Rewrite: September 2024
Welcome one and all to BestOfLemmy! The goal of this community is “manual curation”. Please post good (or best!!) posts you find around Lemmy, highlighting the discussions, communities, and people that make up the Lemmyverse.
There are two rules: Manual Curation and beginner-to-lemmy focus. Please share content on Lemmy that helps introduce Lemmy to newbies!
Don’t make automatic bots or algorithms make your pick here. Although its fair game to use bots / algorithms / search engines to look for content, the ultimate decision to post must be made by you. Aside from that, have fun!
EDIT: Discussion in this Welcome Thread is extremely loose. Its important for any community to have a place for freeform discussion, including meta-criticism and wandering off topic, so that individuals are free to express yourself. I won’t be moderating this topic as much as other posts however. Still feel free to report posts that cross the line, but comments here specifically are intended to be more freeform.
I’ll just leave it be. Honestly the whole situation took on a life of it’s own. I expected like 1 or 2 people having the same experience. Not a 880 comment megathread lol
It has become a rite of passage: people go down into the den of iniquity, and most emerge on the other side, having learned from the experience?
What’s weird is how if you go into ChapoTrapHouse and read the depictions of such events from “the other side”, almost universally what I see is that they blame the victim - as in, ‘they wandered into our space and dared to speak about what they only thought they knew’. Setting aside how someone is supposed to know something that they thought they already did, it is simply not logical to look down on someone for ignorance - willful ignorance yes, b/c that’s just another phrase for obstinacy, but every single one of us is ignorant all the time, right up until the very moment in time that we no longer are? So anyway, it seems to me to be a labelling issue - they are proud of acting like jerks, and it would help if every new member of the Fediverse did not have to discover this the hard way, as you (& I) did.
Seriously those, those Innuendo Studios videos - they are quite “extra”, in the most delicious of ways. I hope you enjoy them:-) - they were fully game-changing for me in terms of how I thought of such people, who only play at logical argumentation without really knowing what it is. Once you know that, everything becomes seen in a different light.
They also apparently shared my post on The Dunk Tank and they doing about the same. They can dish it out, but not take it
It would be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic. This is the mindset that elected Trump, and may yet do so again. i.e. what you say is not half as relevant as who is saying it - e.g. genocide done by Russia or China is perfectly fine - and they cannot begin to see the flaws in that line of reasoning.
But… historically they helped fund the creation of Lemmy, so… I guess genocide done by Russia or China is perfectly fine after all, at least fine for them to say, and for their posts to show up in everyone’s feed by default. Or if they are somehow “not fine”, then I see no functional difference between how those two extremes are treated.
Tbf, people are trying to improve things, slowly, over time - e.g. the instance admin of sh.itjust.works said that they would automatically user block hexbear.net for all newly created accounts, then send them a PM explaining the process to unblock them. I don’t know if that’s implemented yet, but that’s awesome! Really it harms nobody’s ability to read whatever they want, but makes going to such places as Chapotraphouse be opt-in rather than out, which seems to match the preferences of most users of the Fediverse - though as you discovered, not all.
I suspect that when they notice that a substantial proportion of their moderator actions must be taken against people who choose to remove that block… perhaps they may reconsider their position on the level of the entire instance (for the same reason that US anti-terrorist agencies are far more worried about domestic than foreign actions for the last several years - bc if “winning” is literally the only thing that matters to someone…). But that’s their business, and anyway the user block solves a great deal of the problem in the short term, so I for one was ecstatic to read that. But, that’s just one instance, and there are hundreds if not thousands more.
I first thought that if they helped fund Lemmy, then I’d rather not be here much longer to support their accomplishment, but also I own a Volkswagon so it’d be very hypocritical of me to do that. I agree that we just work on making Lemmy better and they lose power of their own chaos
I almost left the Fediverse myself after stumbling across them - talking with such people is not what I wanted to spend my time and attention on. Fortunately Kbin.social that I had been on prior to it going defunct and my switching to Lemmy did not promote their posts so heavily (it had, and its fork Mbin still has, its own internal voting system, so its sorting algorithms ignore “upvotes” from the Fediverse and pays attention instead to “favorites” from only other Mbin/Kbin instances, probably for precisely this reason). So I knew that the Fediverse could be better.
The problem is: nobody that I recommend it to irl realizes that - they see the variety of posts from e.g. [email protected], and think “this is what Lemmy is”, and they drop it never to return. And how can I argue otherwise? I myself would rather leave it entirely than put up with constantly having posts promoted everywhere you look from the likes of Donald Trump, Elon Musk, or the same style from hexbear even if they call it “leftist”. This, along with the lack of technical development (compared to e.g. Reddit), are the chief impediments to growth that I can see.
