• ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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      9 months ago

      They’ve not been a left wing party since Kinnock, except for the brief Corbyn years. This just seems like a return to Blairite business as usual.

      • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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        9 months ago

        Clearly not a popular opinion on the internet but… Blairite business as usual is actually winning elections and getting a chance to enact reforms as opposed to preaching to the choir with no influence.

        I really do hope we get over this idea that if you’re not a direct descendant of Arthur Scargill himself then you’re some sort of right wing pariah. Starmer (or Blair / Brown) might not be to people’s liking but they’re far from the right wing nutters we have had in power for the last fourteen years.

        I hope people are realistic and understand that we need at least a parliament to put into place plans to undo the damage the Conservatives have done. Nothing is instant, nothing is cheap.

        Edit: Freudian typo.

        • flamingos-cant@ukfli.uk
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          9 months ago

          It amazing that this “you might not like him, but suck it up to get rid of the Tories” attitude wasn’t present when Corbyn was leader. No, it was an endless tide of infighting, coups and splintering. How are we suppose to take these pleas to get rid of the Tories seriously after watching the Labour Right do everything in its power to hand the Tories the last two elections?

          • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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            9 months ago

            A Labour leader needs to appeal to more than simply the hard line left crowd in the Labour party. Corbyn was never electable outside of North London and a handful of university campuses. Not in any serious way at least. That’s why he got battered in both elections he contested.

            Labour need someone that appeals to their party (or most of it) plus they need someone that appeals to voters outside their party. Corbyn night have done the first, but he failed miserably at the latter. Blair did both crushingly well. I hope Starmer does both (but he’s trying his hardest to fuck up both parts).

            I will agree with you that the public infighting within Labour didn’t help. But I don’t pretend that Corbyn was the right candidate for a Labour government.

            • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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              9 months ago

              A Labour leader needs to appeal to more than simply the hard line left crowd in the Labour party. Corbyn was never electable outside of North London and a handful of university campuses. Not in any serious way at least. That’s why he got battered in both elections he contested.

              I was enthusiastic to see Corbyn in power but then it came to the general election and they kept announcing one ambitious thing after the next. I was largely in favour of them but I was still thinking “what are you playing at?” as they’d have cost a fortune and there was no evidence of where all the money would come from. And if I thought that, it’s no wonder other people were scared off.

            • Devi@kbin.social
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              9 months ago

              Corbyn was never electable outside of North London and a handful of university campuses.

              I can’t agree with this. He was vastly popular in a lot of areas, I’m very much not a londoner and well out of university and heard a lot of support.

              The thing to realise I believe, is that most voters are easily swayed and not vastly invested. That leads to an environment where whoever the tabloids like gets in regardless. Tabloids are mostly run by very rich people who are never going to support wealth taxes, closing of loopholes, restraints on business, etc.

              If the Sun, Mirror and Daily Mail put out a front page tomorrow saying they were supporting the green party then they’d get in.

              • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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                9 months ago

                Popular doesn’t relate to electable. Corbyn’s 2019 election decimation would suggest to that.

                I also don’t believe that the electorate is that stupid to be swayed by newspapers. For sure, there’s stupid voters - I get that. But I think most people didn’t connect with his vision for the future which was essentially “we’ll be your best friend and not Tories”. It was a bit wishy washy which didn’t connect with the electorate.

                His stance (non stance) on Brexit was also a massive failure of his administration. He wanted to be everyone’s Brexit friend - friend of leavers friend of remainers just lend him your vote and pretend it didn’t happen. Labour massively shit the bed with the Brexit question. Incoherent and lacklustre policy.

                • Devi@kbin.social
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                  9 months ago

                  But 2017 saw the biggest labour swing since 1945, which is way more than Blair managed. That’s very electable.

                  Not sure how you can diminish the newspaper influence either, it’s pretty well documented. If you talk to the average person they don’t know the policies at all.

            • flamingos-cant@ukfli.uk
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              9 months ago

              I really don’t get your position. You keep asserting that Starmer is “electable,” but here you acknowledge that his action are alienating to both people within the party and outside of it.

              The only thing Starmer has going for him is extreme luck. If Boris hadn’t fucked up Covid so bad and made the Tories so unpopular, I doubt Starmer would have the capabilities to win this election.

              • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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                9 months ago

                I really don’t get your position. You keep asserting that Starmer is "electable

                I think I’ve been saying in all these posts that Corbyn in unelectable rather than Starmer is electable. 😂😂.

          • wewbull@feddit.uk
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            9 months ago

            I do wonder, given it was “antisemitism” that finally sunk Corbyn, how he’d do now. Critising Israel is no longer a problem. Infact large segments of society are calling for a far more critical stance on Israel and its actions.

            • anytimesoon@feddit.uk
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              9 months ago

              It would have just been something else. Antisemitism is just the one that stuck, but if that hadn’t worked they would have kept trying to put people off one way or another.

