I even gave an example of how you might be forced to drive a car. Because you are in fact forced to live in society. But you are here on Lemmy so you must understand that you are not forced to use Gmail? So either you’re being disingenuous or you’re not actually reading all of what I’m posting. Given how you completely ignored the majority of my other post and went straight to “oH sO iF wE dO iT fOr 20 yEaRs”, I’m going with the latter.
The data collected from these tools are used to train models that detect cars and stuff with precise accuracy. Decades of data from millions of users each day. Once these are perfected, they will be sold to smart car users as auto-driving mode and what not. These services are likely going to be subscription based to maximize the profits.
Sorry I’m not sure “why?” is a difficult question. People keep explaining that is happening as if this hasn’t been happening in various forms for 20 years.
If its “I don’t want to contribute to machine learning”, I’ve got exciting news for you about every post you are making on this site where every comment is publicly accessible and consumable.
I just don’t think many of us believe that, “it’s been happening in various forms for 20 years” is an acceptable reason to continue doing or accepting something.
You act as if Captchas themselves weren’t created to prevent corporations from gaming the system. Like you do realize that the only reason that “every post you are making on this site blahblah” is because corporations just had to exploit the system for profit at the expense of literally everyone. Captchas don’t exist because a handful of clever coders made bots that were able to skim some profits from Google. It’s because corporations turned that into a billion dollar business. Capitalism ruins everything it wraps it’s putrid tendrils around.
So yeah, no. “You’ve been doing it already for 20 years” doesn’t cut it for me.
The 20 years thing was my bafflement as to why people felt the need to explain what Captchas are. Not a justification for their existence. When I ask “why” I think I’m pretty clearly not asking to have how Captchas work explained to me.
Putting that aside, can you explain to me how asking you to identify a traffic light is “at the expense of literally everyone”?
Someone was saying “they’ll train smart cars! And sell it to us as a subscription!” which I think is the same route you’re going down. But… how is that at the expense of everyone? And would not training smart cars benefit anyone? Is someone else going to do it? Is there a FOSS smart car I can contribue to? And is that FOSS going to prevent bad actors from training it to misbehave?
I’m almost certainly older than you, but I’m still interested to hear how deliberately answering Captchas incorrectly saves time over answering them correctly.
Because assuming you are human is not so much about the correctest of selections as much as it’s about moving the cursor around the screen in imprecise, non robotic, humanly ways.
These are actually self taught for what is right, based on what most people click, do just for shits n giggs he’s talking about peppering the data used for verification with incorrect responses.
Why?
To fuck with the training data. But don’t worry, most of the time it accepts it anyways.
That’s what he’s doing. Not why he’s doing it?
I’d assume it’s because they don’t want to hand out free labor.
You are on Lemmy asking why would anybody fuck with Google?
Lemmy is cool and mainstream now bucko. Have you seen the amount of shit posts on your front page lately? If not, congrats, you’ve curated your feed about as much as you probably already did on reddit too lol.
The lolz.
Or to slow the inevitable AI takeover of society.
Is it going to put a lot of… traffic light recognisers out of work?
Are you for real?
Yes. If you count taxi drivers, lorry drivers, bus drivers, delivery drivers.
I think mostly it’ll be the first option though, and a happy feeling from “sticking it to the man”.
Because fuck them, that’s why. Nobody, not a single person, is out there trying to make AI that will make the lives of average humans more livable. 100% of it is for corporate profit. Oh yeah, they’re gonna replace your job. And then where do you think your income will come from? It won’t. Come from anywhere. You’ll just be out of a job, no longer able to afford rent or food, but don’t worry because for a brief moment, they really maximized shareholder value. In the short term at least. And that’s all that matters anymore right?
I don’t want to: not only work directly toward that goal, but also do it for free. There isn’t much you or I could do to stop this shit short of revolting, but if enough people were to fuck with Captchas, it would absolutely have an impact on the rate at which this tech is ruining our lives.
I don’t want to do a job that a machine would do better than me.
Yeah, that’s my problem, and, on a broader scale, society’s problem. When enough people get hungry, things will have to change. The alternative is…doing pointless labor that a machine could do better, just to prop up a failed system. Forced inefficiency. How depressing is that?