But things are steadily improving - e.g. we can do instance blocks now, and e.g. PieFed and Sublinks are coming to join with Mbin and Tesseract to offer alternative codebases to just Lemmy on the Fediverse, which like Kbin’s alternative voting scheme may offer solutions to some of the current issues. Therefore as long as I can enjoy sane conversations, e.g. this one with you:-), I will stick with the Fediverse, as it evolves moving forward.
You got made fun of once and can’t seem to let it go, from reading the mod log they seemed confused by what you were even trying to say. The mod message was one of their “wtf” emojis
I feel bad about instance blocking though. Like I did it with HB and pre-emptively grad, but it just feels like I’m cutting a whole people off because a minority group pissed me off. I’ll probably give it a week or so and unblock the instances because there’s absolutely no way that everyone sucks there
First, do whatever you want - I am not here to tell you what to do:-). That is indeed a highly personal decision, and I for one will not begrudge you to pick either option that you feel will work best for you.
Second, I used to think similarly. I’m telling you, those Innuendo Studios videos will change everything about how you think in these terms. e.g. you simply cannot talk with Trump supporters, or hexbear members - they don’t even “use logic”, as a normal person would. Though they do use it like a 5-year-old toddler would: as a weapon, if they think they can gain advantage by making mouth-noises that attempt to sound somewhat vaguely like it. It’s fucking exhausting to constantly analyze, decide, and attempt to respond (or not) to such - especially when their favorite trick is to “control the conversation”, by ignoring whatever you actually said and instead pivot it over to some other matter entirely (but only until they sense that they can’t win that way, and then they’ll switch strategies entirely on-the-fly) - and quite frankly ain’t nobody got time for dat nonsense, imho. But again, ofc you should free to do whatever you want…
I do want to warn you though that it is a fundamental principle of the world/universe that people automatically start to become more like those that you surround yourself with - e.g. even if you wanted to stop drinking alcohol, if you surround yourself with friends whose major activity is to talk at a bar, then it would become difficult to hold that line… (note I myself drink alcohol all the time, and just a few weeks ago visited a friend, ofc our first instincts were to meet at a happy hour, it just makes financial sense and is fun!.. - so anyway I’m not trying to offer any judgement there, just illustrate the principle that if someone were to decide against it, that would be difficult to maintain in the face of others who continually make the exact opposite decision).
And I did not like what Reddit was doing to me. I was being more snarky, more contentious, more pedantic, less kind, less considerate of others’ opinions, etc. I started to worry that it would affect my relationships at my new job. Reddit has a… “culture” that is quite well-known for being that way. And we may think that it won’t affect us - but it will. Maybe if I had already had established relationships with these new people, but I did not, and these “new” ones, the first after I found and joined Reddit, seemed vulnerable to my having had to interact with so many Reddi-trolls (as a mod of a couple small gaming subs over there).
Third, I never said that “everyone sucks there” - for any of those instances. Though like Reddit, there are… known patterns of behaviors, that most of them display. Once or twice is indeed an outlier - and given enough time we will see people from every instance do something to piss us off (unless the instance is extremely tiny; also maybe someone is just having a bad day, so their behavior not only does not reflect their entire instance but even themselves, usually?) but when you see something like >50-90% of the people from an instance doing the precise same thing, it most definitely becomes a “pattern”.
You asked a question, and got >800 responses, most saying that you were not imagining things: there really is a very noticeable “pattern” of behavior that people have come to expect from them. If you want to ignore those responses and… “enjoy” your time with them, then go ahead. I tried the same, with users of lemmy.ml. But if it helps to hear my story, eventually I got over it, just blocked them all, and I have not regretted that once since. Yes I do miss out on some posts from those communities - but I still see posts from people from those instances on other communities that I am subscribed to, and also likewise comment replies to me, so note that a user-block is really a pathetically un-powerful, soft thing, unlike full, hard, strict defederation.