              As much as Corbin had decent ideas, his handling of the press was abysmal

              • RobotToaster@mander.xyzOP
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                9 months ago

                To me, Corbyn’s problem was being too nice. When the party needed an old fashioned Stalinist purge of Blairites he made the arch Blairite his Brexit secretary.

                When Blair purged socialists from the party he rejected calls for Corbyn to be expelled, because he didn’t consider him a threat, you should always learn from your opponents’ mistakes.

            • steeznson@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              He had quite a lot of problems. Most seemed to stem from the way that he seemingly seemed to side against the West in any international dispute, which is suboptimal in a prime ministerial candidate. Those views also led to him sharing platforms with some questionable people.

              • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de
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                9 months ago

                Yeah and in a similar vein he’s a huge contrarian in a huge number of areas - it seems like if he didn’t have a strong opinion on something he just went against the status quo on it regardless of how illogical that was, which in my opinion at least is a pretty poor trait for someone who literally has control over the status quo

        • *Tagger*@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I’m so glad to see someone else saying this. On the left, we seem so concerned with our ‘perfect’ candidature that we lose elections and let Tory whack jobs run the country.

          Let’s get Starmer into power as he’ll be a damn sight better than Sunak and then we can work within the party to move things even further left.

          • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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            9 months ago

            Let’s get Starmer into potter

            This wasn’t the ending I expected but I’m all up for seeing this. Would have to do it after the watershed though. To keep the children safe, you understand?

          • trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            > Starmer gets into power

            > Everything in the UK stays business as usual.

            > Starmer doesn’t do anything about it because he’s basically a moderate tory

            > Tories win all elections for the next 20 years anyway.

            Edit: I am glad you agree

            • *Tagger*@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              I massively disagree with everything you have said after your first full stop. Anyone who thinks Starmer is equivalent to Boris or Rishi can’t have been paying much attention to quite how horrific those two have been.

        • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Blair times, apart from the war that killed a million odd people were good times in the UK. at least in retrospect

          • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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            9 months ago

            Agreed.

            And Clinton’s years in office were pretty good for the US too apart from the time he took advantage of his position of power and sexually assaulted that intern in the White House. Swings and roundabouts.

        • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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          9 months ago

          Clearly not a popular opinion on the internet but… Blairite business as usual is actually winning elections and getting a chance to reject reforms as opposed to preaching to the choir with no influence.

          Oh indeed. I have one priority and that is to get the Tories out and keep them out as long as possible. If I have to hold my nose and vote Labour then I’ll do it and if tactical voting said the Lib Dems had a better chance then I’d jump at that.

          Apparently, one of the local councillors who resigned drinks in my local. If I see her I am unsure if I’ll applaud her for sticking to her principles or if I’ll suggest she should have got her head down and focused on keeping the Tories out.

          I can only hope that Starmer’s plan is to keep his head down and not provide ammunition for the Tory press, letting the Conservatives shoot themselves in the foot (it seems to be working). Then when he is elected with a massive majority he feels confident in trying more ambitious projects. If not, he’ll just be John the Baptist to Andy Burnham, and I am fine with that.

        • RobotToaster@mander.xyzOP
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          9 months ago

          Blairite business as usual is actually winning elections and getting a chance to reject reforms

          I’m not sure if “reject” was a typo, but it seems accurate.

          Blairism is what gave us disastrous PFIs in the NHS.

          • mannycalavera@feddit.uk
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            9 months ago

            Oh lord how embarrassing. Hahaha. It was a typo. Enact. Enact is what I was going for.

            True PFI was half baked implementation wise. But the other reforms Blair’s government made have had lasting impacts and have stood the tests of time. We wouldn’t want to be without those.

  • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Complete non-entities given a story on a non-entity website.

    Why do you keep posting stories from this utter shite?

    • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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      9 months ago

      We’ve had news on Labour councillors stepping down before and the Morning Star is a well-known left-wing source of news. I don’t see a problem with this

      • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Two councillors stepping down in an area where they would vote for a donkey if it wore a red rosette is not a story.

        I doubt many people in Sefton itself could name these two. Yet it’s supposed to be of national interest?

        • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.uk
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          9 months ago

          I doubt many people in Sefton itself could name these two.

          How many people know the councillors from their neighbouring wards unless they are a council bigwig? Personally, I didn’t know one of them but I voted the other one in.

          The significance is that this is coming on the back of other councillors stepping down last week and a slow trickle of resignations over the last few months. Individually, it might not be a big deal but it is part of a larger trend that is worth reporting on.

    • flamingos-cant@ukfli.uk
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      9 months ago

      You consider two councillors that make decisions for just under 300K people to be non-entities? What does someone have to be to be worth reporting on for you?

      • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Councillors represent wards within that area. These two probably represent about 10k-ish people each?

        • RobotToaster@mander.xyzOP
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          9 months ago

          The majority group in a council usually forms the cabinet, which makes most local decisions for an area.