Well if the two options I have are: continue being able to afford to live while doing a job that can now be done by a machine, or to just let it happen with zero safety net and let the good vibes from the naive optimism of “if enough people go hungry, then things will have to change.” I know what I’m choosing and I’m sure that will be a great comfort in that time
Those are not your two options. Society will have to reform from technological pressure. Political activism, such as lobbying for a universal basic income, is part of this.
Trying to fight progress just so you can keep your shitty job helps neither you nor society. That energy would be better spent on a future that’s better for everybody.
It seems as though maybe you haven’t studied capitalism or, I dunno, the history of human society?
Those are the two options, because the things you are talking about takes generations to change, if they evevr do at all. Millions of people will starve to death and die in the streets before anything real ever has a chance of possibly changing.
And no, I’m not personally worried about my job. At least not within my lifetime. But imagine caring about other people…
You’re not doing work for free. That’s a really weird way to look at it. You’re doing it to gain access to a service, an entirely optional one. It’s somewhat believable when people say oh, yes I have a car but I have to have a car, I’d like not to. But nobody is required to use GMail to live.
And yes, feel free to be an AI pessimist. You could quite well be right. It seems bizarre to me however to make an effort to sabotage this one specific AI training (which might stop cars from running us down) so that you can log into something which will also be used to train AI (to sell you shit). And then posting your opinion about it here, where it will be used to train an AI.
I feel like you think you just came up with something truly groundbreaking, “You criticize society yet you live in society. Curious.” You have to believe me when I say you haven’t.
… I don’t see how you can genuinely have understood that to be a point I was making. That’s the opposite of what I was saying. I even gave an example of how you might be forced to drive a car. Because you are in fact forced to live in society. But you are here on Lemmy so you must understand that you are not forced to use Gmail? So either you’re being disingenuous or you’re not actually reading all of what I’m posting. Given how you completely ignored the majority of my other post and went straight to “oH sO iF wE dO iT fOr 20 yEaRs”, I’m going with the latter.
The data collected from these tools are used to train models that detect cars and stuff with precise accuracy. Decades of data from millions of users each day. Once these are perfected, they will be sold to smart car users as auto-driving mode and what not. These services are likely going to be subscription based to maximize the profits.
Not to mention that they’ll probably be used by cops to profile people long before then…
Profile people as… traffic lights?
You’re being overly literal, but…maybe that too? 🤷
Yes?
Sorry I’m not sure “why?” is a difficult question. People keep explaining that is happening as if this hasn’t been happening in various forms for 20 years.
If its “I don’t want to contribute to machine learning”, I’ve got exciting news for you about every post you are making on this site where every comment is publicly accessible and consumable.
I just don’t think many of us believe that, “it’s been happening in various forms for 20 years” is an acceptable reason to continue doing or accepting something.
You act as if Captchas themselves weren’t created to prevent corporations from gaming the system. Like you do realize that the only reason that “every post you are making on this site blahblah” is because corporations just had to exploit the system for profit at the expense of literally everyone. Captchas don’t exist because a handful of clever coders made bots that were able to skim some profits from Google. It’s because corporations turned that into a billion dollar business. Capitalism ruins everything it wraps it’s putrid tendrils around.
So yeah, no. “You’ve been doing it already for 20 years” doesn’t cut it for me.
The 20 years thing was my bafflement as to why people felt the need to explain what Captchas are. Not a justification for their existence. When I ask “why” I think I’m pretty clearly not asking to have how Captchas work explained to me.
Putting that aside, can you explain to me how asking you to identify a traffic light is “at the expense of literally everyone”?
Someone was saying “they’ll train smart cars! And sell it to us as a subscription!” which I think is the same route you’re going down. But… how is that at the expense of everyone? And would not training smart cars benefit anyone? Is someone else going to do it? Is there a FOSS smart car I can contribue to? And is that FOSS going to prevent bad actors from training it to misbehave?
I guess you don’t value your time, but maybe as you get older you will learn to value it more.
I’m almost certainly older than you, but I’m still interested to hear how deliberately answering Captchas incorrectly saves time over answering them correctly.
What? Why?
I mean if you think about it, you’re doing unpaid labor to prove you’re a human.
Is that a reason not to do it?
Obviously.
Might not be for you, but for them it seems to be
Because assuming you are human is not so much about the correctest of selections as much as it’s about moving the cursor around the screen in imprecise, non robotic, humanly ways.
These are actually self taught for what is right, based on what most people click, do just for shits n giggs he’s talking about peppering the data used for verification with incorrect responses.