For an example, you need look no further than the other reply to my previous message, where they said:
I can still see it, I just don’t get a “notification” for it, each time they ignore my consent and decide to (attempt to) push their thoughts at me regardless. Btw, if it helps YOU, I will explain what they are attempting to do here: first, they try to pin the blame on me as if I am the one being unreasonable (the very first word starts with YOU, as an attempt to speak in a confident tone of voice, as is proper for such an accusation), also they ignore how (as I said many, MANY times) people would continually respond to me, days and days and days and days and days and WEEKS later (i.e., my response is one thing, but who was it that first started the whole having a hard time “letting something go”?:-P). Ignoring my consent is considered “abusive” behavior, in most parts of the world. Also, I totally forgot about the incident that they are referring to, but this person, in their reply, conveniently entirely ignores that other events than that have occurred. e.g. I mentioned an incident saying something about Biden v. gas prices, whereas this incident says nothing about Biden, nothing about gas prices, nothing about inflation, therefore this must be the only incident that has ever happened, and MUST be what I was talking about… right? 🤪 I like to think that even as a 5-year-old toddler, I would not fall into such an extremely obvious logical fallacy as this, to presume that I know everything, when in fact it is painfully obvious that this person is talking out of their ass. So should I respond to them - and to everyone else that wants to take a go at me as well, for daring to say that e.g. Biden lowered gas prices? Or am I simply not allowed to speak of Biden, or perhaps it’s rather the topic of gas prices, or inflation, that is forbidden to ever speak of - unless ofc I happen to agree with their POV? And is that like… ever, or only on their own instance, or perhaps wherever their instance name gets brought up - what are the rules here? Moreover, why are they the ones making those rules, and constantly shifting them whenever it suits them? And why is Russia=good, America=bad, rather than oh say genocide (whoever does it)=bad, and capitalism=bad too, but what other options do we even have (derp… Russia is capitalistic too…).
Also, if I were to respond, what manner of nonsensical “logic”(al fallacies) would I subsequently be presented with, in their next reply? I came to the Fediverse to enjoy reasoned discourse… but in the above paragraph, notice how argumentative I became? Less kind, less considerate, more argumentative, more pedantic… see the pattern? I will spell it out just to make it crystal clear: it is Reddit all over again, which I tried to leave behind, but on Lemmy.ml and far more the other two Big Three instances, I continually find that it is here on the Fediverse as well - though not equally distributed. I tend to not have such a form of… shall we call them “low-effort” exchanges with someone from most other instances, e.g. lemm.ee or sh.itjust.works, and if the opportunity does ever present itself, it is trivially easy enough to block just one person and move on with my life. But it is fucking exhausting to try to keep up with the constant barrage of such, so when I start noticing these extremely obvious patterns like 98-99% observations of trolling behavior coming from accounts located on one of the Big Three instances, yeah the opportunity to stop virtually all of it with a handful of keystrokes and clicks was too tempting to pass up. And you’ve seen it yourself, but anyway, choose to not block them if you want, though I made my choice to do so. It is good to have choices to pick from:-).
What are your goals, that you hope to accomplish by being here on the Fediverse? It is something to ponder anyway, and when you are able to answer that, then you should find your answer much more readily, as to whether not blocking those instances will help you attain your goals.
How is it ignoring your consent if I have no way of telling if you’ve blocked my instance or not?
Maybe you should write a few more rambling paragraphs complaining, you bring up the tactic of diversions, but it’s really just projection as you’re a flagrant user of it yourself (writing lengthy paragraphs that never address the issue is one example). You never responded to my main point here
You made a huge wall of text with some claims not borne out by your links, did you even fully read what you were citing or did you skim looking for things to confirm your argument?
From you:
From the hexbear discussion:
Again quoting you:
The hexbear thread expressed the same rationale to block “shits fulla chuds” the fact that you characterize them as reasonable-minded people speaks volumes about you personally.
Just checking in with how someone from a marginalized community felt about this situation: https://hexbear.net/post/497935
I was ready to take you seriously but if you’re misrepresenting your very first points that’s a lot harder. You’ve been doing more than that, you’ve been inverting the actual history and in the process ommitted the actual options of marginalized people to suit your narrative.
quoting you again:
Hexbear is majority non-cis, and its weekly trans megatheads are extremely active. I already looked into this, they have done several polls, and have chatted with a number of them since I started moderating /c/transgender
Are you trying to imply that they’re bigots now? On what basis? If anything you’ve said enough to make me suspect you more than anyone else.
My goal is to have a chuckle or general discussion despite what side people are on. I believe light teasing of the other side (and even your own side) opens serious dialog because you are acknowledging your side is imperfect, just like the other side. If you tease the other side and take yourself too serious, then that’s bullying.
Second, and with all due respect, everything you say can be easily summarized. And please don’t misunderstand, I believe you’re absolutely right in everything you have said, and I appreciate your detail to make sure you’re not misunderstood. However, every comment has been an essay. That takes so much mental energy for you. I can respect the effort you put into your comments because, godamn, it takes a lot with how much work you put into them, truly kudos.
However, I see it as building a front page for a resume. If you put too much meat onto the plate, then they’re never going to eat the potatoes. You want a filet mignon with a baked potato. I absolutely mean no offense. Just wanted to say that you could say the same thing with less words